Hinkie Update: Hanging out in Starbucks, plans to snowboard

[CroCorvus]

OK, I'm listening this for a long time so I've decided to ask you guys what do you think and actually help me try understand this whole „Sam Hinkie Thing“ that's created over time. I will try to state what has he done in Philly over his three years and you please correct me and tell me something new about his job as Sixers GM.
Obviously he's a very smart guy, intelligent  and numbers guy who worked as a assistant GM in Houston and got a job in Philly to be the man in charge all thanks to a trend in NBA where teams (managements) moving more in new direction depending more on numbers and analytics. He admit it he is no basketball guy, mote statistics and analytics.
In three seasons his team collected, I think, only 45 wins. That's 15 wins per each season. Thats 45 wins over the period of three years and 246 games. That means his teams were very very bad. They stunk. Is it harder to be good or bad at what you doing?
Over those three years he made some trades, some were ok, some were good (I'm looking at you Sacramento). But really, did he made some excellent moves? Something no GM ever done before him? I will not even start talking about what Danny did to BKN because that would be sacrilege.
He managed to get a young and good coach in Brett Brown, who made his name with the Spurs (like so many other coaches but that doesn't make him great).
He picked MCW and trade him. He picked Nerlens Noel which, according to rumours, they are now trying to trade before he became unrestricted free agent. They won't give him millions so they will try to trade him now, which is a bad timing because you will not get back very much. He drafted Dario Šarić who could turn out to be a good player. He picked Jahlil Okafor who is also on a trade block, according to rumours. He's still a young guy, whit very good offensive game but really no defense and questionable character. He drafted Joel Embiid who could be a most dominant player of all current Sixers players but he hasn't played in two years, is injury prone and seems like enjoying more around the basketball then in it. But it would be wrong to label him a bust. He's still young and this is his sixt year playing this game so the jury's out still. And finally he picked Ben Simmons a player who has it all except shooting and killer instinct. I'm not worried about his lack of shooting but the man quit his college team and he played there for free. What will it be when he gets those checks and lucrative shoe deals? Will he be one of the greatest? I don't think so, but the time will tell. So they already traded MCW and will probably trade one or both of those two, got a solid player in Šarić, question in Embiid and Simmons. Is that better then what T'Wolves, Nuggets, Bucks or Boston has? I don't think so. Some GM's don't need TOP 5 picks to pick great players.
Philly is a sports town. They have very passionate fans. Philadelphia is a big market as they call it. There were no fear the owners will move the team because of weak attendance (they were bad at that also. Probably behind Denver who was last in 2015/2016 season). There were no fear to tank brutally and it's not the first time someone do that also.
So when we look back at what he did in Philly, he did nothing no other GM or Team done before right? He tanked on purpose because the system let him. Other teams do that often (look at the lakers last two years).
I am very amazed how Danny has managed to rebuild our team in three years by winning many more games, collecting great players (great personalities), a possibly great coach in Brad and great picks along the way. It should be that way no other way around. It's easy to tank as long as the league lets you. Its simple right, you stink, you win 15 games per year and you get TOP 3 pick three years in a row. Then you have two choices; you either risk and pick a young prospect hoping to become your next franchise player; or you trade him/or a pick for a proven player.   
I could go on now but the point is I really don't see the brilliance of Sam Hinkie except his teams tank and got the chance to pick prospects who maybe not be what they thought they will be...

[Moranis]

Lol are we really pretending that walker pierce team was a contender? I was like 17 and loved it, but that being the apex of a 15 year period was pathetic and not much different from philly. Didn't they push the future champion NBA Celtics to 7 games at one point?

I think having Pierce, at least -- you can put Walker in the category or not -- made the team fun, and gave it the sense of potential for taking a leap, that those Sixers teams never had when Iggy was their best guy.


The Sixers' apex during that stretch was probably pushing the 2012 Celts to 7 games, and they only made the second round that year because Derrick Rose blew out his knee.

They had Iverson until the 06/07 season when they traded him after he played 15 games.  It wasn't like they had that entire period without a first ballot HOFer on the team in his prime.  Now maybe you don't feel as confident building a team around AI as you would PP, but they had actually made the Finals with AI, something Boston never did with PP until Garnett and Allen came along. 

[Moranis]

OK, I'm listening this for a long time so I've decided to ask you guys what do you think and actually help me try understand this whole „Sam Hinkie Thing“ that's created over time. I will try to state what has he done in Philly over his three years and you please correct me and tell me something new about his job as Sixers GM.
Obviously he's a very smart guy, intelligent  and numbers guy who worked as a assistant GM in Houston and got a job in Philly to be the man in charge all thanks to a trend in NBA where teams (managements) moving more in new direction depending more on numbers and analytics. He admit it he is no basketball guy, mote statistics and analytics.
In three seasons his team collected, I think, only 45 wins. That's 15 wins per each season. Thats 45 wins over the period of three years and 246 games. That means his teams were very very bad. They stunk. Is it harder to be good or bad at what you doing?
Over those three years he made some trades, some were ok, some were good (I'm looking at you Sacramento). But really, did he made some excellent moves? Something no GM ever done before him? I will not even start talking about what Danny did to BKN because that would be sacrilege.
He managed to get a young and good coach in Brett Brown, who made his name with the Spurs (like so many other coaches but that doesn't make him great).
He picked MCW and trade him. He picked Nerlens Noel which, according to rumours, they are now trying to trade before he became unrestricted free agent. They won't give him millions so they will try to trade him now, which is a bad timing because you will not get back very much. He drafted Dario Šarić who could turn out to be a good player. He picked Jahlil Okafor who is also on a trade block, according to rumours. He's still a young guy, whit very good offensive game but really no defense and questionable character. He drafted Joel Embiid who could be a most dominant player of all current Sixers players but he hasn't played in two years, is injury prone and seems like enjoying more around the basketball then in it. But it would be wrong to label him a bust. He's still young and this is his sixt year playing this game so the jury's out still. And finally he picked Ben Simmons a player who has it all except shooting and killer instinct. I'm not worried about his lack of shooting but the man quit his college team and he played there for free. What will it be when he gets those checks and lucrative shoe deals? Will he be one of the greatest? I don't think so, but the time will tell. So they already traded MCW and will probably trade one or both of those two, got a solid player in Šarić, question in Embiid and Simmons. Is that better then what T'Wolves, Nuggets, Bucks or Boston has? I don't think so. Some GM's don't need TOP 5 picks to pick great players.
Philly is a sports town. They have very passionate fans. Philadelphia is a big market as they call it. There were no fear the owners will move the team because of weak attendance (they were bad at that also. Probably behind Denver who was last in 2015/2016 season). There were no fear to tank brutally and it's not the first time someone do that also.
So when we look back at what he did in Philly, he did nothing no other GM or Team done before right? He tanked on purpose because the system let him. Other teams do that often (look at the lakers last two years).
I am very amazed how Danny has managed to rebuild our team in three years by winning many more games, collecting great players (great personalities), a possibly great coach in Brad and great picks along the way. It should be that way no other way around. It's easy to tank as long as the league lets you. Its simple right, you stink, you win 15 games per year and you get TOP 3 pick three years in a row. Then you have two choices; you either risk and pick a young prospect hoping to become your next franchise player; or you trade him/or a pick for a proven player.   
I could go on now but the point is I really don't see the brilliance of Sam Hinkie except his teams tank and got the chance to pick prospects who maybe not be what they thought they will be...

Hinkie made a number of very shrewd trades in which his team clearly got the win on assets.  I don't think many GM's would have been able to pull off some of the trades he made.  I mean the trade to acquire Noel alone was highway robbery.  The MCW trade was also a brilliant trade as they sold MCW at his highest value and he hasn't come close to that value since.  The question is, did Hinkie make the correct draft picks and in that it is still too early to tell?  One thing is clear, Hinkie failed at the human element.  He just didn't really understand that aspect and turned a lot of people off so much so that the team felt they couldn't let him finish the job he started.  I suspect if Hinkie gets another job, he will do that side of things better next time.

[Moranis]

No real surprise in that Embiid will be on a minutes restriction, but I don't think I had seen that would include him not playing on back to back nights.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/09/18/sixers-will-keep-joel-embiid-on-a-minutes-restriction-unsure-if-hell-start/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&yptr=yahoo

[Vox_Populi]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

I am honestly surprised Okafor is worse than mahinmi or capella. Kind of crazy he didn't make top 100....that is eye opening

About as "eye opening" as Noel making the list while Marcus Smart didn't. 

Which of the several players drafted after Jaylen Brown do you suspect will have surprisingly great rookie seasons that make the Jaylen selection look bad?

Demetrius Jackson. I am not surprised Noel made it and smart didn't. Are you really?

Edit: To give you a more serious answer if Bender came out and averaged 14 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks a game and was running around looking like a 7 foot genetic freak we would all be livid at Ainge for picking Brown. Not sure you would be sitting there saying we had to pick Brown if that occurred.

Well yeah, clearly not, because taking brown at #3 is the equivillent of taking Anthony Bennett at #1 - both were giant risks gambling on a huge return a top tier prospect on par with marcus smart.   Okafor was a safe choice.  You knew no matter what, that dude was going to produce - and he has.  Porzingis was a greater gamble with the potential for greater results.  So far, he looks really good, but I don't think it's a lock Porzingis will have a better career than Jahlil.

It is a lock barring injury. We can shut the book on Okafor after his one year of playing with d-leaguers and having poor advanced stats. I know exactly what he is and what he will become. He will never be 7'3, he will never be soaring over people for windmill jams with a 38 inch vertical (can you believe porzingas has a 38 inch vertical!), he will never be dominating the game by blocking tons of shots, he will never racing up court like some cross between a white Usain Bolt and a Gazelle. I mean, Okafor plods along like a turtle on tylenol pm and can barely jump over a book of matches. Stop the madness larbrd, even philly fans would all strongly prefer porzingas. This isn't a real contest.

This comment got better with every word. Larbrd brings out the absolute best work among the posters here.

[LarBrd33]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

I am honestly surprised Okafor is worse than mahinmi or capella. Kind of crazy he didn't make top 100....that is eye opening

About as "eye opening" as Noel making the list while Marcus Smart didn't. 

Which of the several players drafted after Jaylen Brown do you suspect will have surprisingly great rookie seasons that make the Jaylen selection look bad?

Demetrius Jackson. I am not surprised Noel made it and smart didn't. Are you really?

Edit: To give you a more serious answer if Bender came out and averaged 14 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks a game and was running around looking like a 7 foot genetic freak we would all be livid at Ainge for picking Brown. Not sure you would be sitting there saying we had to pick Brown if that occurred.

Well yeah, clearly not, because taking brown at #3 is the equivillent of taking Anthony Bennett at #1 - both were giant risks gambling on a huge return a top tier prospect on par with marcus smart.   Okafor was a safe choice.  You knew no matter what, that dude was going to produce - and he has.  Porzingis was a greater gamble with the potential for greater results.  So far, he looks really good, but I don't think it's a lock Porzingis will have a better career than Jahlil.

It is a lock barring injury. We can shut the book on Okafor after his one year of playing with d-leaguers and having poor advanced stats. I know exactly what he is and what he will become. He will never be 7'3, he will never be soaring over people for windmill jams with a 38 inch vertical (can you believe porzingas has a 38 inch vertical!), he will never be dominating the game by blocking tons of shots, he will never racing up court like some cross between a white Usain Bolt and a Gazelle. I mean, Okafor plods along like a turtle on tylenol pm and can barely jump over a book of matches. Stop the madness larbrd, even philly fans would all strongly prefer porzingas. This isn't a real contest.

This comment got better with every word. Larbrd brings out the absolute best work among the posters here.

Lol.  It still isn't a lock that Porzingis has a better career.   We can all probably agree there's a decent chance neither one of those guys ever makes an all-star game. And since we can all agree there's a decent chance neither one of those guys ever makes an all-star game, we can also agree that there's a decent chance Okafor is the only one who does.

Obviously, we're assuming a level of development out of Porzingis that we aren't assuming out of Okafor.  I think that's a little arbitrary, though.  I'm not betting the house on the established "Okafor is a finished product, Porzingis is a blooming butterfly" narrative.  Even if it's likely, it's not a lock.  We're talking about two 20 year old kids with a lot of basketball ahead of them.  Who knows what will happen 2-5 years from now.  As Batfleck says... even if there's a 1% chance Okafor develops into a superstar while Porzingis levels out, we need to take it as an absolute certainty. 

[moiso]

Porzingis has a much better chance of being a star.  He isn't limited by athleticism.  He has plus height, plus length, plus speed and quickness for his height, plus shooting for his height, etc.

There is a limit on how good Okafor can become.  There is no such limit on Porzingis.  We've never seen a guy with his physical dimensions and tools before.

[Eddie20]

A Philly fan will argue for Okafor over Porzingis much the same way a Bucks fan initially argued for Tractor over Dirk.

[Moranis]

Okafor is 6'11" with a 7'5" wingspan, he isn't exactly a small guy.  He is a lot stronger than Porzingis and has very nice hands, great post moves, and handles the ball fairly well in traffic.  He obviously struggled defensively, but it is hard to really get a read on that with the dumpster fire that was Philly last year.  He won't be able to guard stretch 4's, but certainly should improve on the more traditional guys like Drummond, Jordan, etc.  I think he could easily be a Marc Gasol type player (or a bigger stronger Zach Randolph to stick in Memphis). 

Porzingis is definitely quicker and more athletic, but he is weaker so he may not develop much past a stretch 4 type player both offensively and defensively.  If he improves his strength and doesn't sacrifice the athleticism and speed, he can be a monster on both ends of the floor because then he could legitimately play in the post, but if he doesn't he may just be a Ryan Anderson type offensive player though with better defense.  That is a very good player no doubt but isn't star level.

So many ways they could both go you can't really say who will be better or have the better career.  After all it has been a year, and they had pretty similar stats in many respects. 

[SHAQATTACK]

He can hang out there till the cows come home .....good place for him

[PhoSita]

Lol are we really pretending that walker pierce team was a contender? I was like 17 and loved it, but that being the apex of a 15 year period was pathetic and not much different from philly. Didn't they push the future champion NBA Celtics to 7 games at one point?

I think having Pierce, at least -- you can put Walker in the category or not -- made the team fun, and gave it the sense of potential for taking a leap, that those Sixers teams never had when Iggy was their best guy.


The Sixers' apex during that stretch was probably pushing the 2012 Celts to 7 games, and they only made the second round that year because Derrick Rose blew out his knee.

They had Iverson until the 06/07 season when they traded him after he played 15 games.  It wasn't like they had that entire period without a first ballot HOFer on the team in his prime.  Now maybe you don't feel as confident building a team around AI as you would PP, but they had actually made the Finals with AI, something Boston never did with PP until Garnett and Allen came along.

I've never thought much of Iverson.

Nonetheless, does anybody disagree that the Sixers were stuck in purgatory for a very long time? It's no surprise their fans were cool with a tank plan. At least Hinkie chose a direction.

Im sure plenty of fans around here circa 2007 felt similarly.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I'm writing him in for President.

Tank the economy, constitutional rights, and military for higher draft picks over the next few years. Within 10 years we should be a global power again.

[clover]

No real surprise in that Embiid will be on a minutes restriction, but I don't think I had seen that would include him not playing on back to back nights.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/09/18/sixers-will-keep-joel-embiid-on-a-minutes-restriction-unsure-if-hell-start/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&yptr=yahoo

Good way for them both to ease him into it physically and to put off their frontcourt overload without devaluing the big-man assets they'd like to sell.

[LarBrd33]

No real surprise in that Embiid will be on a minutes restriction, but I don't think I had seen that would include him not playing on back to back nights.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/09/18/sixers-will-keep-joel-embiid-on-a-minutes-restriction-unsure-if-hell-start/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs&yptr=yahoo

Good way for them both to ease him into it physically and to put off their frontcourt overload without devaluing the big-man assets they'd like to sell.

Definitely.  The more time they take with embiid the more time they have to make a trade.  That's why I keep saying they don't really need to do anything this summer.  They have a bit more time to figure it out.

[celticsclay]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

I am honestly surprised Okafor is worse than mahinmi or capella. Kind of crazy he didn't make top 100....that is eye opening

About as "eye opening" as Noel making the list while Marcus Smart didn't. 

Which of the several players drafted after Jaylen Brown do you suspect will have surprisingly great rookie seasons that make the Jaylen selection look bad?

Demetrius Jackson. I am not surprised Noel made it and smart didn't. Are you really?

Edit: To give you a more serious answer if Bender came out and averaged 14 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks a game and was running around looking like a 7 foot genetic freak we would all be livid at Ainge for picking Brown. Not sure you would be sitting there saying we had to pick Brown if that occurred.

Well yeah, clearly not, because taking brown at #3 is the equivillent of taking Anthony Bennett at #1 - both were giant risks gambling on a huge return a top tier prospect on par with marcus smart.   Okafor was a safe choice.  You knew no matter what, that dude was going to produce - and he has.  Porzingis was a greater gamble with the potential for greater results.  So far, he looks really good, but I don't think it's a lock Porzingis will have a better career than Jahlil.

It is a lock barring injury. We can shut the book on Okafor after his one year of playing with d-leaguers and having poor advanced stats. I know exactly what he is and what he will become. He will never be 7'3, he will never be soaring over people for windmill jams with a 38 inch vertical (can you believe porzingas has a 38 inch vertical!), he will never be dominating the game by blocking tons of shots, he will never racing up court like some cross between a white Usain Bolt and a Gazelle. I mean, Okafor plods along like a turtle on tylenol pm and can barely jump over a book of matches. Stop the madness larbrd, even philly fans would all strongly prefer porzingas. This isn't a real contest.

This comment got better with every word. Larbrd brings out the absolute best work among the posters here.

Lol.  It still isn't a lock that Porzingis has a better career.   We can all probably agree there's a decent chance neither one of those guys ever makes an all-star game. And since we can all agree there's a decent chance neither one of those guys ever makes an all-star game, we can also agree that there's a decent chance Okafor is the only one who does.

Obviously, we're assuming a level of development out of Porzingis that we aren't assuming out of Okafor.  I think that's a little arbitrary, though.  I'm not betting the house on the established "Okafor is a finished product, Porzingis is a blooming butterfly" narrative.  Even if it's likely, it's not a lock.  We're talking about two 20 year old kids with a lot of basketball ahead of them.  Who knows what will happen 2-5 years from now.  As Batfleck says... even if there's a 1% chance Okafor develops into a superstar while Porzingis levels out, we need to take it as an absolute certainty. 

I would be shocked if he isn't an all star. How many players in the history of the NBA have been 7'3 and as quick as him? He can also shoot the 3 and was very impressive defensively. How do you not get excited about a fast, extremely athletic 7'3 dude that can shoot and dunk?