Spurs (12-3) at Celtics (9-6) Game #16 11/25/16

[jpotter33]

21-12 on fouls. Such horsecrap. There should be more ways for teams to hold refs accountable for games like this. Such BS.

The problem is there's nothing the league can or will do about it, and neither can individual teams.  Thus horrible officiating is only going to continue.

As bad as the refs were, the C's need to do better.  Like grab key rebounds for example.

Oh, that's very true. The refs were only one reason that we lost, along with stupid decision-making and just simply being too small to challenge them on the boards and defensively.

But still, there's got to be some sort of way to try and minimize these types of games. This wasn't a game where only C's fans could see a disparity. Even objective fans could see how poorly this game was officiated, and the foul and free throw counts justify this. Even something as simple as that unjustified T that Smart got when Gasol was shown way, way more leeway earlier in the game. That's stuff that absolutely can be remedied by more stringent regulation of the refs.

[max215]

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/802247335027867648

Matt Moore, national reporter who many believe to be biased against the C's (I don't). He's saying what virtually all of us are.

[kozlodoev]

The fact that we got schooled by the calcified remains of David Lee says it all, I think.

Sums the game up doesn't it?

Yeah. Sullinger sucked in many aspects, but the team didn't adequately replace what he brought on the boards.

[tarheelsxxiii]

The fact that we got schooled by the calcified remains of David Lee says it all, I think.

Yeah, anemic frontcourt.  We bruise easily.  Boxscore suggests Amir was chasing butterflies on the opposite end of the court, which is at least interesting..

[hwangjini_1]

The fact that we got schooled by the calcified remains of David Lee says it all, I think.

overly simplistic. overly pessimistic. the latter i expect from you. the former i dont.

[alldaboston]

Can't blame the refs.  This team as currently constructed can't compete for a title.  The Spurs can.

This has nothing to do with the game that was just played.

We play this team in the playoffs we get swept - with maybe one game being close.

great, i'd love to be in the NBA Finals!

[alldaboston]

21-12 on fouls. Such horsecrap. There should be more ways for teams to hold refs accountable for games like this. Such BS.

can we get a L2M report for this game? Was it a close enough game? I'm not sure about the rules for releasing those reports.

[Denis998]

Watching this game, it did not seem that rebounding was as big of an issue today. I feel like it only seems that way because of the late LMA rebound over Avery, at which point the game was already over.

[jpotter33]

Spurs outrebounded the C's 13-3 in the fourth quarter.

Brad needs to put a mandate onto Danny - get me some help in the big department. Even someone like Noel, who is due back any day now, would help us tremendously rather than being forced to play the corpse of Amir Johnson.

Noel might be an upgrade over Zeller rebounding wise, but he and Amir are very similar rebounders (Amir better offensive, Noel better defensive, roughly equal overall)

We need a good rebounder, not another average one

That may have been true prior to this year, but that's not nearly true this year. Amir has fallen off considerably, which is part of the problem. If he was as good as he was the last several years, then it wouldn't really be near as much of a problem as it is right now. When you compare the two now, there's no comparison with Noel being a much better rebounder.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Nerlens+Noel&player_id1_select=Nerlens+Noel&y1=2016&player_id1=noelne01&hint=Amir+Johnson&player_id2_select=Amir+Johnson&y2=2017&player_id2=johnsam01

             Noel 15-16     Amir 16-17

ORB%   8.2                 7.8

DRB%   22.2               13.5

TRB%    15.0               10.7

And that is Noel playing out of position at PF on an incredibly terrible team. It stands to reason that he'd only get better on the boards on a better team in the right position. He also provides great mobility and rim protection that we don't currently have outside of Horford.

So, yes, while Noel is not an elite rebounder, he is still a very good rebounder and would greatly benefit our team.

[kozlodoev]

The fact that we got schooled by the calcified remains of David Lee says it all, I think.

overly simplistic. overly pessimistic. the latter i expect from you. the former i dont.

I didn't watch the game, so I can't say more. But from what I've seen so far this season, rebounding is an issue. I had concerns about Horford's declining rebounding numbers, and while there was the odd chance that it was system-related in ATL, it seems to be more of the same with us, so while in many aspects he's an upgrade over Sullinger, that upgrade is not big enough to offset the fact that he can't clean up the glass. So right now we have 5 bigs in our rotation that can't rebound. And Jordan Mickey. Forgive me if I choose to be a bit pessimistic about that

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Watching this game, it did not seem that rebounding was as big of an issue today. I feel like it only seems that way because of the late LMA rebound over Avery, at which point the game was already over.

the rb was an issue because Lee had 7 offensive rbs ALONE, besides Horford none of the other bigs didn't have more than 3 rbs total and that was JJ who plays SF!!!

[jpotter33]

We took 10 more three pointers than them and were outrebounded by 10.  Most fouls happen when you attack the paint and mix it up inside.  Spurs are much bigger than us.  We settled for long range bombs and long jumpers that kept us out of the paint and limited our potential to draw fouls.  That's who our team is.  Don't whine about the foul disparity. Spurs are a better team. We should be proud we kept it close against one of the few real contenders in the league.  Nice game.  We still look like a solid 55 win team this year.

We also took 10 more overall shots than them, too, so in fact both teams took 57 two-pointers with them getting 9 more fouls. So your point isn't applicable here, and you just pretty much proved the point that they had an unfair shake on the fouls. Nice try, though. 

[BitterJim]

Spurs outrebounded the C's 13-3 in the fourth quarter.

Brad needs to put a mandate onto Danny - get me some help in the big department. Even someone like Noel, who is due back any day now, would help us tremendously rather than being forced to play the corpse of Amir Johnson.

Noel might be an upgrade over Zeller rebounding wise, but he and Amir are very similar rebounders (Amir better offensive, Noel better defensive, roughly equal overall)

We need a good rebounder, not another average one

That may have been true prior to this year, but that's not nearly true this year. Amir has fallen off considerably, which is part of the problem. If he was as good as he was the last several years, then it wouldn't really be near as much of a problem as it is right now. When you compare the two now, there's no comparison with Noel being a much better rebounder.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Nerlens+Noel&player_id1_select=Nerlens+Noel&y1=2016&player_id1=noelne01&hint=Amir+Johnson&player_id2_select=Amir+Johnson&y2=2017&player_id2=johnsam01

             Noel 15-16     Amir 16-17

ORB%   8.2                 7.8

DRB%   22.2               13.5

TRB%    15.0               10.7

And that is Noel playing out of position at PF on an incredibly terrible team. It stands to reason that he'd only get better on the boards on a better team in the right position. He also provides great mobility and rim protection that we don't currently have outside of Horford.

So, yes, while Noel is not an elite rebounder, he is still a very good rebounder and would greatly benefit our team.

I don't think it's really fair to compare Amir's small sample from thus year with Noel's large sample from last year, though. They're very close using last year's numbers from both (and obviously you can't compare this year's because Noel hasn't played)

[hwangjini_1]

The fact that we got schooled by the calcified remains of David Lee says it all, I think.

overly simplistic. overly pessimistic. the latter i expect from you. the former i dont.

I didn't watch the game, so I can't say more. But from what I've seen so far this season, rebounding is an issue. I had concerns about Horford's declining rebounding numbers, and while there was the odd chance that it was system-related in ATL, it seems to be more of the same with us, so while in many aspects he's an upgrade over Sullinger, that upgrade is not big enough to offset the fact that he can't clean up the glass. So right now we have 5 bigs in our rotation that can't rebound. And Jordan Mickey. Forgive me if I choose to be a bit pessimistic about that

good points and thanks for making them. some of the rebounds lost tonight are exactly as you write above. some were simply bad luck. but the underlying problem you mention is there nonetheless.

the celtics dont have to solve each and every woe in one season for two. better to be patient and get someone you really want instead of a so-so/slightly better player who would eat up salary cap and limit the team later.

if ainge doesnt get a good big man this year, i trust he will in the off season or draft.

oh, and a tp for the nice post above. thanks.

[Rosco917]

Marcus quickly becoming the best passer on the C's.

Refs were terrible, or this will be the new league standard when defending IT. Grab, push

Man...do we need either a real center, or another big with some talent.