Nerlens - about to be traded?

[Big333223]

Obviously we want as many shooters are possible but alongside Olynyk or a small ball 4 (like Crowder, Jerebko, or Brown) he could be a pretty devastating pick and roller.

You have to be able to do anything on offense beside score garbage points to be devastating.  The much dreaded Tyler Zeller is devastating compared to Noel.

That's foolish. Noel is much more athletic and at least as skilled as Zeller around the basket.

The problem with that is that his hands are awful. If his hands were good, like a Howard, Chandler, Drummond, Jordan, etc., he'd be a nice option as a rim runner. But his hands are Perkins level bad. That's something that just doesn't improve. You're either born with them or not.

I just totally disagree with this assessment. I don't know where this idea comes from. He's not Olajuwon, but what you're describing I just don't agree with.

I'm not exaggerating. His hands are awful and they've been that way since Kentucky. If you think I'm making this stuff up here are some exact viewpoints from actual Sixers' fans on the matter. Fans that have likely watched him more than anyone on this board, save for one.

When it comes to something like this, you can post all the opinions you like but there is video that exists of Nerlens Noel playing basketball and from what I've seen his hands aren't bad. Again, not saying they're great but they're not bad.

He's not a post up guy but he still averaged 11ppg last season in under 30mpg almost exclusively on lobs and rolling to the rim, which means catching on the run and finishing.

[saltlover]

I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but Colangelo even basically admits that he isn't talking about an extension with Noel because he doesn't really want to be there and is mad at the team for how everything has gone down.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/10/sixers-nerlens-noel-not-discussing-extension.html

I'd love to have Noek, and he could legitimately turn us into a historically good defense. But the thing that I'm guessing is pausing Danny is flexibility with trades. For example, if Boogie finally becomes available this season, then a trade for Noek before that would just be wasted assets.

See, my opinion is if Boogie becomes available, Noel will be more useful in such a trade than a lot of our other young players.  He has the most elite NBA skill (shot-blocking), is a marketable name (SAC needs that), and makes a larger salary and so creates more salary matching options.  I'm pro-Noel (for a reasonable cost of no more than Rozier and one of Hunter/Young) in part because I think he brings us a step closer to Boogie after being deployed in a defensive system that plays to his strengths, such as the one we run.

[MBunge]

I just checked and it it pretty hilarious to see Philly fans losing their minds over Embiid when he's averaging fewer minutes in the preseason than Nik Stauskus.  The guy is 22, over a year removed from his last injury and the team is still treating him like he's Mr. Glass from Unbreakable.

Mike

Hey, it's over here on CB, too. People are losing their minds over what he's doing in the very limited minutes he's getting. I assume that's because people think it will naturally extrapolate out in those rates to 36 minutes, which of course is non-sense, but I'm betting he looks much less impressive when the real season starts and he plays actual starter minutes.

I don't begrudge fans getting excited.  I've been very hopeful about Smart even after he spent the last two seasons looking like he'd have trouble throwing a basketball into the Atlantic Ocean.  And Embiid has played fairly well but the way they're taking Embiid being a surefire Hall of Famer for granted is really amusing.

Of course, if Embiid does turn out to be the second coming of Hakeem Olajuwon, the Hinkie-heads might get the last laugh but it's like they can't bring themselves to even imagine any lesser outcome.

Mike

[celticsclay]

It would be good to have LB weigh in on this. He seems to have the most in depth knowledge of the situation.

[SHAQATTACK]

Wow that is a lot of research into Noel's hands

So long as he does NOT have "Bass" hands...

[aingeforthree]

No way Smart or Rozier are in any Noel deal. Too much upside to part with.

I see Olynyk as the main cog

[SHAQATTACK]

No way in the world you swap Smart for Noel

If Smart goes it's got to be for a serious serious trade .

I d send Rozier and RJ  and 2nd rounder .

I would trade KO for Noel ....but Danny won't ....one of HIS boys. ...LOL

[Csfan1984]

No way Smart or Rozier are in any Noel deal. Too much upside to part with.

I see Olynyk as the main cog

I actually think it has to be KO, Hunter and Rozier for Noel and Covington . Embid has made Noel expendable and 76ers could use Rozier and KO badly.

[jpotter33]

I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but Colangelo even basically admits that he isn't talking about an extension with Noel because he doesn't really want to be there and is mad at the team for how everything has gone down.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/10/sixers-nerlens-noel-not-discussing-extension.html

I'd love to have Noek, and he could legitimately turn us into a historically good defense. But the thing that I'm guessing is pausing Danny is flexibility with trades. For example, if Boogie finally becomes available this season, then a trade for Noek before that would just be wasted assets.

See, my opinion is if Boogie becomes available, Noel will be more useful in such a trade than a lot of our other young players.  He has the most elite NBA skill (shot-blocking), is a marketable name (SAC needs that), and makes a larger salary and so creates more salary matching options.  I'm pro-Noel (for a reasonable cost of no more than Rozier and one of Hunter/Young) in part because I think he brings us a step closer to Boogie after being deployed in a defensive system that plays to his strengths, such as the one we run.

Even with Sacramento's 1,000,000 centers? I mean, they already have WCS, who isn't that much worse than Noel. I feel like you'd have to ship him off to a third team somewhere, like Phoenix, in order to include him in such a deal.

[saltlover]

I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but Colangelo even basically admits that he isn't talking about an extension with Noel because he doesn't really want to be there and is mad at the team for how everything has gone down.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/10/sixers-nerlens-noel-not-discussing-extension.html

I'd love to have Noek, and he could legitimately turn us into a historically good defense. But the thing that I'm guessing is pausing Danny is flexibility with trades. For example, if Boogie finally becomes available this season, then a trade for Noek before that would just be wasted assets.

See, my opinion is if Boogie becomes available, Noel will be more useful in such a trade than a lot of our other young players.  He has the most elite NBA skill (shot-blocking), is a marketable name (SAC needs that), and makes a larger salary and so creates more salary matching options.  I'm pro-Noel (for a reasonable cost of no more than Rozier and one of Hunter/Young) in part because I think he brings us a step closer to Boogie after being deployed in a defensive system that plays to his strengths, such as the one we run.

Even with Sacramento's 1,000,000 centers? I mean, they already have WCS, who isn't that much worse than Noel. I feel like you'd have to ship him off to a third team somewhere, like Phoenix, in order to include him in such a deal.

I think it's pretty clear that Sac (Divac) loves centers.  I don't think it's rational, but I think it's true.  Divac still thinks basketball is played like it's 1996, not 2016.

[LarBrd33]

I tended to agree with LB that even if Noel was not playing tons of minutes this year it wouldn't really hurt his value a ton because teams still would view him the same. Now I wonder if Noel is doing the one thing that could actually hurt his value, appearing as a malcontent that causes chemistry issues if he does not like his role seems like a dangerous reputation to add the year before you enter free agency.

i tend to agree that he could sit out this whole season and teams would still have a ton of interest in him as an elite rim protector.  You don't simply forget.   People still think Larry sanders is a good idea.  I imagine this Noel situation will be taken care of itself this season eventually.

It's funny because as I watch Rozier tear it up in a nationally televised game, you can see his trade value going up in real-time.  You start to wonder if Philly would get desperate and move Noel for Rozier. But then I start to wonder if I have any interest as a Celtic fan seeing us trade away one of the only guys who has been able to consistently hit shots and has shown legitimate improvement.

Smart for Noel still makes some sense for Boston ... especially if Rozier is legit.  Though I still don't see it for Philly.  They need someone who can spread the floor and hit shots.  Jordan Clarkson for Noel makes sense for both teams but they'd need to wait until December 15th to make that trade.

[tazzmaniac]

Noel's stone hands stigma comes from the beginning of his 1st season.  On offense he was deer in the headlights bad.  He doesn't have great hands but it was more poor concentration  thinking about what he was going to do after he caught the ball.  One plus is that Noel is actually a pretty good passer. 

I used to want Noel but now I'm not sure that I do.  Partially its his recent attitude.  You don't hear Okafor complaining about them halving 3 starting centers.  Yes Noel is in a contract year but he should have said its a tough situation but he'd work his hardest to get wins for the Sixers and then see what happens in the offseason.  Instead it seems like he looked at Embiid and Okafor and judged himself to be 3rd best and is pouting about it.  The other reason is his inability to play PF defensively last season.  He's got the physical attributes to do so.  I just think it is a mental block and his attitude.  He could improve his value significantly if he showed he could defend PF.  Right now he's just a small ball defensive center.   

The Sixers should trade Noel if they get a reasonable offer.  If not, give him the qualifying offer and see what happens.  I can't see him getting anywhere near MAX.  I think it will be around 4yr/60-72mil.  There are not many teams that need Noel and would have the cap space.  If a team does make an offer, it ties up their cap space while the Sixers can wait three days to decide whether to match.   

[LarBrd33]

It should be noted at this point that Noel isn't really "complaining".  It was one interview in which he was asked about the situation and he gave a candid answer that everyone already knew - it's a log jam.

He hasn't been playing because he has a groin strain.  Any idea that he's intentionally sitting out or causing problems being the scenes is purely speculation.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Noel's stone hands stigma comes from the beginning of his 1st season.  On offense he was deer in the headlights bad.  He doesn't have great hands but it was more poor concentration  thinking about what he was going to do after he caught the ball.  One plus is that Noel is actually a pretty good passer. 

I used to want Noel but now I'm not sure that I do.  Partially its his recent attitude.  You don't hear Okafor complaining about them halving 3 starting centers.  Yes Noel is in a contract year but he should have said its a tough situation but he'd work his hardest to get wins for the Sixers and then see what happens in the offseason.  Instead it seems like he looked at Embiid and Okafor and judged himself to be 3rd best and is pouting about it.  The other reason is his inability to play PF defensively last season.  He's got the physical attributes to do so.  I just think it is a mental block and his attitude.  He could improve his value significantly if he showed he could defend PF.  Right now he's just a small ball defensive center.   

The Sixers should trade Noel if they get a reasonable offer.  If not, give him the qualifying offer and see what happens.  I can't see him getting anywhere near MAX.  I think it will be around 4yr/60-72mil.  There are not many teams that need Noel and would have the cap space.  If a team does make an offer, it ties up their cap space while the Sixers can wait three days to decide whether to match.

I can't believe I'm about to do this but...

Noel's been through some stuff. I don't think it'd have been an issue if we'd taken anybody but Okafor, but hey that's what Hinkie did. He's been a good soldier for a crap team, played without PGs who can create shots for him despite the fact that he can get to lobs only maybe 2-3 Centers in the NBA can get to, and despite all this anchored a top 10-12 defense when he actually got to play the position he should have.

He's an unreal defender, made progress on his FTs, finishes at the rim at an elite level, and is the most versatile big man defender in the NBA aside from maybe AD.

Yeah, he's p---ed he's going to be the 3rd guy in a rotation despite being in a contract year. He's carried the weight and feels like he's getting chucked to the curb.

If you guys can swing a deal for below market value, a real possibility barring an issue for the Sixers of trading to the C's you should be ecstatic.

[tazzmaniac]

I just checked and it it pretty hilarious to see Philly fans losing their minds over Embiid when he's averaging fewer minutes in the preseason than Nik Stauskus.  The guy is 22, over a year removed from his last injury and the team is still treating him like he's Mr. Glass from Unbreakable.

Mike

Hey, it's over here on CB, too. People are losing their minds over what he's doing in the very limited minutes he's getting. I assume that's because people think it will naturally extrapolate out in those rates to 36 minutes, which of course is non-sense, but I'm betting he looks much less impressive when the real season starts and he plays actual starter minutes.

I don't begrudge fans getting excited.  I've been very hopeful about Smart even after he spent the last two seasons looking like he'd have trouble throwing a basketball into the Atlantic Ocean.  And Embiid has played fairly well but the way they're taking Embiid being a surefire Hall of Famer for granted is really amusing.

Of course, if Embiid does turn out to be the second coming of Hakeem Olajuwon, the Hinkie-heads might get the last laugh but it's like they can't bring themselves to even imagine any lesser outcome.

Mike

It's been two years of waiting so there is pent up excitement.  I also expected a lot more rust than he's shown so far.  I'm also surprised at the improvement he's shown so far over his college play.  I expected the improved strength but he appears quicker too.  He's shooting 3s now and his FT% is much improved.  He apparently already talks a lot on defense.  I love his personality.  He's got this drive to be great but with such a playful, joyful attitude.  Other than the health issue, I just don't see any significant question marks. 

That doesn't mean that he isn't going to struggle like any other rookie.  Playing an NBA season is a grueling experience that he'll have to adapt to.  His biggest problem will be the Sixers' lousy guard play.  There's no reason not to double team Embiid in the post.  When Simmons gets back that will be a big plus to Embiid's offense.