Hinkie Update: Hanging out in Starbucks, plans to snowboard

[LarBrd33]

He will be remembered as the guy who took Okafor over Porzingis.

I think that was his one, colossal, mistake.

I agree. If Okafor tops out as a scoring big off the bench this could be near a bowie/jordan moment.

Had he taken Porzingis at #3 over Okafor, he would have been absolutely unequivocally skewered by everyone.  Nobody really had Porzingis over Okafor.   And while Porzingis had a very encouraging season on the Knicks surrounded by actual NBA players, he's a tad overrated right now (while Okafor is pretty underrated).  Selecting Porzingis would still put them in a log jam right now.  The Okafor pick was a solid one.

Also, I get that Porzingis was better defensively and has a skill set/body type that everyone believes makes him a superior prospect.  He's widely thought to have significantly more potential than Okafor.  Also Porzingis is thought to be a modern big while Okafor is thought to be an obsolete big.   But both of those guys are kids (Porzingis is a few months older)... It's kind of weird that people act like Okafor is a complete product incapable of improving.

Fwiw... Porzingis' stats in his 18 games after the all-star break:  15.3 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.6 blocks, 41%/29%/82%

Compared to Jahlil's stats over his final month (11 games): 18.5 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.3 blocks, 57%/33%/77%

Both those kids could be much better long-term.  Very different style of plays and very different surrounding talent.  Porzingis had something like 70% of his shots come off assists.   Okafor only had about 30%.... In other words, without any NBA teammates on Philly, Okafor was forced to create almost all of his offense while consistently being double-teamed and yet he still managed to score more efficiently than Porzingis.   Bit of a Chicken/Egg thing, of course, as the anti-Okafor bunch will claim Okafor's lack of assisted points was due to him being a black hole... while the #Prokafor bunch will claim it's because the rest of his teammates were incompetent.  FWIW, Okafor's FG% jumped from something like 47% to 63% when playing with Ish Smith.

[celticsclay]

He will be remembered as the guy who took Okafor over Porzingis.

I think that was his one, colossal, mistake.

I agree. If Okafor tops out as a scoring big off the bench this could be near a bowie/jordan moment.

Had he taken Porzingis at #3 over Okafor, he would have been absolutely unequivocally skewered by everyone.  Nobody really had Porzingis over Okafor.   And while Porzingis had a very encouraging season on the Knicks surrounded by actual NBA players, he's a tad overrated right now (while Okafor is pretty underrated).  Selecting Porzingis would still put them in a log jam right now.  The Okafor pick was a solid one.

Isn't this the whole point of how Hinkie does stuff though? He doesn't care what anyone thinks of him or his methods. If he picked Porzingas he may have been laughed at on draft night, but i think people would quickly be calling him a genius about 20 games into the season (I know I would have been pretty impressed).

Also with Porzingas it is not about his stats as a rookie necessarily, it is that he is 7'3 can drill the 3, has very impressive footspeed for a man his size, can block shots and dunk. He is a complete athletic freak and I don't know when the last time there was someone with his size in the NBA that could both move and shoot like he can (he is like a healthy Arvidis Sabonis).

[LarBrd33]

He will be remembered as the guy who took Okafor over Porzingis.

I think that was his one, colossal, mistake.

I agree. If Okafor tops out as a scoring big off the bench this could be near a bowie/jordan moment.

Had he taken Porzingis at #3 over Okafor, he would have been absolutely unequivocally skewered by everyone.  Nobody really had Porzingis over Okafor.   And while Porzingis had a very encouraging season on the Knicks surrounded by actual NBA players, he's a tad overrated right now (while Okafor is pretty underrated).  Selecting Porzingis would still put them in a log jam right now.  The Okafor pick was a solid one.

Isn't this the whole point of how Hinkie does stuff though? He doesn't care what anyone thinks of him or his methods. If he picked Porzingas he may have been laughed at on draft night, but i think people would quickly be calling him a genius about 20 games into the season (I know I would have been pretty impressed).

Also with Porzingas it is not about his stats as a rookie necessarily, it is that he is 7'3 can drill the 3, has very impressive footspeed for a man his size, can block shots and dunk. He is a complete athletic freak and I don't know when the last time there was someone with his size in the NBA that could both move and shoot like he can (he is like a healthy Arvidis Sabonis).

you're assuming porzingis would have looked good on that Philly team.   

Okafor was a pretty obvious pick at 3.  They knew they were probably trading that asset eventually.  Porzingis looked like a project and the consensus was that he was outside the top 3.  Okafor was the safe pick and he produced.  I think it will work out fine for Philly in the long run.

[celticsclay]

He will be remembered as the guy who took Okafor over Porzingis.

I think that was his one, colossal, mistake.

I agree. If Okafor tops out as a scoring big off the bench this could be near a bowie/jordan moment.

Had he taken Porzingis at #3 over Okafor, he would have been absolutely unequivocally skewered by everyone.  Nobody really had Porzingis over Okafor.   And while Porzingis had a very encouraging season on the Knicks surrounded by actual NBA players, he's a tad overrated right now (while Okafor is pretty underrated).  Selecting Porzingis would still put them in a log jam right now.  The Okafor pick was a solid one.

Also, I get that Porzingis was better defensively and has a skill set/body type that everyone believes makes him a superior prospect.  He's widely thought to have significantly more potential than Okafor.  Also Porzingis is thought to be a modern big while Okafor is thought to be an obsolete big.   But both of those guys are kids (Porzingis is a few months older)... It's kind of weird that people act like Okafor is a complete product incapable of improving.

Fwiw... Porzingis' stats in his 18 games after the all-star break:  15.3 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 1.6 blocks, 41%/29%/82%

Compared to Jahlil's stats over his final month (11 games): 18.5 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.3 blocks, 57%/33%/77%

Both those kids could be much better long-term.  Very different style of plays and very different surrounding talent.  Porzingis had something like 70% of his shots come off assists.   Okafor only had about 30%.... In other words, without any NBA teammates on Philly, Okafor was forced to create almost all of his offense while consistently being double-teamed and yet he still managed to score more efficiently than Porzingis.   Bit of a Chicken/Egg thing, of course, as the anti-Okafor bunch will claim Okafor's lack of assisted points was due to him being a black hole... while the #Prokafor bunch will claim it's because the rest of his teammates were incompetent.  FWIW, Okafor's FG% jumped from something like 47% to 63% when playing with Ish Smith.

one of the weakest things you do is take out random small sample sizes of a few games to try and make a statistical argument. Noel averaged so and so when he played just at center for a month and okafor wasn't playing, okafor averaged this many points during this set of games here, noel averaged this during a 3 week stretch after the all star game his rookie year. Sadly these are things you have typed out.

Funny thing if you expand your random sample size 2 games his average drops 1.5 points and half a rebound. When averages are jumping around that much from having 1 or 2 bad games or a great game it is pretty good evidence your sample size is too small to have any meaning. Heck if you just take out his season high 17 rebound game that occurred during the stretch you mentioned his rebounding average goes down an entire rebound.

[celticsclay]

He will be remembered as the guy who took Okafor over Porzingis.

I think that was his one, colossal, mistake.

I agree. If Okafor tops out as a scoring big off the bench this could be near a bowie/jordan moment.

Had he taken Porzingis at #3 over Okafor, he would have been absolutely unequivocally skewered by everyone.  Nobody really had Porzingis over Okafor.   And while Porzingis had a very encouraging season on the Knicks surrounded by actual NBA players, he's a tad overrated right now (while Okafor is pretty underrated).  Selecting Porzingis would still put them in a log jam right now.  The Okafor pick was a solid one.

Isn't this the whole point of how Hinkie does stuff though? He doesn't care what anyone thinks of him or his methods. If he picked Porzingas he may have been laughed at on draft night, but i think people would quickly be calling him a genius about 20 games into the season (I know I would have been pretty impressed).

Also with Porzingas it is not about his stats as a rookie necessarily, it is that he is 7'3 can drill the 3, has very impressive footspeed for a man his size, can block shots and dunk. He is a complete athletic freak and I don't know when the last time there was someone with his size in the NBA that could both move and shoot like he can (he is like a healthy Arvidis Sabonis).

you're assuming porzingis would have looked good on that Philly team.   

Okafor was a pretty obvious pick at 3.  They knew they were probably trading that asset eventually.  Porzingis looked like a project and the consensus was that he was outside the top 3.  Okafor was the safe pick and he produced.  I think it will work out fine for Philly in the long run.

If you can't admit Philly's future would like brighter with porzingas right now you are not only stubborn, you are delusional. It is not even close

[LarBrd33]

He will be remembered as the guy who took Okafor over Porzingis.

I think that was his one, colossal, mistake.

I agree. If Okafor tops out as a scoring big off the bench this could be near a bowie/jordan moment.

Had he taken Porzingis at #3 over Okafor, he would have been absolutely unequivocally skewered by everyone.  Nobody really had Porzingis over Okafor.   And while Porzingis had a very encouraging season on the Knicks surrounded by actual NBA players, he's a tad overrated right now (while Okafor is pretty underrated).  Selecting Porzingis would still put them in a log jam right now.  The Okafor pick was a solid one.

Isn't this the whole point of how Hinkie does stuff though? He doesn't care what anyone thinks of him or his methods. If he picked Porzingas he may have been laughed at on draft night, but i think people would quickly be calling him a genius about 20 games into the season (I know I would have been pretty impressed).

Also with Porzingas it is not about his stats as a rookie necessarily, it is that he is 7'3 can drill the 3, has very impressive footspeed for a man his size, can block shots and dunk. He is a complete athletic freak and I don't know when the last time there was someone with his size in the NBA that could both move and shoot like he can (he is like a healthy Arvidis Sabonis).

you're assuming porzingis would have looked good on that Philly team.   

Okafor was a pretty obvious pick at 3.  They knew they were probably trading that asset eventually.  Porzingis looked like a project and the consensus was that he was outside the top 3.  Okafor was the safe pick and he produced.  I think it will work out fine for Philly in the long run.

If you can't admit Philly's future would like brighter with porzingas right now you are not only stubborn, you are delusional. It is not even close

We dont' know what Porzingis would have looked like there.  I think Porzingis is a bit overrated.  Maybe Philly would have an easier time trading him (depending on how he would have even looked with no supporting cast), but taking Okafor was still the right decision at the time.  You can cherry pick all sorts of players who surpassed expectations.  Plenty who failed.  Okafor was a safe pick to make.  It didn't make much sense for them to gamble on a big man who may or may not show enough to be traded.

[celticsclay]

He will be remembered as the guy who took Okafor over Porzingis.

I think that was his one, colossal, mistake.

I agree. If Okafor tops out as a scoring big off the bench this could be near a bowie/jordan moment.

Had he taken Porzingis at #3 over Okafor, he would have been absolutely unequivocally skewered by everyone.  Nobody really had Porzingis over Okafor.   And while Porzingis had a very encouraging season on the Knicks surrounded by actual NBA players, he's a tad overrated right now (while Okafor is pretty underrated).  Selecting Porzingis would still put them in a log jam right now.  The Okafor pick was a solid one.

Isn't this the whole point of how Hinkie does stuff though? He doesn't care what anyone thinks of him or his methods. If he picked Porzingas he may have been laughed at on draft night, but i think people would quickly be calling him a genius about 20 games into the season (I know I would have been pretty impressed).

Also with Porzingas it is not about his stats as a rookie necessarily, it is that he is 7'3 can drill the 3, has very impressive footspeed for a man his size, can block shots and dunk. He is a complete athletic freak and I don't know when the last time there was someone with his size in the NBA that could both move and shoot like he can (he is like a healthy Arvidis Sabonis).

you're assuming porzingis would have looked good on that Philly team.   

Okafor was a pretty obvious pick at 3.  They knew they were probably trading that asset eventually.  Porzingis looked like a project and the consensus was that he was outside the top 3.  Okafor was the safe pick and he produced.  I think it will work out fine for Philly in the long run.

If you can't admit Philly's future would like brighter with porzingas right now you are not only stubborn, you are delusional. It is not even close

We dont' know what Porzingis would have looked like there.  I think Porzingis is a bit overrated.  Maybe Philly would have an easier time trading him (depending on how he would have even looked with no supporting cast), but taking Okafor was still the right decision at the time.  You can cherry pick all sorts of players who surpassed expectations.  Plenty who failed.  Okafor was a safe pick to make.  It didn't make much sense for them to gamble on a big man who may or may not show enough to be traded.

I am not debating whether it was a safe pick or whatever. What the other poster said, and I agree with, is that not picking Porzingas will come back to bite hikies tenures. I agree with that statement, and some years down the line he may very well come out and say it himself. I am not even sure what you are trying to argue at this point. You are just derailing a convo and making noise.

[Moranis]

If Philly didn't trade the pick and didn't take Okafor, they would have taken Mudiay. 

[celticsclay]

If Philly didn't trade the pick and didn't take Okafor, they would have taken Mudiay.

Thank you for your contribution

PS: You stalking me?

[nickagneta]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

[LarBrd33]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

Without a doubt, people across the country think very little of Okafor right now.  And Porzingis is thought to be a hot item. 

[celticsclay]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

I am honestly surprised Okafor is worse than mahinmi or capella. Kind of crazy he didn't make top 100....that is eye opening

[LarBrd33]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

I am honestly surprised Okafor is worse than mahinmi or capella. Kind of crazy he didn't make top 100....that is eye opening

About as "eye opening" as Noel making the list while Marcus Smart didn't. 

Which of the several players drafted after Jaylen Brown do you suspect will have surprisingly great rookie seasons that make the Jaylen selection look bad?

[celticsclay]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

I am honestly surprised Okafor is worse than mahinmi or capella. Kind of crazy he didn't make top 100....that is eye opening

About as "eye opening" as Noel making the list while Marcus Smart didn't. 

Which of the several players drafted after Jaylen Brown do you suspect will have surprisingly great rookie seasons that make the Jaylen selection look bad?

Demetrius Jackson. I am not surprised Noel made it and smart didn't. Are you really?

Edit: To give you a more serious answer if Bender came out and averaged 14 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks a game and was running around looking like a 7 foot genetic freak we would all be livid at Ainge for picking Brown. Not sure you would be sitting there saying we had to pick Brown if that occurred.

[LarBrd33]

Perspective:

In SI.coms recent top 100 players Porzingas was #68. Okafor wasnt even listed. Players listed as better than Okafor were Nerlens Noel, Ian Mahinmi, Clint Capella, and Robin Lopez.

Kind of lets you know where people across the country put Okafors value.

I am honestly surprised Okafor is worse than mahinmi or capella. Kind of crazy he didn't make top 100....that is eye opening

About as "eye opening" as Noel making the list while Marcus Smart didn't. 

Which of the several players drafted after Jaylen Brown do you suspect will have surprisingly great rookie seasons that make the Jaylen selection look bad?

Demetrius Jackson. I am not surprised Noel made it and smart didn't. Are you really?

Edit: To give you a more serious answer if Bender came out and averaged 14 points, 7 rebounds and 2 blocks a game and was running around looking like a 7 foot genetic freak we would all be livid at Ainge for picking Brown. Not sure you would be sitting there saying we had to pick Brown if that occurred.

Well yeah, clearly not, because taking brown at #3 is the equivillent of taking Anthony Bennett at #1 - both were giant risks gambling on a huge return.   Okafor was a safe choice.  You knew no matter what, that dude was going to produce - and he has.  Porzingis was a greater gamble with the potential for greater results.  So far, he looks really good, but I don't think it's a lock Porzingis will have a better career than Jahlil.