Rozier might be the real deal

[tankcity!]

I'm optimistic about Terry as well but I feel obligated to bring up that he played pretty well in last year's pre-season too.

Yeah just gonna post that here again.

Also, it's pre-season. Let's not say anything for sure until we see these kids play in an actual game, but say we do take pre-season performances seriously. If you look at the +/-, Smart has had a MUCH bigger impact on the team's play than Rozier. My honest opinion: Smart's threeball is still broken, in fact he may never be a good 3-point shooter, but everywhere else he has looked pretty darn good. His mid-range game looks solid. His distributing skills look good. His defense and tenacity look as great as ever. While Rozier has looked good, it hasn't led to much good. In fact, his defense hasn't looked as good as I had hoped, but don't take my word for it. Let's compare the +/- of the two of them

Marcus's +/- in these 5 games: -8, +1, +11, +14, +11
Terry's: -4, -10, +2, -2, +3

Marcus's +/- has been +19.
Terry's +/- has been -11.
Smart beats Terry in +/- by 30. That to me is pretty telling.

Finally I think Rozier may not have played much tonight because of that hip pointer they were talking about earlier but who knows? I want to reiterate: it's pre-season but I think if anyone's going to make a bigger impact this season, it's Marcus Smart.

I'd prefer if you used RPM instead...Second, only time will tell at this point. Very frustrating to see this board so negative towards Rozier when this is his second year and Smart looked pretty garbage last year. I don't care about plus minus last year, that guy played like crap until the playoffs. But we let it go because we love Smart and don't want to give Rozier credit when it is due.

[MJohnnyboy]

I'm optimistic about Terry as well but I feel obligated to bring up that he played pretty well in last year's pre-season too.

Yeah just gonna post that here again.

Also, it's pre-season. Let's not say anything for sure until we see these kids play in an actual game, but say we do take pre-season performances seriously. If you look at the +/-, Smart has had a MUCH bigger impact on the team's play than Rozier. My honest opinion: Smart's threeball is still broken, in fact he may never be a good 3-point shooter, but everywhere else he has looked pretty darn good. His mid-range game looks solid. His distributing skills look good. His defense and tenacity look as great as ever. While Rozier has looked good, it hasn't led to much good. In fact, his defense hasn't looked as good as I had hoped, but don't take my word for it. Let's compare the +/- of the two of them

Marcus's +/- in these 5 games: -8, +1, +11, +14, +11
Terry's: -4, -10, +2, -2, +3

Marcus's +/- has been +19.
Terry's +/- has been -11.
Smart beats Terry in +/- by 30. That to me is pretty telling.

Finally I think Rozier may not have played much tonight because of that hip pointer they were talking about earlier but who knows? I want to reiterate: it's pre-season but I think if anyone's going to make a bigger impact this season, it's Marcus Smart.

I'd prefer if you used RPM instead...Second, only time will tell at this point. Very frustrating to see this board so negative towards Rozier when this is his second year and Smart looked pretty garbage last year. I don't care about plus minus last year, that guy played like crap until the playoffs. But we let it go because we love Smart and don't want to give Rozier credit when it is due.

Offensively yes he did, but defensively he was still pretty good which made him quite useful. I am cautiously optimistic about both of these guys although I can't say I like them playing together. Would it comfort you if I said I think both have a good future in basketball? I see Smart as a guy who makes a great impact on a team even if he's not an offensively sound player. I see Rozier as a scoring punch. Both have done what I thought they would do.

I wasn't trying to be negative about Rozier. In fact, I don't think anyone has really shown negativity on Rozier's game. Negativity is "Rozier sucks" or for example, "(X player) played like crap until the playoffs". That's negativity. I think the better phrase is "Cautious Optimism". I like him and I really hope he plays well this year. I was simply making my contribution to the topic. The debate was who has been better between the two. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I could totally see why people think Rozier's played better, His shot looks good and he's looked more confident, but I still disagree. I say Smart because Smart's contributions by +/- standards have helped the team more than Rozier by a landslide.


Also fun fact, they are 11 days apart in age.

[crimson_stallion]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

Please, let's not pass off opinion as if it's fact. 

Every time Rozier has gone off in the second half of games it's been because nobody else on the second unit has been capable of producing ANY kind of offense, and he's had no choice but to either shoulder the load, or watch the team lose.

Each time he's shouldered the load, and he's single handedly carried the team back in to the game.

Smart makes the occasional big play on defence here and there that can sway a game - I don't deny that, and as I said I appreciate it greatly.  Over the court of a game he might get one steal, might collect one loose ball, might get one aggressive putback off an offensive board. 

Almost every game Rozier has had a point where he's had to go on an 8-10 point scoring spree to bring the team back in the game, and he's proven that when he has to score, he can do so pretty much at will.

When he's not scoring it's because he's been shrugging off potential scoring opportunities and giving it up to others with the aim of trying to be a good teammate.  He only forces the issue on offence when he has no other choice because everybody else on the court is useless offensively, and he's had to take over.   

How many times have you seen him chuck up a mountain of shots when he's been playing with the starters?  I haven't seen it once so far n the preseason.  Because he knows there are veterans on the court who can score the ball, so he's giving it up to those guys.

If ANYBODY on this team is a black hole it's Smart.  He's taken seventeen three point shots in 5 games so far and has made THREE of them!!!

That's 3.4 attempts per game in 22 MPG - 5.5 three point attempts Per 36.  From a guy who shot 25% from three last year on (that's right!) 5.3 attempts per 36 minutes. 

How in god's name can anybody call Rozier a black hole when:

1) He's taking less shots then Smart
2) He's making more shots then Smart
3) He's averaging more assists then Smart
4) He's averaging less turnovers then Smart

I don't care if Smart can't shoot threes, every player has limitations - just stop freaking shooting them!!!  It's the darn Jared Sullinger fiasco all over again.  If you can't shoot, then don't bloody shoot.

People talk about all the extra possessions Smart creates with those two or three hustle plays.  How many extra possessions does he potentially give the defence with all the long rebounds that come from the (almost certain) three point bricks that he keeps chucking up? 

I understand the guy has to improve, and you have to take shots to improve your shooting.  Fine.  So take one or two a game.  If you're wide open - shoot it.  Don't throw up contested threes every time you touch the ball.

Granted, his offense game inside the three point line has improved dramatically - kudos for that.  His shooting pretty well from midrange, finally trying to take advantage of his size in the post, doing a better job of finishing when he gets to the basket.  He deserves recognition for that.   

But he still needs to be intelligent enough to understand what is a good shot and what is a bad shot, and for him any three point attempt that isn't WIDE OPEN is a downright hideous shot.

People here talk about Smart playing within the offence / himself. How is a a 29% career three point shooter taking more then five 3PA Per 36 Minutes playing within the offence / within himself??? 

Rozier is, by the most basic definition, playing within himself:

1)  He's only taking shots he can make - that's evidenced by the fact that his shooting percentages have been so high throughout the entire preseason.

2) He's not forcing all the offence himself and is looking for teammates - that's evidenced by the fact that his assist rate has been so solid throughout the preseason

3) He's not trying to force poor passes or overzealous dribble moves - that's evidenced by the fact that his turnover rate has been so low throughout the preseason

Rozier's play so far has been the very definition of "playing within himself and within the offence".  Along with Horford he's been the most efficient player on the team.  It's easy to see by watching the games, and if you don't have time to do that then the stats don't lie. 

Smart plays hard.  He fights constantly, works for everything, battles all the times.  That's great, and it's appreciated.  He impacts every game with his hustle. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he's slow, he has a terrible jumper, he a merely 'adequate' passer, he can't dribble, and he's got the shot-selection discipline of Josh Smith...and the last part is especially troubling considering that he's going into his third year of playing starter-like minutes, and should know better by now. 

Also you said he's dominated large parts of games - I disagree.  He's dominated small 2 or 3 minute blocks of games.  When Smart is "dominating" it's because he's just knocked away a ball leading to a fast break, and then two minutes later had a nice put-back off an offensive board. Then you'll hear nothing of him for a quarter and a half later when he jumps on the floor after a loose ball.

Rozier has dominated for entire 5-10 minute stretches, and he's done so in multiple games during this preseason.

There was a game in the playoffs last year where I would agree with your statement and say that Smart dominated large parts of that game. There were a handful of regular season games where I'd say the same.  The fast majority of the time he just gets the job done adequately, with the occasionally especially hustle play or two thrown in for good measure.  This whole "dominates large stretches of games" claim is, in my honest opinion, laughable.   

[jpotter33]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

TBH you are bias towards Smart. Never really seen you criticize him, even last year when he was garbage until the playoffs.

Smart has looked pretty good in the preseason, but so has Rozier. If you're saying Rozier's stats are misleading because of the level of competition, then so are Smart's. You can't have it both ways.

Basically, a person who has the ability to create his own shot, and has the potential to be an impact on defense is better than a role player. I mean you want Smart to start over IT. Yes, IT's stats are misleading because BS is a great coach, but Smart has the same coach! I mean you are nuts for saying that they shouldn't start IT. I just can't wait for the regular season to start so Rozier can just shut everyone up at this point. We should be happy he's good, not insecure he's going to steal Smart's minutes.

When in the hell did I ever say Smart should start over IT? I HOPE that he ends up winning the spot by the end of the year, but that's a totally different argument than what you're saying, which is a strawman argument. And nobody's insecure that a mid first round pick that barely touched the floor last year is going to steal Smart's minutes - you know, the guy that averaged over 27 minutes a game his first two years. 

I'll outright say that Smart is my favorite player by far, but if you've paid attention, then I've routinely criticized Smart when it's warranted. I always discuss how his three point shot selection needs to improve, along with his finishing at the basket, among other things.

However, I've always been a vocal proponent, along with several others here, that we haven't put Smart in the position to succeed. He's always been played out of position off the ball, and he's looked terrible doing so. However, look just how much better he's been this preseason due to being the primary ball-handler. He's dominated large portions of games, which seems to validate this argument that many of us have been pushing.

As for Rozier, I really like Rozier, and I hope he keeps developing. But his play has been blown WAY out of proportion on here, especially when compared with the unfair high levels of criticism that Smart constantly has thrown at him on here. Essentially, it's the anti-Smart people really pushing this whole exaggerated Rozier narrative on here, because there's ulterior motives for doing so. He's played decently so far, but it is preseason and he's largely played against the bench players and third stringers. Smart regularly plays against the starters and the bench players, and he's usually done for the night by the time the third stringers are in, which is where Rozier usually does his damage.

But I agree - let's all stop this hype until the kid actually plays significant minutes (that aren't due to an injury to one of our regulars) in a regular season game against rotation-caliber opponents before hailing him as a future star. Honestly, at this point I just hope he ends up getting traded for a frontcourt upgrade so that we can all stop hearing all about these exaggerated claims extrapolated from good play in summer league and preseason bench warmer time.

[tankcity!]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

TBH you are bias towards Smart. Never really seen you criticize him, even last year when he was garbage until the playoffs.

Smart has looked pretty good in the preseason, but so has Rozier. If you're saying Rozier's stats are misleading because of the level of competition, then so are Smart's. You can't have it both ways.

Basically, a person who has the ability to create his own shot, and has the potential to be an impact on defense is better than a role player. I mean you want Smart to start over IT. Yes, IT's stats are misleading because BS is a great coach, but Smart has the same coach! I mean you are nuts for saying that they shouldn't start IT. I just can't wait for the regular season to start so Rozier can just shut everyone up at this point. We should be happy he's good, not insecure he's going to steal Smart's minutes.

When in the hell did I ever say Smart should start over IT? I HOPE that he ends up winning the spot by the end of the year, but that's a totally different argument than what you're saying, which is a strawman argument. And nobody's insecure that a mid first round pick that barely touched the floor last year is going to steal Smart's minutes - you know, the guy that averaged over 27 minutes a game his first two years. 

I'll outright say that Smart is my favorite player by far, but if you've paid attention, then I've routinely criticized Smart when it's warranted. I always discuss how his three point shot selection needs to improve, along with his finishing at the basket, among other things.

However, I've always been a vocal proponent, along with several others here, that we haven't put Smart in the position to succeed. He's always been played out of position off the ball, and he's looked terrible doing so. However, look just how much better he's been this preseason due to being the primary ball-handler. He's dominated large portions of games, which seems to validate this argument that many of us have been pushing.

As for Rozier, I really like Rozier, and I hope he keeps developing. But his play has been blown WAY out of proportion on here, especially when compared with the unfair high levels of criticism that Smart constantly has thrown at him on here. Essentially, it's the anti-Smart people really pushing this whole exaggerated Rozier narrative on here, because there's ulterior motives for doing so. He's played decently so far, but it is preseason and he's largely played against the bench players and third stringers. Smart regularly plays against the starters and the bench players, and he's usually done for the night by the time the third stringers are in, which is where Rozier usually does his damage.

But I agree - let's all stop this hype until the kid actually plays significant minutes (that aren't due to an injury to one of our regulars) in a regular season game against rotation-caliber opponents before hailing him as a future star. Honestly, at this point I just hope he ends up getting traded for a frontcourt upgrade so that we can all stop hearing all about these exaggerated claims extrapolated from good play in summer league and preseason bench warmer time.

Nobody has said the guy is a future star though? And I guess I jumped to conclusions on your IT stuff, but that comment from you came out of nowhere. Do you realize that you have cautiously been down on both IT and Rozier but nothing on Smart? How does that make sense?

Second, are you really going to throw the minutes thing at my face? Like I said we'll see this year if Smart can keep the job because in all honesty, the dude should be worried Rozier is about to jump him. That's my opinion. And it doesn't say much about Rozier being that great, it speaks to the fact that you keep ignoring that Smart can't shoot.

You keep pointing to Smart's preseason performance, but Rozier's doesn't matter? Because he's playing scrubs? How does that make sense?

I'm not anti smart at all actually. I had the dudes back in his rookie year when LBRD would compare him to Tony Allen which right now seems like a pretty good comp to me. Unfortunately the guy burned me and didn't improve his second year so what do you expect me to say? I mean he was the freaking 6th pick overall. He's slightly overweight, again can't shoot. AND HE TAKES MORE SHOTS THAN ROZIER. But of course Rozier is the ballhog. Yeah makes sense.

[tankcity!]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

Please, let's not pass off opinion as if it's fact. 

Every time Rozier has gone off in the second half of games it's been because nobody else on the second unit has been capable of producing ANY kind of offense, and he's had no choice but to either shoulder the load, or watch the team lose.

Each time he's shouldered the load, and he's single handedly carried the team back in to the game.

Smart makes the occasional big play on defence here and there that can sway a game - I don't deny that, and as I said I appreciate it greatly.  Over the court of a game he might get one steal, might collect one loose ball, might get one aggressive putback off an offensive board. 

Almost every game Rozier has had a point where he's had to go on an 8-10 point scoring spree to bring the team back in the game, and he's proven that when he has to score, he can do so pretty much at will.

When he's not scoring it's because he's been shrugging off potential scoring opportunities and giving it up to others with the aim of trying to be a good teammate.  He only forces the issue on offence when he has no other choice because everybody else on the court is useless offensively, and he's had to take over.   

How many times have you seen him chuck up a mountain of shots when he's been playing with the starters?  I haven't seen it once so far n the preseason.  Because he knows there are veterans on the court who can score the ball, so he's giving it up to those guys.

If ANYBODY on this team is a black hole it's Smart.  He's taken seventeen three point shots in 5 games so far and has made THREE of them!!!

That's 3.4 attempts per game in 22 MPG - 5.5 three point attempts Per 36.  From a guy who shot 25% from three last year on (that's right!) 5.3 attempts per 36 minutes. 

How in god's name can anybody call Rozier a black hole when:

1) He's taking less shots then Smart
2) He's making more shots then Smart
3) He's averaging more assists then Smart
4) He's averaging less turnovers then Smart

I don't care if Smart can't shoot threes, every player has limitations - just stop freaking shooting them!!!  It's the darn Jared Sullinger fiasco all over again.  If you can't shoot, then don't bloody shoot.

People talk about all the extra possessions Smart creates with those two or three hustle plays.  How many extra possessions does he potentially give the defence with all the long rebounds that come from the (almost certain) three point bricks that he keeps chucking up? 

I understand the guy has to improve, and you have to take shots to improve your shooting.  Fine.  So take one or two a game.  If you're wide open - shoot it.  Don't throw up contested threes every time you touch the ball.

Granted, his offense game inside the three point line has improved dramatically - kudos for that.  His shooting pretty well from midrange, finally trying to take advantage of his size in the post, doing a better job of finishing when he gets to the basket.  He deserves recognition for that.   

But he still needs to be intelligent enough to understand what is a good shot and what is a bad shot, and for him any three point attempt that isn't WIDE OPEN is a downright hideous shot.

People here talk about Smart playing within the offence / himself. How is a a 29% career three point shooter taking more then five 3PA Per 36 Minutes playing within the offence / within himself??? 

Rozier is, by the most basic definition, playing within himself:

1)  He's only taking shots he can make - that's evidenced by the fact that his shooting percentages have been so high throughout the entire preseason.

2) He's not forcing all the offence himself and is looking for teammates - that's evidenced by the fact that his assist rate has been so solid throughout the preseason

3) He's not trying to force poor passes or overzealous dribble moves - that's evidenced by the fact that his turnover rate has been so low throughout the preseason

Rozier's play so far has been the very definition of "playing within himself and within the offence".  Along with Horford he's been the most efficient player on the team.  It's easy to see by watching the games, and if you don't have time to do that then the stats don't lie. 

Smart plays hard.  He fights constantly, works for everything, battles all the times.  That's great, and it's appreciated.  He impacts every game with his hustle. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he's slow, he has a terrible jumper, he a merely 'adequate' passer, he can't dribble, and he's got the shot-selection discipline of Josh Smith...and the last part is especially troubling considering that he's going into his third year of playing starter-like minutes, and should know better by now. 

Also you said he's dominated large parts of games - I disagree.  He's dominated small 2 or 3 minute blocks of games.  When Smart is "dominating" it's because he's just knocked away a ball leading to a fast break, and then two minutes later had a nice put-back off an offensive board. Then you'll hear nothing of him for a quarter and a half later when he jumps on the floor after a loose ball.

Rozier has dominated for entire 5-10 minute stretches, and he's done so in multiple games during this preseason.

There was a game in the playoffs last year where I would agree with your statement and say that Smart dominated large parts of that game. There were a handful of regular season games where I'd say the same.  The fast majority of the time he just gets the job done adequately, with the occasionally especially hustle play or two thrown in for good measure.  This whole "dominates large stretches of games" claim is, in my honest opinion, laughable.

Don't you know, we don't like facts on this board.

[jpotter33]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

Please, let's not pass off opinion as if it's fact. 

Every time Rozier has gone off in the second half of games it's been because nobody else on the second unit has been capable of producing ANY kind of offense, and he's had no choice but to either shoulder the load, or watch the team lose.

Each time he's shouldered the load, and he's single handedly carried the team back in to the game.

Smart makes the occasional big play on defence here and there that can sway a game - I don't deny that, and as I said I appreciate it greatly.  Over the court of a game he might get one steal, might collect one loose ball, might get one aggressive putback off an offensive board. 

Almost every game Rozier has had a point where he's had to go on an 8-10 point scoring spree to bring the team back in the game, and he's proven that when he has to score, he can do so pretty much at will.

When he's not scoring it's because he's been shrugging off potential scoring opportunities and giving it up to others with the aim of trying to be a good teammate.  He only forces the issue on offence when he has no other choice because everybody else on the court is useless offensively, and he's had to take over.   

How many times have you seen him chuck up a mountain of shots when he's been playing with the starters?  I haven't seen it once so far n the preseason.  Because he knows there are veterans on the court who can score the ball, so he's giving it up to those guys.

If ANYBODY on this team is a black hole it's Smart.  He's taken seventeen three point shots in 5 games so far and has made THREE of them!!!

That's 3.4 attempts per game in 22 MPG - 5.5 three point attempts Per 36.  From a guy who shot 25% from three last year on (that's right!) 5.3 attempts per 36 minutes. 

How in god's name can anybody call Rozier a black hole when:

1) He's taking less shots then Smart
2) He's making more shots then Smart
3) He's averaging more assists then Smart
4) He's averaging less turnovers then Smart

I don't care if Smart can't shoot threes, every player has limitations - just stop freaking shooting them!!!  It's the darn Jared Sullinger fiasco all over again.  If you can't shoot, then don't bloody shoot.

People talk about all the extra possessions Smart creates with those two or three hustle plays.  How many extra possessions does he potentially give the defence with all the long rebounds that come from the (almost certain) three point bricks that he keeps chucking up? 

I understand the guy has to improve, and you have to take shots to improve your shooting.  Fine.  So take one or two a game.  If you're wide open - shoot it.  Don't throw up contested threes every time you touch the ball.

Granted, his offense game inside the three point line has improved dramatically - kudos for that.  His shooting pretty well from midrange, finally trying to take advantage of his size in the post, doing a better job of finishing when he gets to the basket.  He deserves recognition for that.   

But he still needs to be intelligent enough to understand what is a good shot and what is a bad shot, and for him any three point attempt that isn't WIDE OPEN is a downright hideous shot.

People here talk about Smart playing within the offence / himself. How is a a 29% career three point shooter taking more then five 3PA Per 36 Minutes playing within the offence / within himself??? 

Rozier is, by the most basic definition, playing within himself:

1)  He's only taking shots he can make - that's evidenced by the fact that his shooting percentages have been so high throughout the entire preseason.

2) He's not forcing all the offence himself and is looking for teammates - that's evidenced by the fact that his assist rate has been so solid throughout the preseason

3) He's not trying to force poor passes or overzealous dribble moves - that's evidenced by the fact that his turnover rate has been so low throughout the preseason

Rozier's play so far has been the very definition of "playing within himself and within the offence".  Along with Horford he's been the most efficient player on the team.  It's easy to see by watching the games, and if you don't have time to do that then the stats don't lie. 

Smart plays hard.  He fights constantly, works for everything, battles all the times.  That's great, and it's appreciated.  He impacts every game with his hustle. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he's slow, he has a terrible jumper, he a merely 'adequate' passer, he can't dribble, and he's got the shot-selection discipline of Josh Smith...and the last part is especially troubling considering that he's going into his third year of playing starter-like minutes, and should know better by now. 

Also you said he's dominated large parts of games - I disagree.  He's dominated small 2 or 3 minute blocks of games.  When Smart is "dominating" it's because he's just knocked away a ball leading to a fast break, and then two minutes later had a nice put-back off an offensive board. Then you'll hear nothing of him for a quarter and a half later when he jumps on the floor after a loose ball.

Rozier has dominated for entire 5-10 minute stretches, and he's done so in multiple games during this preseason.

There was a game in the playoffs last year where I would agree with your statement and say that Smart dominated large parts of that game. There were a handful of regular season games where I'd say the same.  The fast majority of the time he just gets the job done adequately, with the occasionally especially hustle play or two thrown in for good measure.  This whole "dominates large stretches of games" claim is, in my honest opinion, laughable.

Rather than just sitting here writing novels back and forth to each other, how about we just wait to see how Rozier does in an actual game when it matters and he's playing full-time against actual rotation-caliber talent?

I'm just going to go down on the record and say this - there's simply no way that Rozier will be as impactful on the court as Smart. He might shoot better and score a little more efficiently, but he does not have the mindset to run the second unit properly under Stevens' philosophy of pace and space, let alone his subpar defense predicated on gambling. We're going to end up seeing this with Smart playing many, many more minutes than Rozier overall, especially crunch-time minutes, and Smart being the primary ball-handler on the second unit.

No point in discussing this matter anymore until we see Rozier actually get minutes in a game that matters against actual rotation players for the entire game.

[tankcity!]

Honestly, just annoyed with this board because they have been begging for scorers and when they finally have someone with potential, they start throwing dirt on him.

[tankcity!]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

Please, let's not pass off opinion as if it's fact. 

Every time Rozier has gone off in the second half of games it's been because nobody else on the second unit has been capable of producing ANY kind of offense, and he's had no choice but to either shoulder the load, or watch the team lose.

Each time he's shouldered the load, and he's single handedly carried the team back in to the game.

Smart makes the occasional big play on defence here and there that can sway a game - I don't deny that, and as I said I appreciate it greatly.  Over the court of a game he might get one steal, might collect one loose ball, might get one aggressive putback off an offensive board. 

Almost every game Rozier has had a point where he's had to go on an 8-10 point scoring spree to bring the team back in the game, and he's proven that when he has to score, he can do so pretty much at will.

When he's not scoring it's because he's been shrugging off potential scoring opportunities and giving it up to others with the aim of trying to be a good teammate.  He only forces the issue on offence when he has no other choice because everybody else on the court is useless offensively, and he's had to take over.   

How many times have you seen him chuck up a mountain of shots when he's been playing with the starters?  I haven't seen it once so far n the preseason.  Because he knows there are veterans on the court who can score the ball, so he's giving it up to those guys.

If ANYBODY on this team is a black hole it's Smart.  He's taken seventeen three point shots in 5 games so far and has made THREE of them!!!

That's 3.4 attempts per game in 22 MPG - 5.5 three point attempts Per 36.  From a guy who shot 25% from three last year on (that's right!) 5.3 attempts per 36 minutes. 

How in god's name can anybody call Rozier a black hole when:

1) He's taking less shots then Smart
2) He's making more shots then Smart
3) He's averaging more assists then Smart
4) He's averaging less turnovers then Smart

I don't care if Smart can't shoot threes, every player has limitations - just stop freaking shooting them!!!  It's the darn Jared Sullinger fiasco all over again.  If you can't shoot, then don't bloody shoot.

People talk about all the extra possessions Smart creates with those two or three hustle plays.  How many extra possessions does he potentially give the defence with all the long rebounds that come from the (almost certain) three point bricks that he keeps chucking up? 

I understand the guy has to improve, and you have to take shots to improve your shooting.  Fine.  So take one or two a game.  If you're wide open - shoot it.  Don't throw up contested threes every time you touch the ball.

Granted, his offense game inside the three point line has improved dramatically - kudos for that.  His shooting pretty well from midrange, finally trying to take advantage of his size in the post, doing a better job of finishing when he gets to the basket.  He deserves recognition for that.   

But he still needs to be intelligent enough to understand what is a good shot and what is a bad shot, and for him any three point attempt that isn't WIDE OPEN is a downright hideous shot.

People here talk about Smart playing within the offence / himself. How is a a 29% career three point shooter taking more then five 3PA Per 36 Minutes playing within the offence / within himself??? 

Rozier is, by the most basic definition, playing within himself:

1)  He's only taking shots he can make - that's evidenced by the fact that his shooting percentages have been so high throughout the entire preseason.

2) He's not forcing all the offence himself and is looking for teammates - that's evidenced by the fact that his assist rate has been so solid throughout the preseason

3) He's not trying to force poor passes or overzealous dribble moves - that's evidenced by the fact that his turnover rate has been so low throughout the preseason

Rozier's play so far has been the very definition of "playing within himself and within the offence".  Along with Horford he's been the most efficient player on the team.  It's easy to see by watching the games, and if you don't have time to do that then the stats don't lie. 

Smart plays hard.  He fights constantly, works for everything, battles all the times.  That's great, and it's appreciated.  He impacts every game with his hustle. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he's slow, he has a terrible jumper, he a merely 'adequate' passer, he can't dribble, and he's got the shot-selection discipline of Josh Smith...and the last part is especially troubling considering that he's going into his third year of playing starter-like minutes, and should know better by now. 

Also you said he's dominated large parts of games - I disagree.  He's dominated small 2 or 3 minute blocks of games.  When Smart is "dominating" it's because he's just knocked away a ball leading to a fast break, and then two minutes later had a nice put-back off an offensive board. Then you'll hear nothing of him for a quarter and a half later when he jumps on the floor after a loose ball.

Rozier has dominated for entire 5-10 minute stretches, and he's done so in multiple games during this preseason.

There was a game in the playoffs last year where I would agree with your statement and say that Smart dominated large parts of that game. There were a handful of regular season games where I'd say the same.  The fast majority of the time he just gets the job done adequately, with the occasionally especially hustle play or two thrown in for good measure.  This whole "dominates large stretches of games" claim is, in my honest opinion, laughable.

Rather than just sitting here writing novels back and forth to each other, how about we just wait to see how Rozier does in an actual game when it matters and he's playing full-time against actual rotation-caliber talent?

I'm just going to go down on the record and say this - there's simply no way that Rozier will be as impactful on the court as Smart. He might shoot better and score a little more efficiently, but he does not have the mindset to run the second unit properly under Stevens' philosophy of pace and space, let alone his subpar defense predicated on gambling. We're going to end up seeing this with Smart playing many, many more minutes than Rozier overall, especially crunch-time minutes, and Smart being the primary ball-handler on the second unit.

No point in discussing this matter anymore until we see Rozier actually get minutes in a game that matters against actual rotation players for the entire game.

Haha I guess scoring efficiency doesn't matter then. Why not trade for MKG as well then. I mean you clearly are saying defense is more important than offense. No idea why we didn't draft Rondae Jefferson either. I just wish I understood what you're seeing in Smart. I mean do you really think that guy has the potential to start? I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. I mean he has role player written all over him. Which isn't a bad thing, just think Rozier has more upside.

Also, he made great points, kind of lame to ignore the facts that he's bringing to the table. Just my two cents.

[MJohnnyboy]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

Please, let's not pass off opinion as if it's fact. 

Every time Rozier has gone off in the second half of games it's been because nobody else on the second unit has been capable of producing ANY kind of offense, and he's had no choice but to either shoulder the load, or watch the team lose.

Each time he's shouldered the load, and he's single handedly carried the team back in to the game.

Smart makes the occasional big play on defence here and there that can sway a game - I don't deny that, and as I said I appreciate it greatly.  Over the court of a game he might get one steal, might collect one loose ball, might get one aggressive putback off an offensive board. 

Almost every game Rozier has had a point where he's had to go on an 8-10 point scoring spree to bring the team back in the game, and he's proven that when he has to score, he can do so pretty much at will.

When he's not scoring it's because he's been shrugging off potential scoring opportunities and giving it up to others with the aim of trying to be a good teammate.  He only forces the issue on offence when he has no other choice because everybody else on the court is useless offensively, and he's had to take over.   

How many times have you seen him chuck up a mountain of shots when he's been playing with the starters?  I haven't seen it once so far n the preseason.  Because he knows there are veterans on the court who can score the ball, so he's giving it up to those guys.

If ANYBODY on this team is a black hole it's Smart.  He's taken seventeen three point shots in 5 games so far and has made THREE of them!!!

That's 3.4 attempts per game in 22 MPG - 5.5 three point attempts Per 36.  From a guy who shot 25% from three last year on (that's right!) 5.3 attempts per 36 minutes. 

How in god's name can anybody call Rozier a black hole when:

1) He's taking less shots then Smart
2) He's making more shots then Smart
3) He's averaging more assists then Smart
4) He's averaging less turnovers then Smart

I don't care if Smart can't shoot threes, every player has limitations - just stop freaking shooting them!!!  It's the darn Jared Sullinger fiasco all over again.  If you can't shoot, then don't bloody shoot.

People talk about all the extra possessions Smart creates with those two or three hustle plays.  How many extra possessions does he potentially give the defence with all the long rebounds that come from the (almost certain) three point bricks that he keeps chucking up? 

I understand the guy has to improve, and you have to take shots to improve your shooting.  Fine.  So take one or two a game.  If you're wide open - shoot it.  Don't throw up contested threes every time you touch the ball.

Granted, his offense game inside the three point line has improved dramatically - kudos for that.  His shooting pretty well from midrange, finally trying to take advantage of his size in the post, doing a better job of finishing when he gets to the basket.  He deserves recognition for that.   

But he still needs to be intelligent enough to understand what is a good shot and what is a bad shot, and for him any three point attempt that isn't WIDE OPEN is a downright hideous shot.

People here talk about Smart playing within the offence / himself. How is a a 29% career three point shooter taking more then five 3PA Per 36 Minutes playing within the offence / within himself??? 

Rozier is, by the most basic definition, playing within himself:

1)  He's only taking shots he can make - that's evidenced by the fact that his shooting percentages have been so high throughout the entire preseason.

2) He's not forcing all the offence himself and is looking for teammates - that's evidenced by the fact that his assist rate has been so solid throughout the preseason

3) He's not trying to force poor passes or overzealous dribble moves - that's evidenced by the fact that his turnover rate has been so low throughout the preseason

Rozier's play so far has been the very definition of "playing within himself and within the offence".  Along with Horford he's been the most efficient player on the team.  It's easy to see by watching the games, and if you don't have time to do that then the stats don't lie. 

Smart plays hard.  He fights constantly, works for everything, battles all the times.  That's great, and it's appreciated.  He impacts every game with his hustle. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he's slow, he has a terrible jumper, he a merely 'adequate' passer, he can't dribble, and he's got the shot-selection discipline of Josh Smith...and the last part is especially troubling considering that he's going into his third year of playing starter-like minutes, and should know better by now. 

Also you said he's dominated large parts of games - I disagree.  He's dominated small 2 or 3 minute blocks of games.  When Smart is "dominating" it's because he's just knocked away a ball leading to a fast break, and then two minutes later had a nice put-back off an offensive board. Then you'll hear nothing of him for a quarter and a half later when he jumps on the floor after a loose ball.

Rozier has dominated for entire 5-10 minute stretches, and he's done so in multiple games during this preseason.

There was a game in the playoffs last year where I would agree with your statement and say that Smart dominated large parts of that game. There were a handful of regular season games where I'd say the same.  The fast majority of the time he just gets the job done adequately, with the occasionally especially hustle play or two thrown in for good measure.  This whole "dominates large stretches of games" claim is, in my honest opinion, laughable.

Rather than just sitting here writing novels back and forth to each other, how about we just wait to see how Rozier does in an actual game when it matters and he's playing full-time against actual rotation-caliber talent?

I'm just going to go down on the record and say this - there's simply no way that Rozier will be as impactful on the court as Smart. He might shoot better and score a little more efficiently, but he does not have the mindset to run the second unit properly under Stevens' philosophy of pace and space, let alone his subpar defense predicated on gambling. We're going to end up seeing this with Smart playing many, many more minutes than Rozier overall, especially crunch-time minutes, and Smart being the primary ball-handler on the second unit.

No point in discussing this matter anymore until we see Rozier actually get minutes in a game that matters against actual rotation players for the entire game.

Haha I guess scoring efficiency doesn't matter then. Why not trade for MKG as well then. I mean you clearly are saying defense is more important than offense. No idea why we didn't draft Rondae Jefferson either. I just wish I understood what you're seeing in Smart. I mean do you really think that guy has the potential to start? I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. I mean he has role player written all over him. Which isn't a bad thing, just think Rozier has more upside.

Also, he made great points, kind of lame to ignore the facts that he's bringing to the table. Just my two cents.

What about my facts? Didn't you basically brush them off?

There's two sides of an argument. What's worse is that this has turned into a p---ing contest. Can't we like BOTH of them?

[jpotter33]

Honestly, just annoyed with this board because they have been begging for scorers and when they finally have someone with potential, they start throwing dirt on him.

"potential"




Rozier's "potential" is probably around an average starter in the league - nothing more. I am just completely baffled at this complete overreaction to summer league and preseason performances.

[tankcity!]

Honestly, just annoyed with this board because they have been begging for scorers and when they finally have someone with potential, they start throwing dirt on him.

"potential"




Rozier's "potential" is probably around an average starter in the league - nothing more. I am just completely baffled at this complete overreaction to summer league and preseason performances.

Okay, if defense is so important than why does IT start over Smart. Same with Bradley?

[jpotter33]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

Please, let's not pass off opinion as if it's fact. 

Every time Rozier has gone off in the second half of games it's been because nobody else on the second unit has been capable of producing ANY kind of offense, and he's had no choice but to either shoulder the load, or watch the team lose.

Each time he's shouldered the load, and he's single handedly carried the team back in to the game.

Smart makes the occasional big play on defence here and there that can sway a game - I don't deny that, and as I said I appreciate it greatly.  Over the court of a game he might get one steal, might collect one loose ball, might get one aggressive putback off an offensive board. 

Almost every game Rozier has had a point where he's had to go on an 8-10 point scoring spree to bring the team back in the game, and he's proven that when he has to score, he can do so pretty much at will.

When he's not scoring it's because he's been shrugging off potential scoring opportunities and giving it up to others with the aim of trying to be a good teammate.  He only forces the issue on offence when he has no other choice because everybody else on the court is useless offensively, and he's had to take over.   

How many times have you seen him chuck up a mountain of shots when he's been playing with the starters?  I haven't seen it once so far n the preseason.  Because he knows there are veterans on the court who can score the ball, so he's giving it up to those guys.

If ANYBODY on this team is a black hole it's Smart.  He's taken seventeen three point shots in 5 games so far and has made THREE of them!!!

That's 3.4 attempts per game in 22 MPG - 5.5 three point attempts Per 36.  From a guy who shot 25% from three last year on (that's right!) 5.3 attempts per 36 minutes. 

How in god's name can anybody call Rozier a black hole when:

1) He's taking less shots then Smart
2) He's making more shots then Smart
3) He's averaging more assists then Smart
4) He's averaging less turnovers then Smart

I don't care if Smart can't shoot threes, every player has limitations - just stop freaking shooting them!!!  It's the darn Jared Sullinger fiasco all over again.  If you can't shoot, then don't bloody shoot.

People talk about all the extra possessions Smart creates with those two or three hustle plays.  How many extra possessions does he potentially give the defence with all the long rebounds that come from the (almost certain) three point bricks that he keeps chucking up? 

I understand the guy has to improve, and you have to take shots to improve your shooting.  Fine.  So take one or two a game.  If you're wide open - shoot it.  Don't throw up contested threes every time you touch the ball.

Granted, his offense game inside the three point line has improved dramatically - kudos for that.  His shooting pretty well from midrange, finally trying to take advantage of his size in the post, doing a better job of finishing when he gets to the basket.  He deserves recognition for that.   

But he still needs to be intelligent enough to understand what is a good shot and what is a bad shot, and for him any three point attempt that isn't WIDE OPEN is a downright hideous shot.

People here talk about Smart playing within the offence / himself. How is a a 29% career three point shooter taking more then five 3PA Per 36 Minutes playing within the offence / within himself??? 

Rozier is, by the most basic definition, playing within himself:

1)  He's only taking shots he can make - that's evidenced by the fact that his shooting percentages have been so high throughout the entire preseason.

2) He's not forcing all the offence himself and is looking for teammates - that's evidenced by the fact that his assist rate has been so solid throughout the preseason

3) He's not trying to force poor passes or overzealous dribble moves - that's evidenced by the fact that his turnover rate has been so low throughout the preseason

Rozier's play so far has been the very definition of "playing within himself and within the offence".  Along with Horford he's been the most efficient player on the team.  It's easy to see by watching the games, and if you don't have time to do that then the stats don't lie. 

Smart plays hard.  He fights constantly, works for everything, battles all the times.  That's great, and it's appreciated.  He impacts every game with his hustle. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he's slow, he has a terrible jumper, he a merely 'adequate' passer, he can't dribble, and he's got the shot-selection discipline of Josh Smith...and the last part is especially troubling considering that he's going into his third year of playing starter-like minutes, and should know better by now. 

Also you said he's dominated large parts of games - I disagree.  He's dominated small 2 or 3 minute blocks of games.  When Smart is "dominating" it's because he's just knocked away a ball leading to a fast break, and then two minutes later had a nice put-back off an offensive board. Then you'll hear nothing of him for a quarter and a half later when he jumps on the floor after a loose ball.

Rozier has dominated for entire 5-10 minute stretches, and he's done so in multiple games during this preseason.

There was a game in the playoffs last year where I would agree with your statement and say that Smart dominated large parts of that game. There were a handful of regular season games where I'd say the same.  The fast majority of the time he just gets the job done adequately, with the occasionally especially hustle play or two thrown in for good measure.  This whole "dominates large stretches of games" claim is, in my honest opinion, laughable.

Rather than just sitting here writing novels back and forth to each other, how about we just wait to see how Rozier does in an actual game when it matters and he's playing full-time against actual rotation-caliber talent?

I'm just going to go down on the record and say this - there's simply no way that Rozier will be as impactful on the court as Smart. He might shoot better and score a little more efficiently, but he does not have the mindset to run the second unit properly under Stevens' philosophy of pace and space, let alone his subpar defense predicated on gambling. We're going to end up seeing this with Smart playing many, many more minutes than Rozier overall, especially crunch-time minutes, and Smart being the primary ball-handler on the second unit.

No point in discussing this matter anymore until we see Rozier actually get minutes in a game that matters against actual rotation players for the entire game.

Haha I guess scoring efficiency doesn't matter then. Why not trade for MKG as well then. I mean you clearly are saying defense is more important than offense. No idea why we didn't draft Rondae Jefferson either. I just wish I understood what you're seeing in Smart. I mean do you really think that guy has the potential to start? I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. I mean he has role player written all over him. Which isn't a bad thing, just think Rozier has more upside.

Also, he made great points, kind of lame to ignore the facts that he's bringing to the table. Just my two cents.

Come on, you're totally making strawmans out of my arguments. I literally said "He might shoot better and score a little more efficiently," but somehow you interpreted that as me saying "scoring efficiency doesn't matter then"? Lol

Look, I like Rozier, but y'all are majorly exaggerating his play in the preseason.

[tankcity!]

Honestly, just annoyed with this board because they have been begging for scorers and when they finally have someone with potential, they start throwing dirt on him.

"potential"




Rozier's "potential" is probably around an average starter in the league - nothing more. I am just completely baffled at this complete overreaction to summer league and preseason performances.

Okay if defense is so important why does IT start over Smart? And Smart wasn't able to perform this well in his second year during summer league...

[tankcity!]

I missed  the part that Rozier outplayed Smart. Outside scoring, Rozier is inferior to Smart in every aspect.

I would invert that message completely.

Smart has outplayed Rozier on defence, other then that Rozier has been superior in every way.

He's scoring more effectively from outside, scoring more effectively from midrange, been more effective at getting in to the paint, he's moving the ball better, he's handling the ball better, he's pushing the tempo better, and his shot selection has been infinitely better.

Rozier is making things happen at will when he's on the court.  Smart continues take (and brick) too many ill advised threes, he continues to look like he's going to dribble off his foot every time he has the ball, and he continues to look like he's three steps too slow as opposing players blow by him on defence like he's standing still.

I applaud Smart for his heart, for his passion, for his effort and for his energy.  When he makes big plays, it's become of that.  It's because he got his hands out and knocked a ball loose, or because he out-muscled a guy for a rebound, or because he has dived and outworked a guy for a loose ball.  I do appreciate those things a great deal, and it makes me smile every time I see it. 

But there is only so far work and desire can take you because you, ultimately, get held back by talent.

But when Smart is stuck one on one against a quick guard, they're blowing by him like he's stuck in quicksand. 

When he's got the ball when the clock is winding down and he has to make something happen, he's throwing up contested threes, dribbling blindly into the defence, or throwing a not very well thought out pass that leads nowhere.

When he's bringing the ball up the court and the defence applies press defence, he's looking like he's stuck in a corner and doesn't know what to do - wildly looking around for anybody to pass it too, clearly completely lacking any confidence in his ball handling.

When Rozier has the ball with the clock winding down, he's creating offence.  He's using his quickness to get into the paint, then dishing out to a team mate who then makes a second pass for a score.  Or he's making a quick dribble or two around a defender, and then pulling up for the midrange J.  Or he's faking a drive, stepping back and drilling the three.  Or he just goes straight to the basket for a layup. 

When he's being pressured by the defence he's able to either dribble through the pressure, or else he's able to keep the dribble alive until he finds an open player. 

I don't think a lot of you guys realise how much Rozier's penetration has been changing the game.  He's constantly drawing the defence in, kicking it out, picking up "hockey assists" that don't register on the score board. When he's out there the ball moves - every time he touches the ball he's either making an aggressive move, or he's moving it on to the next man. 

Smart has looked good in his own ways and he's had a big impact on the games, but not nearly as much as Rozier has.  As I said, he's been our biggest impact player in the preseason so far after Horford and Bradley (who have both been huge). 

Some of you guys may disagree, which is fine - we all have the right to our point of view.  But the way I see it Smart brings are hustle and defense to a team that is absolutely packed with players who specialise at hustle and defence - Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Al Horford, Amir Johnson.  Smart production is big for us, but we'd get by just fine without him. 

Rozier on the other hand brings offensive creativity / spontaneity - something this team is absolutely desperate for, and something nobody else on the team but Thomas is capable of providing now that Evan Turner is gone.

That second unit without Smart would still be tough and competitive, but that second unit without Rozier would be completely incapable of generating anything resembling offence.

I'm sorry, but these are just simply untrue claims in reality. One cannot simply have watched the last several games and make these kinds of statements rationally. Even the announcers on both teams have remarked that Smart has dominated large parts of the last several games on both sides of the ball. Rozier just does not affect the game in any substantial way like that.

Please, let's not pass off opinion as if it's fact. 

Every time Rozier has gone off in the second half of games it's been because nobody else on the second unit has been capable of producing ANY kind of offense, and he's had no choice but to either shoulder the load, or watch the team lose.

Each time he's shouldered the load, and he's single handedly carried the team back in to the game.

Smart makes the occasional big play on defence here and there that can sway a game - I don't deny that, and as I said I appreciate it greatly.  Over the court of a game he might get one steal, might collect one loose ball, might get one aggressive putback off an offensive board. 

Almost every game Rozier has had a point where he's had to go on an 8-10 point scoring spree to bring the team back in the game, and he's proven that when he has to score, he can do so pretty much at will.

When he's not scoring it's because he's been shrugging off potential scoring opportunities and giving it up to others with the aim of trying to be a good teammate.  He only forces the issue on offence when he has no other choice because everybody else on the court is useless offensively, and he's had to take over.   

How many times have you seen him chuck up a mountain of shots when he's been playing with the starters?  I haven't seen it once so far n the preseason.  Because he knows there are veterans on the court who can score the ball, so he's giving it up to those guys.

If ANYBODY on this team is a black hole it's Smart.  He's taken seventeen three point shots in 5 games so far and has made THREE of them!!!

That's 3.4 attempts per game in 22 MPG - 5.5 three point attempts Per 36.  From a guy who shot 25% from three last year on (that's right!) 5.3 attempts per 36 minutes. 

How in god's name can anybody call Rozier a black hole when:

1) He's taking less shots then Smart
2) He's making more shots then Smart
3) He's averaging more assists then Smart
4) He's averaging less turnovers then Smart

I don't care if Smart can't shoot threes, every player has limitations - just stop freaking shooting them!!!  It's the darn Jared Sullinger fiasco all over again.  If you can't shoot, then don't bloody shoot.

People talk about all the extra possessions Smart creates with those two or three hustle plays.  How many extra possessions does he potentially give the defence with all the long rebounds that come from the (almost certain) three point bricks that he keeps chucking up? 

I understand the guy has to improve, and you have to take shots to improve your shooting.  Fine.  So take one or two a game.  If you're wide open - shoot it.  Don't throw up contested threes every time you touch the ball.

Granted, his offense game inside the three point line has improved dramatically - kudos for that.  His shooting pretty well from midrange, finally trying to take advantage of his size in the post, doing a better job of finishing when he gets to the basket.  He deserves recognition for that.   

But he still needs to be intelligent enough to understand what is a good shot and what is a bad shot, and for him any three point attempt that isn't WIDE OPEN is a downright hideous shot.

People here talk about Smart playing within the offence / himself. How is a a 29% career three point shooter taking more then five 3PA Per 36 Minutes playing within the offence / within himself??? 

Rozier is, by the most basic definition, playing within himself:

1)  He's only taking shots he can make - that's evidenced by the fact that his shooting percentages have been so high throughout the entire preseason.

2) He's not forcing all the offence himself and is looking for teammates - that's evidenced by the fact that his assist rate has been so solid throughout the preseason

3) He's not trying to force poor passes or overzealous dribble moves - that's evidenced by the fact that his turnover rate has been so low throughout the preseason

Rozier's play so far has been the very definition of "playing within himself and within the offence".  Along with Horford he's been the most efficient player on the team.  It's easy to see by watching the games, and if you don't have time to do that then the stats don't lie. 

Smart plays hard.  He fights constantly, works for everything, battles all the times.  That's great, and it's appreciated.  He impacts every game with his hustle. 

But that doesn't change the fact that he's slow, he has a terrible jumper, he a merely 'adequate' passer, he can't dribble, and he's got the shot-selection discipline of Josh Smith...and the last part is especially troubling considering that he's going into his third year of playing starter-like minutes, and should know better by now. 

Also you said he's dominated large parts of games - I disagree.  He's dominated small 2 or 3 minute blocks of games.  When Smart is "dominating" it's because he's just knocked away a ball leading to a fast break, and then two minutes later had a nice put-back off an offensive board. Then you'll hear nothing of him for a quarter and a half later when he jumps on the floor after a loose ball.

Rozier has dominated for entire 5-10 minute stretches, and he's done so in multiple games during this preseason.

There was a game in the playoffs last year where I would agree with your statement and say that Smart dominated large parts of that game. There were a handful of regular season games where I'd say the same.  The fast majority of the time he just gets the job done adequately, with the occasionally especially hustle play or two thrown in for good measure.  This whole "dominates large stretches of games" claim is, in my honest opinion, laughable.

Rather than just sitting here writing novels back and forth to each other, how about we just wait to see how Rozier does in an actual game when it matters and he's playing full-time against actual rotation-caliber talent?

I'm just going to go down on the record and say this - there's simply no way that Rozier will be as impactful on the court as Smart. He might shoot better and score a little more efficiently, but he does not have the mindset to run the second unit properly under Stevens' philosophy of pace and space, let alone his subpar defense predicated on gambling. We're going to end up seeing this with Smart playing many, many more minutes than Rozier overall, especially crunch-time minutes, and Smart being the primary ball-handler on the second unit.

No point in discussing this matter anymore until we see Rozier actually get minutes in a game that matters against actual rotation players for the entire game.

Haha I guess scoring efficiency doesn't matter then. Why not trade for MKG as well then. I mean you clearly are saying defense is more important than offense. No idea why we didn't draft Rondae Jefferson either. I just wish I understood what you're seeing in Smart. I mean do you really think that guy has the potential to start? I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. I mean he has role player written all over him. Which isn't a bad thing, just think Rozier has more upside.

Also, he made great points, kind of lame to ignore the facts that he's bringing to the table. Just my two cents.

Come on, you're totally making strawmans out of my arguments. I literally said "He might shoot better and score a little more efficiently," but somehow you interpreted that as me saying "scoring efficiency doesn't matter then"? Lol

Look, I like Rozier, but y'all are majorly exaggerating his play in the preseason.

He's shooting over 50% dude. Has Smart ever sniffed that in any simulation? He couldn't even do it in the summer league. You're the one exaggerating by saying it's only a little more efficiency.