Hey Danny you can't Draft Big Guy's

[Bobshot]

I'm looking forward to having Zizic in Boston .   Goodbye to JJ .  Amir and KO may be on thin ice . With Brown set to be future ....next draft should be for a serious BIG.

Zizic RIGHT NOW looks like their best big after Horford--in terms of their needs. But Danny has all those mediocre contracts tying up the 4 and 5. He is paying the price of putting all his eggs in the big star basket. He should have done more up front than Horford when he had the opportunity.

What he should do is make the Kings an offer for Cousins that they can't refuse. Which means anything goes.

[BitterJim]

 Sounds like your in denial Jim. That's Ok. We are there for you every step of the way.

 We drafted 6'7" Yabu this year #16 over 6'11" Henry Ellenson, 6'10" pogostick Brice Johnson, 6'11" Deyonta Davis All of whom were projected to go higher than Yabu.

And all of whom have huge holes in their games, which was the point of my entire post

Edit: To further clarify, if you read my post (again), you'll see that I said that he'll take a short player with fewer holes in his game over a taller player with more holes.  Your examples here are literally just examples of what I was saying, but without the benefit of hindsight to tell us how they'll actually develop

[ederson]

I'm looking forward to having Zizic in Boston .   Goodbye to JJ .  Amir and KO may be on thin ice . With Brown set to be future ....next draft should be for a serious BIG.

Zizic RIGHT NOW looks like their best big after Horford--in terms of their needs. But Danny has all those mediocre contracts tying up the 4 and 5. He is paying the price of putting all his eggs in the big star basket. He should have done more up front than Horford when he had the opportunity.

Zizic who plays in an average if not low level european league and hasn t stepped a foot in an nba arena is better than proven nba players.......

[BitterJim]

For whatever reason it does seem like Ainge has a strong preference for undersized, underathletic, skilled big men.  He has very rarely drafted any of these pogo stick, roll-down-the-lane-and-dunk type guys.

His draft record selecting bigs who are underappreciated due to a lack of physical tools is pretty good though.

The reason is simple.  Danny's philosophy seems to be to draft good basketball players rather than reaching for certain positions.  Clearly he doesn't always hit but seems like a solid strategy.  Never mind that good bigs are more rare than good smells.

Yeah, I understand the strategy.

I think it limits the upside of his picks, especially at the big positions, though. 

The Celtics could really use a big man with an intense physical dimension to his game.  They've needed that for a while now, actually.

You can't build a team entirely out of physical freaks, but you're at a disadvantage if your whole team is premised on taking advantage of a market inefficiency re: skilled guys with below average measurements.

 Good points Pho.


 He even did the same thing again with Yabu. Nice physical gifts and actually he has some athleticism for a change.

 But he's undersized! Again! Just like Mickey, Bass, Baby Davis, Leon Powe, Ryan Gomes. And now Yabu. He just Loves 6'7" Power forwards because that's six of them right there.

 That's why Zizic is a revelation almost 7 feet with a 9'3" standing reach. And he plays like a real big. With plus athleticism.

If those guys were 7' tall, they would have been gone a lot earlier. When you have the picks that Danny's had, you get flawed prospects

You're not gonna find a smart, inside player, with prototypical size, great defense and rebounding plus the ability to pass and score from outside late in the draft because those players rarely exist in general, and when they do they go early.  Instead you have guys who might be a few of those things, but have major flaws.  Some are dumb as bricks, some are soft, some have awful hands, some are short.  Of those types that are available, Danny tends to go for the shorter players with more complete games (and given his relative success taking these guys, it makes sense).

Saying "Danny likes short bigs" is disingenuous.  He would take a big with the same talent but better size any day of the week, but it's a false dilemma.  The choice isn't "6'10 guy or 6'7 guy", it's "6'10 guy with huge holes in his game or 6'7 guy with way fewer holes".  Yes, those guys with huge holes in their games but good size sometimes turn into good or great players, but the vast majority turn out to be busts.  Of all the holes late-draft big man prospects have, height is just the one Danny worries least about

Skipping 15 and 16 because they are too recent, the last 2 drafts (i.e. 13, 14) have had the following big guys taken after at least one of Boston's selections: Jusuf Nurkic, Clint Capela, Nikola Jokic, Gorgui Dieng, Rudy Gobert.  That obviously doesn't count a PF like Dario Saric either.  What do those guys have in common?  They are foreign.  Perhaps Ainge was just ignoring Europe.  Maybe that is why he took KO over Giannis.  Maybe he finally realized the folly of his ways, which is why Boston selected two Europeans in the first round this past draft.

Nurkic hardly counts, he was taken #15 overall and the pick we had before him was #6.  I still think if he had just dropped one more [dang] spot we would have taken him instead of Young.  Saric is a similar situation, but he's learly in the "not better than Smart" camp so that's not a bad pick by Danny

Jokic was taken in the mid second round - he was a total question mark that happened to work out. I would have loved to have taken him, but there are tons of similar guys that get taken there that never work out.  That's an unfortunate case of one of the guys taken later as a flyer developing way better than anyone expected, not a miss

Gobert I really wanted in that draft.  I can understand why Danny went with the safer pick, but I'd agree that Gobert was a miss

Capela I wasn't such a big fan of, but he has been solid this year, taking a flyer on him instead of Young would have been nice

I would take KO over Dieng so I don't think that's a good example

Didn't someone do an analysis of players Danny's taken versus available foreign players a few years ago and find that it was more that there weren't actually many good foreign players taken in the vicinity of our picks (but several highly touted prospects that turned out to be awful)? I'd love to see that with a couple more years thrown in (although I wonder how relevant it really is with Yabu and Zizic being take this year)

[Moranis]

For whatever reason it does seem like Ainge has a strong preference for undersized, underathletic, skilled big men.  He has very rarely drafted any of these pogo stick, roll-down-the-lane-and-dunk type guys.

His draft record selecting bigs who are underappreciated due to a lack of physical tools is pretty good though.

The reason is simple.  Danny's philosophy seems to be to draft good basketball players rather than reaching for certain positions.  Clearly he doesn't always hit but seems like a solid strategy.  Never mind that good bigs are more rare than good smells.

Yeah, I understand the strategy.

I think it limits the upside of his picks, especially at the big positions, though. 

The Celtics could really use a big man with an intense physical dimension to his game.  They've needed that for a while now, actually.

You can't build a team entirely out of physical freaks, but you're at a disadvantage if your whole team is premised on taking advantage of a market inefficiency re: skilled guys with below average measurements.

 Good points Pho.


 He even did the same thing again with Yabu. Nice physical gifts and actually he has some athleticism for a change.

 But he's undersized! Again! Just like Mickey, Bass, Baby Davis, Leon Powe, Ryan Gomes. And now Yabu. He just Loves 6'7" Power forwards because that's six of them right there.

 That's why Zizic is a revelation almost 7 feet with a 9'3" standing reach. And he plays like a real big. With plus athleticism.

If those guys were 7' tall, they would have been gone a lot earlier. When you have the picks that Danny's had, you get flawed prospects

You're not gonna find a smart, inside player, with prototypical size, great defense and rebounding plus the ability to pass and score from outside late in the draft because those players rarely exist in general, and when they do they go early.  Instead you have guys who might be a few of those things, but have major flaws.  Some are dumb as bricks, some are soft, some have awful hands, some are short.  Of those types that are available, Danny tends to go for the shorter players with more complete games (and given his relative success taking these guys, it makes sense).

Saying "Danny likes short bigs" is disingenuous.  He would take a big with the same talent but better size any day of the week, but it's a false dilemma.  The choice isn't "6'10 guy or 6'7 guy", it's "6'10 guy with huge holes in his game or 6'7 guy with way fewer holes".  Yes, those guys with huge holes in their games but good size sometimes turn into good or great players, but the vast majority turn out to be busts.  Of all the holes late-draft big man prospects have, height is just the one Danny worries least about

Skipping 15 and 16 because they are too recent, the last 2 drafts (i.e. 13, 14) have had the following big guys taken after at least one of Boston's selections: Jusuf Nurkic, Clint Capela, Nikola Jokic, Gorgui Dieng, Rudy Gobert.  That obviously doesn't count a PF like Dario Saric either.  What do those guys have in common?  They are foreign.  Perhaps Ainge was just ignoring Europe.  Maybe that is why he took KO over Giannis.  Maybe he finally realized the folly of his ways, which is why Boston selected two Europeans in the first round this past draft.

Nurkic hardly counts, he was taken #15 overall and the pick we had before him was #6.  I still think if he had just dropped one more [dang] spot we would have taken him instead of Young.  Saric is a similar situation, but he's learly in the "not better than Smart" camp so that's not a bad pick by Danny

Jokic was taken in the mid second round - he was a total question mark that happened to work out. I would have loved to have taken him, but there are tons of similar guys that get taken there that never work out.  That's an unfortunate case of one of the guys taken later as a flyer developing way better than anyone expected, not a miss

Gobert I really wanted in that draft.  I can understand why Danny went with the safer pick, but I'd agree that Gobert was a miss

Capela I wasn't such a big fan of, but he has been solid this year, taking a flyer on him instead of Young would have been nice

I would take KO over Dieng so I don't think that's a good example

Didn't someone do an analysis of players Danny's taken versus available foreign players a few years ago and find that it was more that there weren't actually many good foreign players taken in the vicinity of our picks (but several highly touted prospects that turned out to be awful)? I'd love to see that with a couple more years thrown in (although I wonder how relevant it really is with Yabu and Zizic being take this year)

I still think Randle was the right move, not Smart, but I wasn't including PF's.

Dieng is better than KO with a better career.  It is pretty hard to defend KO over Dieng at this point. 

[Alleyoopster]

Since we are talking about bigs....

Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems in all the Zizic video clips I've seen, he only dunks or takes layups. Can he shoot outside of 3 feet from the basket? And, can he shoot free throws?

Any news on how Deyonta Davis is doing in Memphis?

[number_n9ne]

Since we are talking about bigs....

Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems in all the Zizic video clips I've seen, he only dunks or takes layups. Can he shoot outside of 3 feet from the basket? And, can he shoot free throws?

Any news on how Deyonta Davis is doing in Memphis?

Yes and Yes. Are you watching the same clips as us? because those shots are included.

[alldaboston]

Since we are talking about bigs....

Maybe it's my imagination, but it seems in all the Zizic video clips I've seen, he only dunks or takes layups. Can he shoot outside of 3 feet from the basket? And, can he shoot free throws?

Any news on how Deyonta Davis is doing in Memphis?

the last highlight video i watched, he hit a midrange jumper that looked eerily similar to how Horford does it (like, he gets the ball, gathers, turns face to the basket, maybe fakes once, and then perfect release).

Davis had a 17-6 game a few weeks ago i think, but it was mostly in garbage time and all the Memphis starters were either resting that game or playing very limited minutes.

[Bobshot]

I'm looking forward to having Zizic in Boston .   Goodbye to JJ .  Amir and KO may be on thin ice . With Brown set to be future ....next draft should be for a serious BIG.

Zizic RIGHT NOW looks like their best big after Horford--in terms of their needs. But Danny has all those mediocre contracts tying up the 4 and 5. He is paying the price of putting all his eggs in the big star basket. He should have done more up front than Horford when he had the opportunity.

Zizic who plays in an average if not low level european league and hasn t stepped a foot in an nba arena is better than proven nba players.......

STILL better. LOL.

[The One]

For whatever reason it does seem like Ainge has a strong preference for undersized, underathletic, skilled big men.  He has very rarely drafted any of these pogo stick, roll-down-the-lane-and-dunk type guys.

His draft record selecting bigs who are underappreciated due to a lack of physical tools is pretty good though.

The reason is simple.  Danny's philosophy seems to be to draft good basketball players rather than reaching for certain positions.  Clearly he doesn't always hit but seems like a solid strategy.  Never mind that good bigs are more rare than good smells.

Yeah, I understand the strategy.

I think it limits the upside of his picks, especially at the big positions, though. 

The Celtics could really use a big man with an intense physical dimension to his game.  They've needed that for a while now, actually.

You can't build a team entirely out of physical freaks, but you're at a disadvantage if your whole team is premised on taking advantage of a market inefficiency re: skilled guys with below average measurements.

You've just described Bam.  Physical freak all the way.

[The Oracle]

For whatever reason it does seem like Ainge has a strong preference for undersized, underathletic, skilled big men.  He has very rarely drafted any of these pogo stick, roll-down-the-lane-and-dunk type guys.

His draft record selecting bigs who are underappreciated due to a lack of physical tools is pretty good though.

The reason is simple.  Danny's philosophy seems to be to draft good basketball players rather than reaching for certain positions.  Clearly he doesn't always hit but seems like a solid strategy.  Never mind that good bigs are more rare than good smells.

Yeah, I understand the strategy.

I think it limits the upside of his picks, especially at the big positions, though. 

The Celtics could really use a big man with an intense physical dimension to his game.  They've needed that for a while now, actually.

You can't build a team entirely out of physical freaks, but you're at a disadvantage if your whole team is premised on taking advantage of a market inefficiency re: skilled guys with below average measurements.

You've just described Bam.  Physical freak all the way.

If you can produce an excellent defense with a guy like Olynyk, why would you want a much less skilled offensive player in his place? 

[KG Living Legend]

 What big guy has he drafted that plays defense

[GratefulCs]

 What big guy has he drafted that plays defense

perk?

[KG Living Legend]

 Good call with Perkins. But like Pho said, I'm really looking for a gut Like KG or Giles with elite physical tools.

[The Oracle]

 What big guy has he drafted that plays defense

The game has expanded outward and it is now imperative to defend the 3 point line.  This expansion outward and away from post defense has made guys like Olynyk much, much more valuable defensively than a guy like Perkins would be right now.  Perkins would be worthless trying to defend outside the paint like Olynyk does.  Olynyk defensively 10 or 15 years ago would hold much less value defensively.