15/16 vs 16/17 Celtics team

[trickybilly]

Apart from the obvious, i.e. Horford , I just think that guys are getting more used to playing together and anticipating cuts and using weakside movement distraction more effectively. The defense will be elite again this year. The biggest factor which will determine how many games we'll win will be our old nemesis - shooting. Small sample, but it looks like Rozier has improved greatly, Jonas still deadly, Horford looks like peak-Dirk at the moment, and Jae seems to have improved as well. It's just our old friend Marcus Smart that seems to stuck in the mud.

P.S Does Al Horford have a nickname yet? Big Papi is freed up again!

[timpiker]

I think Horford makes us better although its not in the 55 win territory nor do I think we are the 2nd best team in the East.  I think we'll get a home team spot in the playoffs, barring injuries.  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector and crunch time scorer.  And, Evan Turner meant a good deal to this team last year and will be missed.  The key to the year will be Jaylen Brown.  Can he/will he become a young Paul Pierce?

[alldaboston]

I think Horford makes us better although its not in the 55 win territory nor do I think we are the 2nd best team in the East.  I think we'll get a home team spot in the playoffs, barring injuries.  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector and crunch time scorer.  And, Evan Turner meant a good deal to this team last year and will be missed.  The key to the year will be Jaylen Brown.  Can he/will he become a young Paul Pierce?

I'm very worried about this one. Turner did a lot of that last year for us, as the only other guy who could make his own shot. Can anyone else do that on this team aside from Isaiah? I think Horford, while he's a great pickup, isn't always the guy you're gonna give the ball to with 30 sec left and say "ok, go tie the game up". I trusted Evan to do that. I dont know yet if i trust anyone aside from Isaiah to do that.

[Snakehead]

  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector

Still the most overrated "requirements" that every fan thinks you need.  Horford is one of the absolute best bigs in the league defensively but he is not a "rim protector" so we have not addressed anything.... that thinking is just so silly.

[CelticPride2016]

I used to worry about rim protection going way back into the Doc era. Perk and KG were good, but we never seemed to develop a decent backup or replace them.

The league has changed and so has our roster. The tiny guys Sully, Bass, and Humphries are gone. That has to be the first time tiny and Sully have been in the same sentence. Humphries actually seemed to be our best rim protector in Stevens' year one.

Amir Johnson was a step in the right direction. Olynyk and Zeller have not shown consistency at center defense. But now we add Horford to Amir and we are better than average. It's about rim protection, not necessary blocking shots.

The two biggest threats to the Celtics piling up wins are rebounding and if we hoist up a lot of bricks.

I think we are underrated at rebounding. But if we don't hold our own, then we won't get second chances. On the other end, we could put on a defensive clinic only to miss the rebound.

I try to stay positive.

[tankcity!]

  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector

Still the most overrated "requirements" that every fan thinks you need.  Horford is one of the absolute best bigs in the league defensively but he is not a "rim protector" so we have not addressed anything.... that thinking is just so silly.

Sure looked great against Lebron and Irving last year....I think it's pretty obvious Amir will need to step up in the paint.

[The Oracle]

  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector

Still the most overrated "requirements" that every fan thinks you need.  Horford is one of the absolute best bigs in the league defensively but he is not a "rim protector" so we have not addressed anything.... that thinking is just so silly.

Sure looked great against Lebron and Irving last year....I think it's pretty obvious Amir will need to step up in the paint.

Rim protection is extremely overrated, you must defend the entire floor well.  Atlanta last year against Cleveland was very solid protecting the rim.  They got lit up from the 3 pt. line, Cleveland was a ridiculous 77-152 50.7% from 3 in the 4 games.  Defending the 3 pt. line is paramount in the NBA now and Atlanta's choice to pack it in and defend the rim was their downfall.

[Snakehead]

  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector

Still the most overrated "requirements" that every fan thinks you need.  Horford is one of the absolute best bigs in the league defensively but he is not a "rim protector" so we have not addressed anything.... that thinking is just so silly.

Sure looked great against Lebron and Irving last year....I think it's pretty obvious Amir will need to step up in the paint.

Rim protection is extremely overrated, you must defend the entire floor well.  Atlanta last year against Cleveland was very solid protecting the rim.  They got lit up from the 3 pt. line, Cleveland was a ridiculous 77-152 50.7% from 3 in the 4 games.  Defending the 3 pt. line is paramount in the NBA now and Atlanta's choice to pack it in and defend the rim was their downfall.

Very much agreed.  3 pt line and defending the pick and roll are IMO the keys.  Celtics are primed to have both as major strengths next year.  C's were very weak against the pick and roll last year and that is an area Horford is strong.

Part of it about "rim protection" is what else you are giving up.  So just play some stiff who blocks shots because you just have to? 

Give me a guy like Horford who is versatile on offense, can defend pick and roll, and yes one of the better bigs in the league as far as defense who can block a perfectly acceptable amount of shots.

[Evantime34]

When comparing last year's team to this year's version you have to remember that a this time last year David Lee and Tyler Zeller were the starters.

Horford isn't just an upgrade over Sullinger, but he's a huge upgrade over the consistent minutes that Lee was playing early season last year.

[tankcity!]

  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector

Still the most overrated "requirements" that every fan thinks you need.  Horford is one of the absolute best bigs in the league defensively but he is not a "rim protector" so we have not addressed anything.... that thinking is just so silly.

Sure looked great against Lebron and Irving last year....I think it's pretty obvious Amir will need to step up in the paint.

Rim protection is extremely overrated, you must defend the entire floor well.  Atlanta last year against Cleveland was very solid protecting the rim.  They got lit up from the 3 pt. line, Cleveland was a ridiculous 77-152 50.7% from 3 in the 4 games.  Defending the 3 pt. line is paramount in the NBA now and Atlanta's choice to pack it in and defend the rim was their downfall.

You're right. I forgot how Atlanta clogged the paint last year. They did that to us and tried to do  it with Cleveland. The only question I would have is isn't Atlanta supposed to have a good perimeter defense? I mean how effective were Horford and Milsap in pick and roll if they're nailing threes. Do you know for sure it was the guard play that caused the mishap on D?

I think rim protection is important if you don't have Lebron. However, GS was hurting last year without Bogut. Durant has always had rim protection. When the Pacers were good they had rim protection. Let's see how good at defense this Warriors team is since Green will basically be playing center most of the time I imagine. Unlike last year when it would only be at the end.

[Snakehead]

You're right. I forgot how Atlanta clogged the paint last year. They did that to us and tried to do  it with Cleveland. The only question I would have is isn't Atlanta supposed to have a good perimeter defense? I mean how effective were Horford and Milsap in pick and roll if they're nailing threes. Do you know for sure it was the guard play that caused the mishap on D?

I think rim protection is important if you don't have Lebron. However, GS was hurting last year without Bogut. Durant has always had rim protection. When the Pacers were good they had rim protection. Let's see how good at defense this Warriors team is since Green will basically be playing center most of the time I imagine. Unlike last year when it would only be at the end.

I don't think Atlanta has any guard so impressive on defense at all (certainly not on Smart, Bradley, or Crowder levels) and I think part of the confusion here is what you even mean by rim protection.  I think you are including here much more than that idea.  A big who has size, can box out, rebound, play pick and roll defense, get the ball and make the right pass is important for sure but that is not really "shot blocking" which is what people are so obsessed with.  Horford does all those things and could for say GS but does not meet peoples "rim protector" requirement.  You mention the Pacers being good, but they were not a contending team.

The problem with GS was not just that Bogut was out, it was that they bigs they have after him were just not good at any of the previously mentioned things.   They just were not really good players.  Varejao is really bad now.  I can see GS having that same problem again this year actually, with even less room for error given they lost Bogut.

The thing for me is just looking again at what a guy who blocks shots brings elsewhere.  I just think a fair amount of guys that fall in that category can't do a bunch of other things on the floor and also are overpaid, sacrificing further for the whole of the team across the roster.   The sacrifice isn't worth it.

[The Oracle]

  My 2 biggest areas of concern is still true - rim protector

Still the most overrated "requirements" that every fan thinks you need.  Horford is one of the absolute best bigs in the league defensively but he is not a "rim protector" so we have not addressed anything.... that thinking is just so silly.

Sure looked great against Lebron and Irving last year....I think it's pretty obvious Amir will need to step up in the paint.

Rim protection is extremely overrated, you must defend the entire floor well.  Atlanta last year against Cleveland was very solid protecting the rim.  They got lit up from the 3 pt. line, Cleveland was a ridiculous 77-152 50.7% from 3 in the 4 games.  Defending the 3 pt. line is paramount in the NBA now and Atlanta's choice to pack it in and defend the rim was their downfall.

You're right. I forgot how Atlanta clogged the paint last year. They did that to us and tried to do  it with Cleveland. The only question I would have is isn't Atlanta supposed to have a good perimeter defense? I mean how effective were Horford and Milsap in pick and roll if they're nailing threes. Do you know for sure it was the guard play that caused the mishap on D?

I think rim protection is important if you don't have Lebron. However, GS was hurting last year without Bogut. Durant has always had rim protection. When the Pacers were good they had rim protection. Let's see how good at defense this Warriors team is since Green will basically be playing center most of the time I imagine. Unlike last year when it would only be at the end.

The single biggest misconception about perimeter defense is that it is done solely by guards and wings.  Big men are tremendously important in defending the 3 point line.  Defending the pick and pop, and being able to switch capably onto shooters coming off of screens is huge.  Most rim protectors are incapable of defending the 3 point line and are being exploited tremendously.  With the expansion of the game outward guys like Hibbert and Asik are worthless as defenders because they are far to immobile to defend anywhere outside the paint and are just sitting ducks waiting to be exploited.

[Snakehead]

Your post in addition to mine frames it really nicely Oracle.  TP.

[PhoSita]

When comparing last year's team to this year's version you have to remember that a this time last year David Lee and Tyler Zeller were the starters.

Horford isn't just an upgrade over Sullinger, but he's a huge upgrade over the consistent minutes that Lee was playing early season last year.

This is a great point.

The Celts actually have a very good starting lineup now that Horford is in town, and the other four starters have a good amount of experience playing together, which bodes well.

Barring an injury, the Celts are set to enter this season in much, much, much better shape than they entered last season.

[PhoSita]

With the expansion of the game outward guys like Hibbert and Asik are worthless as defenders because they are far to immobile to defend anywhere outside the paint and are just sitting ducks waiting to be exploited.

This is true for most teams. However, some teams have started to figure out ways to work around this issue.

Charlotte is the best example -- Clifford managed to coach them into a top 10 defense last year despite the fact that Al Jefferson was getting a lot of minutes at center.

I think as teams adjust and adapt to this switch-heavy perimeter oriented era, smart coaches will figure out how to keep less mobile, paint-bound big men on the floor without sacrificing defense too much.  Big Al's defensive ratings over his three years in Charlotte were a very acceptable 100, 100, and 102.  He's hardly more mobile than Hibbert or Asik, and has considerably less height / length.