Is "posse" a racially charged word?

[PhoSita]

That just doesn't make any sense to me. People can be offended about anything, and you have no control over it. However, you do have control over your usage of a word and how you're using specific terms in language, so doesn't your conception of how you're using the word ultimately determine the moral nature and appropriateness of your words/language?

I suppose in theory people can be offended by anything.  If you respect other people enough to assume that they usually have a reason for being upset about something you do, it might make sense to at least give other people the opportunity to explain why what you did upset them.

You do, after all, have control over your own actions and word choice, and while you aren't necessarily obligated to do so, making an effort not to do or say things you know will hurt the feelings of those around you seems to me like a fairly basic part of being a decent person.

I don't know about "moral nature," but I do know that your own conception of what you meant doesn't have anything to do with whether it bothers or even deeply upsets somebody else.  Now, sometimes that's going to happen because of a misunderstanding on their part.  Sometimes it's going to happen because the other person is extremely emotionally fragile.  But other times it's going to happen because of your own ignorance.

In any case, why not try to at least understand where the other person is coming from?  And then, if it's not a hardship, why not try to avoid upsetting them in the same way in the future?


Liberal / Western conceptions of free speech and moral autonomy ... well, I don't know.  But it seems to me being part of a diverse society asks something of you to give a dang about how your actions affect other people.  Right?  Doesn't mean you necessarily have to change your behavior.  But it should factor in.

[GreenFaith1819]

Poor choice of words from an older gentleman who believes he is above it all.

Phil Jackson's supposedly vast knowledge of basketball (and Life) should have him a bit more understanding of certain things....maybe HE should do some recommended reading vice the team(s) he have been affiliated with?

Phil Jackson isn't racist, though.

I strongly believe that he is probably sitting back reading this all and wondering what the fuss is about - not even believing (and caring) about why LeBron is upset.

I believe Lebron (and his friends) have a right to be upset though - but I wish LeBron would not be as dismissive of him as he was in his comments. "Losing all respect for Phil?" That is a bit too much for me but again Phil should be / could be better than that...

....or maybe Phil is unable to be better than that?

It's not like the NY Knicks are world beaters, so I tend to just look at this as more blathering than anything else from Phil.

Phil has probably caused his poor team a bit more angst from LeBron in the near future, though. I look for the whippings to continue in NY-CLE games with NY absorbing a good amount of punishment.

[saltlover]

I think there is some racial connection with regard to modern use of the word -- but it doesn't matter.  If someone tells me they are offended by the term, I wouldn't use it.

It would be great if both PC and anti-PC folks could relax a little.  I really have no say in what someone finds offensive -- there is plenty that I find offensive that others wouldn't, and vice-versa. And frankly, if I am offended and someone who has no knowledge of my life and my experiences in the world tells me I shouldn't be, it's probably not the start of a pleasant conversation.

Why? That seems to run counter to the liberal/Western conceptions of freedom of speech and moral autonomy.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. People can be offended about anything, and you have no control over it. However, you do have control over your usage of a word and how you're using specific terms in language, so doesn't your conception of how you're using the word ultimately determine the moral nature and appropriateness of your words/language?

Because language changes over both time and distance, and words that are innocuous in one time and place may not be so in another, despite what a dictionary may tell you.  Let me give an example: (and mods, I really apologize if what I say is considered offensive below.  My intent is to constructively contribute, and not offend.)

Let's take the word "retarded."  Many decades ago, this was a medical word, short for an actual diagnosis of "mental retardation."  Over the years that word made its way into colloquial speech, and in 2016 it is clearly a pejorative.  But there was a time when it was both used clinically and as a perjorative, depending on the speaker.  And if you told me that "retarded" was not considered a perjorative in England or Australia, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised.

Accordingly not using words that someone says offends them is about respect.  It's about respecting that what a word means to him or her is not what it means to you, and that such a word is insulting to that person.  It's about assuming that this person respects you too, and is not making something up, but rather being honest with you and teaching you something.  If you want to have a relationship founded on trust and mutual respect with this person, a proper response would be something like "I'm sorry, I didn't know that word was offensive, and I didn't mean for you to hear it in that manner. Thanks for being honest with me and teaching me something."

[fairweatherfan]

Posse used to get used a lot during the Iverson era and like a lot of criticisms around Iverson and his generation always seemed to have something of a connotation to it. LeBron was growing up around then so it wouldn't surprise me if he'd picked up on that impression.

That said, eh, it seems more of a flip put-down than anything, and as some of LeBron's friends noted they aren't just hangers-on but have successful careers of their own. Don't blame them for being miffed but not necessarily on board with the racial element.

[fairweatherfan]

Let's take the word "retarded."  Many decades ago, this was a medical word, short for an actual diagnosis of "mental retardation."  Over the years that word made its way into colloquial speech, and in 2016 it is clearly a pejorative.  But there was a time when it was both used clinically and as a perjorative, depending on the speaker.  And if you told me that "retarded" was not considered a perjorative in England or Australia, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised.

This is a tangent but in England their equivalent word is "spastic" or "spaz" which here is still seen as pretty innocuous albeit a bit dated. I always thought it was interesting that our #1 offensive term for disability refers to mental disability and theirs to physical. Don't know if it means anything but there might be something cultural going on there.

[SHAQATTACK]

Not on " Gun Smoke"

[GreenFaith1819]

Not on " Gun Smoke"

[Denis998]

I feel that it is just antiquated language from a 71 year old man. Disuse of the word in the current generation probably skewed its meaning.

[wayupnorth]

Have never heard of "posse" being a racial term before.

Silly stuff.

[kraidstar]

One time i was sitting with a friend outside a convenience store and this big biker guy walked past with his girlfriend. Apparently he didn't like us looking at him so he stopped and started yelling at us.

Some more of our friends rolled up next to us in a pickup truck.

Seeing that we had major numbers, the biker guy yelled out "I'll take out you and your whole posse!"

It was humorous at the time.

I think there are negative connotations to the word - women are not described as being in a posse - the word has its roots in the wild west, were "posses" of lawmen were sent out to kill or arrest criminals. A "posse" inherently has strength, and is a physical force.

Nowadays it is used to describe close-knit young male friends, something short of a gang. In sports it describes groups of hangers-on/friends/sycophants/protectors who accompany a star player.

I've heard people on this blog and elsewhere mention LeBron's posse before, and it wasn't really in a positive sense.

I don't know that it's an inherently racial thing, but it is at least a slightly negative term and it does seem to be used quite a bit to describe blacks.

[notthebowler]

Nope

TP for having the correct answer right out of the chute. LBJ crying wolf.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think there is some racial connection with regard to modern use of the word -- but it doesn't matter.  If someone tells me they are offended by the term, I wouldn't use it.

It would be great if both PC and anti-PC folks could relax a little.  I really have no say in what someone finds offensive -- there is plenty that I find offensive that others wouldn't, and vice-versa. And frankly, if I am offended and someone who has no knowledge of my life and my experiences in the world tells me I shouldn't be, it's probably not the start of a pleasant conversation.

Why? That seems to run counter to the liberal/Western conceptions of freedom of speech and moral autonomy.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. People can be offended about anything, and you have no control over it. However, you do have control over your usage of a word and how you're using specific terms in language, so doesn't your conception of how you're using the word ultimately determine the moral nature and appropriateness of your words/language?

I don't know how it runs counter to liberal/Western conceptions of freedom of speech -- I am saying people have both a right to be offended AND a right to offend.

I am just saying I would believe/ respect a person's right to judge for themselves their own offense to something I said/did -- and -- in the vast majority of circumstances I would not choose to offend them again.  I would actually accept another's life experience as the correct determiner of their own feelings.

Let's take an extreme example: let's say someone was experiencing a PTSD reaction to word I used -- perhaps because that word was used repeatedly in the context of his/her abuse (or traumatic circumstance).  I would not be intending any offense, but I would see the reaction and know that it struck a chord.  IF the person were to say please don't use that term around me, I probably wouldn't.   And further, for me to say (as I think you are suggesting) that I should ignore their response and say "well, that term shouldn't bother you and I meant no offense, so I'll continue to use it because my conception of the use of the word was benign", feels not quite right to me.   Morality, to me, includes caring about how people respond to my choice of words/actions -- not always being ruled by that, but certainly considering it. 

Additionally, I have control of both the words I use and the choice not to use them.  That sounds like freedom to me.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

This is ridiculous. Most people know "posse" from the Wild West setting. Lots of groups of friends also use the term--including whites. Grey's Anatomy even had a Plastics Posse (plastic surgeons).

It would be great if this country could go, I don't know, a week without adding yet another word to the Official List of Racist Words.

[Celtics4ever]

Oh LeBron is offended, whoopity doo.  Classic case of it is ok when I say it but not when you do.

[GreenFaith1819]

Knowing Phil, this could be some CRAZY way for him to attempt to get into LeBron's mind...find a soft spot.

It's not like Phil hasn't been akin to playing mind games before.

It could be that Phil is trying to get LeBron thinking about something other than basketball in a potential 1st round series with CLE in April. Such a move would probably backfire embarrassingly for NY but '"IF" Phil knew he could get into LeBron's head with this and affect his game negatively? Of course Phil would do this.

Wouldn't Larry? Paul? or KG? Kobe? Jordan? Wouldn't (and haven't) these all-time greats did mind games?

"Posse" and it's connotations here are not so black and white even though I agree it's a poor choice of words by him.

Phil Jackson will go down as one of the greatest minds in Sports history - even moreso if he could plant a seed like this in November that could potentially sprout in April.

Phil should've been more aware - but maybe he is?

I'm just glad we got our licks in in 2007-08. Phil Jackson is a legend.