People realize losing an all-star, a key starter and bench player matters?

[ThaPreacher]

Yeah, you are right, but what this means is this team's depth was a mirage.  Celtics are not just losing, they are losing big.  Perimeter defense and inside defense has been hideous.  The bench sucks.

Thanks for trying to make me feel better, but it's not working.

The issue isn't that people are overreacting. We are aware that we are missing key  players. But Crowder and Horford were present in the Brooklyn comeback and the Chicago loss. We are not the same hustling, scrappy team. Stevens knows this. It is why he made the statements to the press he did.

The Celtics defense has not  been good. The intensity level has not been good.
The rebounding has not been good.
And we have been blown out in the last two games.

Watching Butler physically overpower all of the Celtics who guarded him reminded me why Danny was so enamored with him.  Watching Mudiay, then Otto Porter dominate us made me wonder where all the help defense was.

I would be shocked if we keep all of our undersized guards.

Danny is like a cat waiting to pounce on the first deal that he can make that brings back a shotblocker/rebounder. He is licking his chops waiting to get the fattest mouse.

Meow! Meow!

[LooseCannon]

Last season, people were complaining about Stevens not playing young players.  The reason they didn't play last season was partly because the Celtics were relatively healthy and partly because those young players included James Young, RJ Hunter, and Jordan Mickey.

If the Celtics want a short-term move for some big man offense and rebounding, they can cut Mickey or Young and sign Carl Landry.

It's a long season.  Unless the Celtics are so hard hit that they need to cut an injured player just to get another warm body like New Orleans had to do with Lance Stephenson, Ainge should just wait until Horford is completely healthy and see how the team gels before adjusting the roster (unless he gets the sort of irresistible offer of value that he got in the IT deal).

[Rosco917]

The fact is even with Horford healthy we need another center/big to create a different look, and provide backup.

Amir, Zeller, and Mickey aren't cutting it.

I will say this...I'm wondering how Kelly and Al would work together. I don't think they'll get in each others way. Horford could defend the speeder big.

[alldaboston]

The fact is even with Horford healthy we need another center/big to create a different look, and provide backup.

Amir, Zeller, and Mickey aren't cutting it.

I will say this...I'm wondering how Kelly and Al would work together. I don't think they'll get in each others way. Horford could defend the speeder big.

Kelly's defensive numbers have been surprisingly good over the past few seasons. Offensively, it could work too. Either one can help spread the floor and get the defense out of the paint for the other one to try to get something going in the post. And both would help Isaiah and Jae and Avery to slash to the rim thanks to the spacing. You'd literally have 5 shooters in the starting lineup. Although, that means the bench doesn't have any shooters lol

[tazzmaniac]

Funny how quickly things swing around here.  Brown was supposed to be competing for ROY.  Now he's barely above a d-leaguer.  Rozier was supposed to be some hot PG prospect that the Sixers should want to trade Noel for. 

Even healthy, we aren't a true contender but I thought we do well during the regular season because of our depth.  Now I have to question how good our depth really is.  The injuries certainly matter but we're getting blasted by mediocre teams.

I don't think that anyone thought brown was ready to start for a playoff team (also haven't anyone see anyone but embiid would be ROY)  Very few rookies can. I believe Winslow may have been the only one last year and that was for a non contender. Rozier is fine and has mid level value just like an injured disgruntled Noel. Feel free to be bitter and inaccurate in a different thread

I'm not bitter and you're not the arbiter of who can post in a thread.  Some of the comments on Brown have been over the top especially right after the Cleveland game.  However Brown has exceed my expectations for this year.  I thought I'd have to figure how to watch the Red Claws to see him play.  I would have like to see him play more against Washington.  Hopefully he'll still get some real playing time (not garbage time) when everyone gets back.   

As for Rozier, just haven't seen anything from him to be excited about.  Right now, he looks like he tops out as a backup PG. 

[GreenWarrior]

Funny how quickly things swing around here.  Brown was supposed to be competing for ROY.  Now he's barely above a d-leaguer.  Rozier was supposed to be some hot PG prospect that the Sixers should want to trade Noel for. 

Even healthy, we aren't a true contender but I thought we do well during the regular season because of our depth.  Now I have to question how good our depth really is.  The injuries certainly matter but we're getting blasted by mediocre teams.

I don't think that anyone thought brown was ready to start for a playoff team (also haven't anyone see anyone but embiid would be ROY)  Very few rookies can. I believe Winslow may have been the only one last year and that was for a non contender. Rozier is fine and has mid level value just like an injured disgruntled Noel. Feel free to be bitter and inaccurate in a different thread

I'm not bitter and you're not the arbiter of who can post in a thread.  Some of the comments on Brown have been over the top especially right after the Cleveland game.  However Brown has exceed my expectations for this year.  I thought I'd have to figure how to watch the Red Claws to see him play.  I would have like to see him play more against Washington.  Hopefully he'll still get some real playing time (not garbage time) when everyone gets back.   

As for Rozier, just haven't seen anything from him to be excited about.  Right now, he looks like he tops out as a backup PG.

that's this forum. overrate every young player you can...except james young. Jordan mickey is All Defense though.

this team was able to beat golden state without crowder last yr. leading many here to see him as expendable...now he's injured again and we're lost without him ...

[celticsclay]

Funny how quickly things swing around here.  Brown was supposed to be competing for ROY.  Now he's barely above a d-leaguer.  Rozier was supposed to be some hot PG prospect that the Sixers should want to trade Noel for. 

Even healthy, we aren't a true contender but I thought we do well during the regular season because of our depth.  Now I have to question how good our depth really is.  The injuries certainly matter but we're getting blasted by mediocre teams.

I don't think that anyone thought brown was ready to start for a playoff team (also haven't anyone see anyone but embiid would be ROY)  Very few rookies can. I believe Winslow may have been the only one last year and that was for a non contender. Rozier is fine and has mid level value just like an injured disgruntled Noel. Feel free to be bitter and inaccurate in a different thread

I'm not bitter and you're not the arbiter of who can post in a thread.  Some of the comments on Brown have been over the top especially right after the Cleveland game.  However Brown has exceed my expectations for this year.  I thought I'd have to figure how to watch the Red Claws to see him play.  I would have like to see him play more against Washington.  Hopefully he'll still get some real playing time (not garbage time) when everyone gets back.   

As for Rozier, just haven't seen anything from him to be excited about.  Right now, he looks like he tops out as a backup PG.

I didn't say you had to. I said you could feel free to. Your first comment was over the top and you know it. Acting like the general sentiment was that brown was ROY and now the sentiment is that he is a d-leaguer was inaccurate and poorly written. You know what you were doing with that post and that is why you got called on it (several time). I'll also say there was no wild swing on rozier. He was a prospect 7 games ago that was raw and he still is a prospect that is raw now.

[BlackCeltic]

I think ITs defense is the start of the ending when Crowder is not out there. Bradley is not able to mask it and the 3 guard lineup with Smart makes us less effective on the boards. Then when we get down big IT makes sure he pads his stats and at most plays a 2 man game with Bradley. People won't talk about IT because of how much he gives at his size, but Im starting to realize why he didn't stick at those other places. He needs Crowder on the court with him if he is going to continue to start.

[tazzmaniac]

Don't think I've seen this article posted with Ainge's reflections on the team.  Comments on the defensive rebounding issue and defense in general.  Also this comment on our level of talent.  Hopefully we'll see a trade before too long to improve the talent level of the team.

A lot of teams have a lot more room for error, and they’re that talented of a team where they can not play their best and still win. But we need to play really good basketball in order to win against all the teams in the league. There’s a lot of parity in our league, and winning is tough.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/11/bulpett_danny_ainge_ok_with_celtics_learning_the_hard_way

[tarheelsxxiii]

The fact is even with Horford healthy we need another center/big to create a different look, and provide backup.

Amir, Zeller, and Mickey aren't cutting it.

I will say this...I'm wondering how Kelly and Al would work together. I don't think they'll get in each others way. Horford could defend the speeder big.

Kelly's defensive numbers have been surprisingly good over the past few seasons. Offensively, it could work too. Either one can help spread the floor and get the defense out of the paint for the other one to try to get something going in the post. And both would help Isaiah and Jae and Avery to slash to the rim thanks to the spacing. You'd literally have 5 shooters in the starting lineup. although, that means the bench doesn't have any shooters lol

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[alldaboston]

The fact is even with Horford healthy we need another center/big to create a different look, and provide backup.

Amir, Zeller, and Mickey aren't cutting it.

I will say this...I'm wondering how Kelly and Al would work together. I don't think they'll get in each others way. Horford could defend the speeder big.

Kelly's defensive numbers have been surprisingly good over the past few seasons. Offensively, it could work too. Either one can help spread the floor and get the defense out of the paint for the other one to try to get something going in the post. And both would help Isaiah and Jae and Avery to slash to the rim thanks to the spacing. You'd literally have 5 shooters in the starting lineup. although, that means the bench doesn't have any shooters lol

Dear valued CsBlog member (alldaboston),

Thank you for another rich contribution to this thread and the community at large. Unfortunately, the bolded portion of your post has sent our well-developed CsBlog FactChecker^TM into quite a kerfuffle. Specifically, the first word of your sentence is not capitalized and, as a consequence, the validity of your post cannot be established. 

Edits can be made to your post by following a specific sequence of actions:

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2. Click the right-justified "modify" button above your post.
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[LGC88]

It is logical to lose without our key players.
It is not normal to lose that way. IT being the best C's rebounder in DC says it all.
The next man up is not fighting for his minutes. You can lose and still show some hustle. It is not what we are watching and what we were doing the (almost) last 2 seasons.
Something is going on. We don't know what is it, maybe chemistry, maybe a trade is coming and they know it, we'll see soon.
I miss the hustle, I'm so bored watching them right now.

[tankcity!]

What does losing all stars have to do with effort? We've had less talent on the floor and beaten teams like the Wizards. There are no excuses for this teams energy. I think that is what is concerning the most.

Yes they can still go on a win streak when the starters come back, but if they have lost that edge they once had, then I don't know what makes them any different from the Bobcats honestly.

[Moranis]

What does losing all stars have to do with effort? We've had less talent on the floor and beaten teams like the Wizards. There are no excuses for this teams energy. I think that is what is concerning the most.

Yes they can still go on a win streak when the starters come back, but if they have lost that edge they once had, then I don't know what makes them any different from the Bobcats honestly.

Well for one, the Bobcats don't exist.

And for two, Charlotte is a very good team.  They had the same record as Boston last year and appear to have gotten better this year with the return of MKG. 

[Dennis_D]

The thing is that everyone on the roster has played. Last season, the C's held their opponents to an ORtg of 103.6 and snagged 74.6% of defensive rebounds. They've had one game this season were they did at least as well on both of those stats, the game against Charlotte. In all other games, the other team has had a ORtg of at least 105.1. Their defensive rebounding has been all over the place, with three of their sevens games better than last year's average. The team has been inconsistent and their struggles doesn't seem to be tied to injuries.

Looking at the games:
Game 1 at home vs Nets - Win
* Smart and KO were out
* Gave up 110 points to a team averaging 103.6 otherwise (ORtg 113.6)
* Rebounded 70% of defensive rebounds

Game 2 on road vs Bulls - Loss
* Smart and KO were out
* Held opponent to 105 when they average 106.2 otherwise (ORtg 111.5)
* Rebounded 64.7% of defensive rebounds (Bulls got 92.5% of def rebounds)

Game 3 on road vs Hornets - Win
* Smart and KO were out
* Held Charlotte to 98 when they average 106.2 otherwise (ORtg 103.6)
* Rebounded 86.4% of defensive rebounds
* Best game of the year

Game 4 at home vs Bulls - Win
* Horford and KO were out, Crowder played 14 minutes before getting injured
* Held opponent to 100 when they average 106.2 otherwise (ORtg 105.1)
* Rebounded 65.9% of defensive rebounds

Game 5 on road vs Cavs - Loss
* Horford, Crowder and KO were out
* Gave up 128 points to a team averaging 108.6 otherwise (ORtg 128.8 )
* Rebounded 80.6% of defensive rebounds

Game 6 at home vs Nuggets - Loss
* Horford, Crowder and KO were out
* Gave up 123 points to a team averaging 102.5 otherwise (ORtg 122.6)
* Rebounded 75.7% of defensive rebounds

Game 7 on road vs Wizards - Loss
* Horford and Crowder were out
* Gave up 118 points to a team averaging 98.6 otherwise (ORtg 129.8 )
* Rebounded 55.8% of defensive rebounds