Does Palming Bother You?

[PhoSita]

I think the only reason for the rule right now is so that there is something already on the books if the league decides it needs to start enforcing it. They are ok with how it is being used right now, and honestly it would impossible to call a consistent line between carries vs. almost carries given how many times per game and how quickly they occur.

I'm not sure it'd be that hard.  Anytime a guy does what IT does literally dozens of times in the highlight video I included in the original post -- lean back and entirely stop the dribble motion for a half-second or so before re-engaging in a particular direction after the defender shifted his balance -- you call it.

Monkhouse makes a good point that what it really comes down to is how fluid and confident players are when making moves.  Rookies often get called for things because they are hesitant or overly mechanical in executing dribble moves and footwork.  The quicker you do it, and the more you integrate it into your game, the harder it is for refs to call you out on it.

[Celtics18]

I'm for it.  If always felt that if your hand dips all the way to the underside of the ball, then you have to call a carry, or if you trap it against your body, or if you come out so wide from your body that you kind of lose control.  Other than that, if you just cradle it to the side while hesitating, like Isaiah is a master of, I'm cool.

Side note:

One of the things I've always loved about Rondo is that he is a very pure dribbler.  He almost always keeps the ball low with his hands on top of the ball.

Eh, Rondo palms the ball all of the time, though not in quite the same way as Isaiah.

I won't go as far as to say he never does it, but compared to other top NBA ball handlers it's infrequent with Rondo.  When he's making moves, he generally keeps a low, tight dribble.

If you did a "pure dribble" ranking of top point guards, Rondo would be at or near the top of the "purity" rankings.

[PhoSita]

I'm for it.  If always felt that if your hand dips all the way to the underside of the ball, then you have to call a carry, or if you trap it against your body, or if you come out so wide from your body that you kind of lose control.  Other than that, if you just cradle it to the side while hesitating, like Isaiah is a master of, I'm cool.

Side note:

One of the things I've always loved about Rondo is that he is a very pure dribbler.  He almost always keeps the ball low with his hands on top of the ball.

Eh, Rondo palms the ball all of the time, though not in quite the same way as Isaiah.

I won't go as far as to say he never does it, but compared to other top NBA ball handlers it's infrequent with Rondo.  When he's making moves, he generally keeps a low, tight dribble.

If you did a "pure dribble" ranking of top point guards, Rondo would be at or near the top of the "purity" rankings.

[apc]

Game is changing.
that's why we should stop playing the 'whos better this guy from the 60s or current player' game.

[kozlodoev]

I'm ok with it since it's so difficult to call consistently. Get used to it. Jaylen Brown relies heavily on carrying the ball. A lot of people do.

It really isn't. Your hands have no business below the ball's "equator" while you're dribbling. Period, the end.

[Celtics18]

I'm for it.  If always felt that if your hand dips all the way to the underside of the ball, then you have to call a carry, or if you trap it against your body, or if you come out so wide from your body that you kind of lose control.  Other than that, if you just cradle it to the side while hesitating, like Isaiah is a master of, I'm cool.

Side note:

One of the things I've always loved about Rondo is that he is a very pure dribbler.  He almost always keeps the ball low with his hands on top of the ball.

Eh, Rondo palms the ball all of the time, though not in quite the same way as Isaiah.

I won't go as far as to say he never does it, but compared to other top NBA ball handlers it's infrequent with Rondo.  When he's making moves, he generally keeps a low, tight dribble.

If you did a "pure dribble" ranking of top point guards, Rondo would be at or near the top of the "purity" rankings.

Nice photos.  He sure does have big hands.

It should go without saying, though, that a couple of still photos aren't the best evidence to prove or disprove carrying frequency. 

[gift]

I think the only reason for the rule right now is so that there is something already on the books if the league decides it needs to start enforcing it. They are ok with how it is being used right now, and honestly it would impossible to call a consistent line between carries vs. almost carries given how many times per game and how quickly they occur.

I'm not sure it'd be that hard.  Anytime a guy does what IT does literally dozens of times in the highlight video I included in the original post -- lean back and entirely stop the dribble motion for a half-second or so before re-engaging in a particular direction after the defender shifted his balance -- you call it.

Monkhouse makes a good point that what it really comes down to is how fluid and confident players are when making moves.  Rookies often get called for things because they are hesitant or overly mechanical in executing dribble moves and footwork.  The quicker you do it, and the more you integrate it into your game, the harder it is for refs to call you out on it.

It's not hard at all to call obvious and egregious violations. The problem is that when you start being more strict about the rule, the borderline calls will become emphasized. There has to be a line somewhere and it's easier right now to have a really loose rule with a wide berth for enforcement.

It would be almost impossible to actually catch a lot of carries that are close to not being carries. Or refrain from calling palming violations that look close in real time. That's what I'm saying. The rule right now is easy to enforce because they don't really enforce it. Any time they do, the player really has no complaint.

You can palm the ball a lot less than IT does and have it still technically be a violation. But would you want to make that call when maybe 10% of the dribbles in a game could be borderline? How many dribbles are there in an average game?

[fubar089]

YES!

[Monkhouse]

I think the only reason for the rule right now is so that there is something already on the books if the league decides it needs to start enforcing it. They are ok with how it is being used right now, and honestly it would impossible to call a consistent line between carries vs. almost carries given how many times per game and how quickly they occur.

I'm not sure it'd be that hard.  Anytime a guy does what IT does literally dozens of times in the highlight video I included in the original post -- lean back and entirely stop the dribble motion for a half-second or so before re-engaging in a particular direction after the defender shifted his balance -- you call it.

Monkhouse makes a good point that what it really comes down to is how fluid and confident players are when making moves.  Rookies often get called for things because they are hesitant or overly mechanical in executing dribble moves and footwork.  The quicker you do it, and the more you integrate it into your game, the harder it is for refs to call you out on it.

It's not hard at all to call obvious and egregious violations. The problem is that when you start being more strict about the rule, the borderline calls will become emphasized. There has to be a line somewhere and it's easier right now to have a really loose rule with a wide berth for enforcement.

It would be almost impossible to actually catch a lot of carries that are close to not being carries. Or refrain from calling palming violations that look close in real time. That's what I'm saying. The rule right now is easy to enforce because they don't really enforce it. Any time they do, the player really has no complaint.

You can palm the ball a lot less than IT does and have it still technically be a violation. But would you want to make that call when maybe 10% of the dribbles in a game could be borderline? How many dribbles are there in an average game?

Agreed. But then again, its better they don't call tick tacky fouls unless its pretty obvious. Players like IT, Kyrie, Steph, and other great ball handlers semi palm the ball for hesitation moves, and I see nothing wrong with that.

[fubar089]

I'm ok with it since it's so difficult to call consistently. Get used to it. Jaylen Brown relies heavily on carrying the ball. A lot of people do.

It really isn't. Your hands have no business below the ball's "equator" while you're dribbling. Period, the end.

agreed.

[gift]

I think the only reason for the rule right now is so that there is something already on the books if the league decides it needs to start enforcing it. They are ok with how it is being used right now, and honestly it would impossible to call a consistent line between carries vs. almost carries given how many times per game and how quickly they occur.

I'm not sure it'd be that hard.  Anytime a guy does what IT does literally dozens of times in the highlight video I included in the original post -- lean back and entirely stop the dribble motion for a half-second or so before re-engaging in a particular direction after the defender shifted his balance -- you call it.

Monkhouse makes a good point that what it really comes down to is how fluid and confident players are when making moves.  Rookies often get called for things because they are hesitant or overly mechanical in executing dribble moves and footwork.  The quicker you do it, and the more you integrate it into your game, the harder it is for refs to call you out on it.

It's not hard at all to call obvious and egregious violations. The problem is that when you start being more strict about the rule, the borderline calls will become emphasized. There has to be a line somewhere and it's easier right now to have a really loose rule with a wide berth for enforcement.

It would be almost impossible to actually catch a lot of carries that are close to not being carries. Or refrain from calling palming violations that look close in real time. That's what I'm saying. The rule right now is easy to enforce because they don't really enforce it. Any time they do, the player really has no complaint.

You can palm the ball a lot less than IT does and have it still technically be a violation. But would you want to make that call when maybe 10% of the dribbles in a game could be borderline? How many dribbles are there in an average game?

Agreed. But then again, its better they don't call tick tacky fouls unless its pretty obvious. Players like IT, Kyrie, Steph, and other great ball handlers semi palm the ball for hesitation moves, and I see nothing wrong with that.

I agree with that too. Small contact around the perimeter should be given a wider berth. The inconsistency with those calls has to do with how close they call it. If they dial back a bit, we'd see more consistency (though more contact and some may just not prefer that style).

[86MaxwellSmart]

I hate when players receive a pass...then take like 3 steps before dribbling---it's NEVER called...Joe Johnson does it all the time.

[Tr1boy]

Yes. And so does travelling

[86MaxwellSmart]

Or, the "Creating Separation" drives that LeBron, Kyrie and Carmelo get away with ALL the time---these are Push-Offs...using the non dribbling hand/arm, to push the defender away....drives me crazy---cause our players don't do it.

[Diggles]

IT being left handed helps too.    Trust me it does...