New Marcus Smart comparison?

[LarBrd33]

He is what he is, methinks. 

I like him as a utility guy off the bench, 20-28 mpg, makes clutch defensive plays, good to have in a 5 man group so long as there are 2-3 scorers beside him. 

Not the kind of upside you'd like to see in a top 10 pick, but the 2014 lotto had plenty of less than super impressive guys.  Lots of teams passed on Zach Lavine.

Julius Randle is looking like a quality PF.  I think the Celts missed a good one there, but it's understandable why they didn't look that way at the time.

Oh well.  Smart's fun to have around.

Smart's a quality role player.  I'm not denying that.  But we need to get more than Tyron Lue esque "quality role player" from a #6 pick.   Had Smart been a late 1st, I'd be fine with this. 

I haven't given up on him yet.  It's still early in the season.  Need to see improvement soon, though.  There's several players taken after Smart that are starting to live up to their potential.  Not looking forward to the fall-out if this trend continues into mid season.

[LarBrd33]

His offense may never materialize into what we once all had hoped, but Marcus seems like the kind-of guy any coach would want on the floor for as much time as possible.  The term 'role player' seems to be getting thrown around pretty loosely in this thread. Are we just insinuating that if a player does not become a star that he is automatically a role player?

Marcus is a selfless player who does anything to win. Lumping in him in with the Tyronn Lues of the world seems a little disingenuous. He is a unique player and I am happy to have him.

That was my exact sentiment when I saw it. Smart already does things at more elite level than Lue ever did in his entire career. If we wanted to compare him with players like Bowen and Allen that were at least elite at one thing that makes a bit more sense than the horrible misguided and flat out embarrassing Lue comparison.

I agree that it's embarrassing a #6 pick in a loaded draft can reasonably be compared to Tyronn Lue.

Again, still crossing my fingers Marcus makes an improbable leap.

But he cant. Again crossing my fingers you stop posting the same nonsense every day.

If he can't... we need to cut ties with him.  He's bottom 5 on the team in PER.  His lack of offense outweighs his bursts of defense.   

I need to believe that he can make a leap.  I can't stomach a world where this is the final form of a guy we used a #6 pick on.  Not while several players from the same class are now leapfrogging him.

Lol he won our last game for us.

Cause/effect.  Would the game had been that close in the first place had Smart not shot 1-9 and 0-5 from three?

[celticsclay]

He is what he is, methinks. 

I like him as a utility guy off the bench, 20-28 mpg, makes clutch defensive plays, good to have in a 5 man group so long as there are 2-3 scorers beside him. 

Not the kind of upside you'd like to see in a top 10 pick, but the 2014 lotto had plenty of less than super impressive guys.  Lots of teams passed on Zach Lavine.

Julius Randle is looking like a quality PF.  I think the Celts missed a good one there, but it's understandable why they didn't look that way at the time.

Oh well.  Smart's fun to have around.

Smart's a quality role player.  I'm not denying that.  But we need to get more than Tyron Lue esque "quality role player" from a #6 pick.   Had Smart been a late 1st, I'd be fine with this. 

I haven't given up on him yet.  It's still early in the season.  Need to see improvement soon, though.  There's several players taken after Smart that are starting to live up to their potential.  Not looking forward to the fall-out if this trend continues into mid season.

You are the fall-out

[celticsclay]

His offense may never materialize into what we once all had hoped, but Marcus seems like the kind-of guy any coach would want on the floor for as much time as possible.  The term 'role player' seems to be getting thrown around pretty loosely in this thread. Are we just insinuating that if a player does not become a star that he is automatically a role player?

Marcus is a selfless player who does anything to win. Lumping in him in with the Tyronn Lues of the world seems a little disingenuous. He is a unique player and I am happy to have him.

That was my exact sentiment when I saw it. Smart already does things at more elite level than Lue ever did in his entire career. If we wanted to compare him with players like Bowen and Allen that were at least elite at one thing that makes a bit more sense than the horrible misguided and flat out embarrassing Lue comparison.

I agree that it's embarrassing a #6 pick in a loaded draft can reasonably be compared to Tyronn Lue.

Again, still crossing my fingers Marcus makes an improbable leap.

But he cant. Again crossing my fingers you stop posting the same nonsense every day.

If he can't... we need to cut ties with him.  He's bottom 5 on the team in PER.  His lack of offense outweighs his bursts of defense.   

I need to believe that he can make a leap.  I can't stomach a world where this is the final form of a guy we used a #6 pick on.  Not while several players from the same class are now leapfrogging him.

Lol he won our last game for us.

Cause/effect.  Would the game had been that close in the first place had Smart not shot 1-9 and 0-5 from three?

[jbp126]

I've said it before (possibly not on the forums), but I think Smart's upside is Chauncey Billups.  Billups took a few seasons to come into his own, and early on he was not the deadly 3 pt shooter we now remember him being.  He also needed time to develop playmaking skills as a point guard.

Marcus's floor is Tony Allen.  I think he's already matched Allen's defensive prowess so for this to be Smart's comparison we'd have to assume his development completely stagnates.

[LarBrd33]

He is what he is, methinks. 

I like him as a utility guy off the bench, 20-28 mpg, makes clutch defensive plays, good to have in a 5 man group so long as there are 2-3 scorers beside him. 

Not the kind of upside you'd like to see in a top 10 pick, but the 2014 lotto had plenty of less than super impressive guys.  Lots of teams passed on Zach Lavine.

Julius Randle is looking like a quality PF.  I think the Celts missed a good one there, but it's understandable why they didn't look that way at the time.

Oh well.  Smart's fun to have around.

Smart's a quality role player.  I'm not denying that.  But we need to get more than Tyron Lue esque "quality role player" from a #6 pick.   Had Smart been a late 1st, I'd be fine with this. 

I haven't given up on him yet.  It's still early in the season.  Need to see improvement soon, though.  There's several players taken after Smart that are starting to live up to their potential.  Not looking forward to the fall-out if this trend continues into mid season.

You are the fall-out

I'm the canary in the coal mine.   There's two things that have my attention right now that I hope reverse course soon.  If these trends continue, you're going to see a lot written about it.   #1 - Marcus Smart's lack of improvement while guys taken after him start to leap frog him.   #2 - The 2016 draft class, thus far, has been laughably bad.

It's been only 13 or so games.  It's very early.   This could all be much ado about nothing a few months from now if Smart finally makes a leap and some of these 2016 draftees start making names for themselves.  It's just something to prepare for.   Don't start building your digital bunker yet, but a few more 1-9 shooting nights from Smart and it's going to get ugly.

[celticsclay]

I've said it before (possibly not on the forums), but I think Smart's upside is Chauncey Billups.  Billups took a few seasons to come into his own, and early on he was not the deadly 3 pt shooter we now remember him being.  He also needed time to develop playmaking skills as a point guard.

Marcus's floor is Tony Allen.  I think he's already matched Allen's defensive prowess so for this to be Smart's comparison we'd have to assume his development completely stagnates.

So you disagree with the Lue comparison?

[Rhyso]

No need to be salty on Smart because we didn't luck out on a top 3 pick that draft. The kid is a baller, anyone who actually watches the games and has played knows he plays winning basketball, as opposed to making conclusions primarily on his box score.

He still can't shoot yet, but anyone that expected a 2-way superstar from the 6th pick was kidding themselves. This was a good pick for the position.

[jbp126]

I've said it before (possibly not on the forums), but I think Smart's upside is Chauncey Billups.  Billups took a few seasons to come into his own, and early on he was not the deadly 3 pt shooter we now remember him being.  He also needed time to develop playmaking skills as a point guard.

Marcus's floor is Tony Allen.  I think he's already matched Allen's defensive prowess so for this to be Smart's comparison we'd have to assume his development completely stagnates.

So you disagree with the Lue comparison?

I'd rather not be part of this dispute, but, even if we're being modest about Smart's potential, I don't see the Lue comparison.   

[LarBrd33]

No need to be salty on Smart because we didn't luck out on a top 3 pick that draft. The kid is a baller, anyone who actually watches the games and has played knows he plays winning basketball, as opposed to making conclusions primarily on his box score.

He still can't shoot yet, but anyone that expected a 2-way superstar from the 6th pick was kidding themselves. This was a good pick for the position.

I watch the games.  With my eyeballs I've seen a guy who over his past 5 games has averaged just 8 points, 4.4 rebounds and 2.6 assists despite averaging 32.6 minutes... and has shot 33% from the field, 25% from three, and 50% from the line during that time.  Nobody is denying his defensive ability.   What's questionable is whether or not his defensive ability outweighs his offensive ineptitude and whether his offense warrents him being on the court at all.   You can talk all you want about how great he looks defensively (he's yet to receive any accolades for this), but you can't ignore the fact that he's coming off a season with historically bad shooting and through 10 games, the historically bad shooting has continued.   If you watch the games, you can see this.  You can also see how having an offensive liability on the court impacts the offense for the rest of the players. 

It's early enough that Smart can rattle off a few great shooting games and raise his efficiency.   It was looking pretty good a couple weeks ago and I made the comment that his trade value was trending up.   The past 5 games have been a bummer.   In the modern NBA you can't have Rajon Rondo on offense... especially Rajon Rondo without the passing and finishing ability.

[celticsclay]

I've said it before (possibly not on the forums), but I think Smart's upside is Chauncey Billups.  Billups took a few seasons to come into his own, and early on he was not the deadly 3 pt shooter we now remember him being.  He also needed time to develop playmaking skills as a point guard.

Marcus's floor is Tony Allen.  I think he's already matched Allen's defensive prowess so for this to be Smart's comparison we'd have to assume his development completely stagnates.

So you disagree with the Lue comparison?

I'd rather not be part of this dispute, but, even if we're being modest about Smart's potential, I don't see the Lue comparison.

Yea that is my feeling also. If people say things that most people view as ridiculous it is best to have them shot down so they dont perpetuate. Brings up the board quality when we have better comparisons.

[LarBrd33]

I've said it before (possibly not on the forums), but I think Smart's upside is Chauncey Billups.  Billups took a few seasons to come into his own, and early on he was not the deadly 3 pt shooter we now remember him being.  He also needed time to develop playmaking skills as a point guard.

Marcus's floor is Tony Allen.  I think he's already matched Allen's defensive prowess so for this to be Smart's comparison we'd have to assume his development completely stagnates.

So you disagree with the Lue comparison?

I'd rather not be part of this dispute, but, even if we're being modest about Smart's potential, I don't see the Lue comparison.

Yea that is my feeling also. If people say things that most people view as ridiculous it is best to have them shot down so they dont perpetuate. Brings up the board quality when we have better comparisons.

I wasn't sure about the Lue comparison either.  That's why I asked about it.  How about we call Smart the Kendrick Perkins of guards.  Is that better?

[fingerlakes]

I see a smaller version of Metta World Peace.  His best skills are his lock down defense and toughness.  I don't think he is quick enough to be a point guard and cannot shoot well enough to be a starting two guard. I see him more as that junk yard dog guy which every team needs.

[LarBrd33]

How about a shorter Thabo Sefolosha with historically bad shooting?   

See, it's tough to find comparisons to Smart, because there's really very few examples of guards who shot under 40% from the field, under 30% from three, and under 50% from the line, but earned minutes with defensive tenacity, quality flops, intangibles, and the clutch gene.  It's kind of an aberration. 

[jbp126]

I've said it before (possibly not on the forums), but I think Smart's upside is Chauncey Billups.  Billups took a few seasons to come into his own, and early on he was not the deadly 3 pt shooter we now remember him being.  He also needed time to develop playmaking skills as a point guard.

Marcus's floor is Tony Allen.  I think he's already matched Allen's defensive prowess so for this to be Smart's comparison we'd have to assume his development completely stagnates.

So you disagree with the Lue comparison?

I'd rather not be part of this dispute, but, even if we're being modest about Smart's potential, I don't see the Lue comparison.

Yea that is my feeling also. If people say things that most people view as ridiculous it is best to have them shot down so they dont perpetuate. Brings up the board quality when we have better comparisons.

I wasn't sure about the Lue comparison either.  That's why I asked about it.  How about we call Smart the Kendrick Perkins of guards.  Is that better?

Now you're just trying to get the CB community excited