Is "posse" a racially charged word?

[BlackCeltic]

Everyone knows Posse means gang. He could have said entourage and noone would have batted an eye. Phil was just trying to discredit Lebron's affiliates, and LBJ's camp is upset about it. That's all it is. It's unlike Phil to speak unprofessionally like that in public, though. He knows better. At the end of the day they are all rich, and no sleep will be lost.

[BornReady]

i didnt know posse meant gang before i looked it up after this controversy

I assumed it meant entourage but even then I think phil was discrediting Lebron's associates as they are professionals and not just a bunch friends Lebron hangs around with

[Neurotic Guy]

This is ridiculous. Most people know "posse" from the Wild West setting. Lots of groups of friends also use the term--including whites. Grey's Anatomy even had a Plastics Posse (plastic surgeons).

It would be great if this country could go, I don't know, a week without adding yet another word to the Official List of Racist Words.

I just tried to list words that I recall that have been cited as carrying negative racial connotations (other than the blatant ones).  I am having trouble coming up with very many.  I must be missing the weekly additions.

Hyperbole goes both ways:  It is likely that people overstate their own level of offense or overstate the "pain" caused by the use of the "offensive" language.   It also probably true that  people overstate how badly "PC" is impacting their lives.   I actually can't think of too many times that I've wanted to say something that someone might find offensive and had to find another way of expressing myself.  PC has caused virtually zero change in how I behave.   And where it has caused me to re-think my language/actions, it has generally been for the better.

[Donoghus]

It's a term that seemed to have fallen the wayside in recent years but it was definitely prevalent in the 90s and certainly seemed to be more directed towards inner city youth/gangs and minority groups.  There was even a tongue in cheek "Mean Street Posse" tag team in the WWE in the late 90s that was a not so subtle shot at it.

Bad word choice from Phil although I do think Lebron is overreacting.

[kraidstar]

Everyone knows Posse means gang. He could have said entourage and noone would have batted an eye. Phil was just trying to discredit Lebron's affiliates, and LBJ's camp is upset about it. That's all it is. It's unlike Phil to speak unprofessionally like that in public, though. He knows better. At the end of the day they are all rich, and no sleep will be lost.

Phil has always gotten his digs in against people he doesn't like. He chooses his words very carefully.

Remember when he called Leon Powe "Leon Pow" after we beat them in a finals game in 2008?

He is a troll, and he knows LeBron is easily provoked.

[tazzmaniac]

Jackson's statement about Lebron and his posse was meant to be negative so they certainly have the right to be offended.  Lebron couldn't dispute the truth of what Jackson said so Lebron chose to play the race card.  Posse is not a racial term.  In Lebron's statement, he said "me and my guys" multiple times.  That is the same as "me and my posse" or "me and my crew".  Carmelo stumbled over saying "crew" before coming up with the weak "tight-knit group" and inaccurate "family".  Chances are Lebron has used "me and my crew" if not "me and my posse"  in the past.   

[KGs Knee]

The answer to this thread topic is unequivocally no.

Posse, gang, entourage, clique, are all fairly interchangeable terms. Their actual definitions might be slightly different, but in terms of general usage, they roughly carry the same meaning.

Plenty of white people I know use this term to describe groups of other white people. Maybe not so much anymore now that I'm older, but we sure used it back when I was in HS.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Didn't read through the entire thread but I have never heard black people called a "posse" as a negative thing. Now, 'gang" would be different. I have heard/said it as a cool thing (90s), though. The only time I have heard it used as a negative was about white people and that was in Westerns lol. I'm really thinking hard but whenever I do all I see is people on horses trying to rob banks or just pillaging towns.


It definitely could be used in that way but context and/or who said it matters.

[bdo3272]

I'm voting no. If Phil used the term "gang" I can see someone taking it offensively, but I don't think that was Phil's intent. Posse though? Ironically, the most famous "posse" I can think of (and it took me a while cuz, who uses the word posse? You're so hip, Phil!) is the Insane Clown Posse.  Which I think is made up predominately of unloved white teens.

[Chief]

Maybe Sir Mix A Lot can answer this question :

https://youtu.be/meI5WUFMA4w

[jpotter33]

I think there is some racial connection with regard to modern use of the word -- but it doesn't matter.  If someone tells me they are offended by the term, I wouldn't use it.

It would be great if both PC and anti-PC folks could relax a little.  I really have no say in what someone finds offensive -- there is plenty that I find offensive that others wouldn't, and vice-versa. And frankly, if I am offended and someone who has no knowledge of my life and my experiences in the world tells me I shouldn't be, it's probably not the start of a pleasant conversation.

Why? That seems to run counter to the liberal/Western conceptions of freedom of speech and moral autonomy.

That just doesn't make any sense to me. People can be offended about anything, and you have no control over it. However, you do have control over your usage of a word and how you're using specific terms in language, so doesn't your conception of how you're using the word ultimately determine the moral nature and appropriateness of your words/language?

I don't know how it runs counter to liberal/Western conceptions of freedom of speech -- I am saying people have both a right to be offended AND a right to offend.

I am just saying I would believe/ respect a person's right to judge for themselves their own offense to something I said/did -- and -- in the vast majority of circumstances I would not choose to offend them again.  I would actually accept another's life experience as the correct determiner of their own feelings.

Let's take an extreme example: let's say someone was experiencing a PTSD reaction to word I used -- perhaps because that word was used repeatedly in the context of his/her abuse (or traumatic circumstance).  I would not be intending any offense, but I would see the reaction and know that it struck a chord.  IF the person were to say please don't use that term around me, I probably wouldn't.   And further, for me to say (as I think you are suggesting) that I should ignore their response and say "well, that term shouldn't bother you and I meant no offense, so I'll continue to use it because my conception of the use of the word was benign", feels not quite right to me.   Morality, to me, includes caring about how people respond to my choice of words/actions -- not always being ruled by that, but certainly considering it. 

Additionally, I have control of both the words I use and the choice not to use them.  That sounds like freedom to me.

Oh, I totally agree, but that's in a more specific sense that I wasn't necessarily talking about. I mean in a more general sense like the Phil Jackson case. In a general sense, I think people should worry more about how they're using a particular word rather than how others might take offense to it, since that is such a variable and subjective concept.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Phil using that term, even if Lebron took offense to it. Now, on the other hand, if Phil would purposefully do it again when talking about Lebron knowing full well that he'd take offense to that, then, yeah, there's something wrong with that. Then again, I don't think he should stop using the word "posse" altogether because one individual finds it offensive, just not toward that particular individual anymore.

I think that's a major difference than the situations that you, Saltlover, and Pho are talking about. I also think terms like this are completely different cases than something like the terms "retarded" or "bipolar," which are actually linked with psychological ailments that really shouldn't be used as labels. On the other hand, terms like "posse" or "gangs" or "thugs" are so subjectively used, and unconsciously used in many ways, that it's virtually impossible to argue one way or the other whether a singular instance of using one of those terms equates to racism. In that way, I think you should worry more about how you're conceiving and utilizing the word rather than how others are.

[Moranis]

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/video/teams/cavaliers/2016/11/15/1479228323927-161115-lbj-946849

"To use that label, and if you go and read the definition of what the word 'posse' is, it's not what I've built over my career. It's not what I stand for," James said. "It's not what my family stands for. And I believe the only reason he used that word is because it's young African-Americans trying to make a difference."

From Merriam Webster

Full Definition of posse
1:  a large group often with a common interest
2:  a body of persons summoned by a sheriff to assist in preserving the public peace usually in an emergency
3:  a group of people temporarily organized to make a search (as for a lost child)
4:  entourage

From dictionary.com:

1. posse comitatus.
2. a body or force armed with legal authority.
3. Slang. a group of friends or associates:

What the hell is he talking about?

why did you leave off the examples under #3 from dictionary.com

noun
1.
posse comitatus.
2.
a body or force armed with legal authority.
3.
Slang. a group of friends or associates:
hanging out with your posse; a posse of drug dealers.

[manl_lui]

this is probably my first time hearing the "posse" is a racist word

[TrueFan]

I listened to Lebron and all I got to say is who cares Lebron. He's an old white guy who's slang probably ends in the 90s. I'm betting most players use to call their crews posses back then.

[Snakehead]

By the way, on ESPN they referenced previous comments about Jackson, specifically using "posse" for his group in the past, and all young athletes (who, guess what, happen to be black):

"In the Cleveland game, I was impressed with LeBron James who had made strides since we played the Cavs during the exhibition season.  Yet, as talented as this kid definitely appears to be, I don't believe he or any 19 year old should be playing in the NBA.  These young men grow so dependent on their posses, who fetch their cars and girls, that they can't possibly develop into mature, self-sufficient human beings.  One day, I'm convinced, we'll find out the true extend of the psychological damage that's being caused."

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=18060097

Fetch their cars and girls, huh Phil?

And they also discuss how Jordan and Rodman left their teams when Jackson was the coach.

Here's also a choice quote from old Phil when the NBA passed the dress code:

"I don’t mean to say [this] as a snide remark toward a certain population in our society, but they have a limitation of their attention span, a lot of it probably due to too much rap music going in their ears and coming out their being…. The players have been dressing in prison garb the last five or six years. All the stuff that goes on, it’s like gangster, thuggery stuff.”