one stupid move gutting this team for westbrook

[Dwnflfan]

I'd far rather go after an underrated player than waste assets on an overrated player.  I think there's a distinct chance Westbrook gets exposed this season.  I'd rather not that happen at our expense.

Like he got exposed all those times Durant was injured huh?

I'm also against using all picks and assets on him but to snub how incredibly good and full of potential the guy is crazy to me.

Cousins.  That's the guy i wouldn't mind sellingthe farm for.

According to the link below over the past eight season Westbrook averaged 28.0 pts 7.1 Reb 8.4 Ast per game when Durant was out...totally exposed.   

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4r8b7g/russell_westbrooks_stats_with_and_without_kevin/

[LarBrd33]

I'd far rather go after an underrated player than waste assets on an overrated player.  I think there's a distinct chance Westbrook gets exposed this season.  I'd rather not that happen at our expense.

Like he got exposed all those times Durant was injured huh?

Yes.  Exactly.  Like him leading the Thunder to the lottery with Durant injured and shooting 42% in the process (a ghastly 29% from three) while leading the league in turnovers.   

Distinct chance he leads the Thunder to the lotto again this year without Durant carrying him.   Better it happen in Oklahoma than have it happen here.  I'm not sure how good Westbrook will look with a normal usage rate in an offense that puts a priority on ball movement and shooting.  I'd rather not take that chance.  I'm fine with signing him as a free agent next Summer, but I wouldn't support paying a fool's ransom for a top 15-20 player being mislabeled as a superstar.

[hpantazo]

I'd far rather go after an underrated player than waste assets on an overrated player.  I think there's a distinct chance Westbrook gets exposed this season.  I'd rather not that happen at our expense.

Like he got exposed all those times Durant was injured huh?

I'm also against using all picks and assets on him but to snub how incredibly good and full of potential the guy is crazy to me.

Cousins.  That's the guy i wouldn't mind sellingthe farm for.

According to the link below over the past eight season Westbrook averaged 28.0 pts 7.1 Reb 8.4 Ast per game when Durant was out...totally exposed.   

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4r8b7g/russell_westbrooks_stats_with_and_without_kevin/

How was his shooting percentage, turnover rate, and team win-loss record during that time?

[SHAQATTACK]

I see almost zero chance Danny dumps his best assets to get him.   Makes no sense .

I can see LA doing it ....to appease their impatient fans and to bump up the TV ratings for the money makers out there .   Where big names are important to sell TV minutes and seats.

[LarBrd33]

I'd far rather go after an underrated player than waste assets on an overrated player.  I think there's a distinct chance Westbrook gets exposed this season.  I'd rather not that happen at our expense.

Like he got exposed all those times Durant was injured huh?

I'm also against using all picks and assets on him but to snub how incredibly good and full of potential the guy is crazy to me.

Cousins.  That's the guy i wouldn't mind sellingthe farm for.

According to the link below over the past eight season Westbrook averaged 28.0 pts 7.1 Reb 8.4 Ast per game when Durant was out...totally exposed.   

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4r8b7g/russell_westbrooks_stats_with_and_without_kevin/

That's the fun thing about usage rate.  When you dominate the ball more than any player in the league and take 20+ shots per night - bulk stats are inevitable.   But the team was a lottery squad with him at the helm and his efficiency took a dive.  Meanwhile, they played at their typical 57 win pace in 2013-14 with Westbrook injured.   

It reminds me when everyone lost their minds over "playoff Rondo".  Funny thing about playing a guy 43.7 minutes per game... his stats will increase.

[dannyboy35]

Stevens would have to change for Westbrook to succeed. I'm not sure Stevens can coach another style. He may be a lot like Jim o'brien in that way. I just don't see Stevens giving up the power he has.

[mmmmm]

Wow. To me Westbrook is a top 4 or 5. No lower.

Yeah, it's hard to make the argument that he's any worse than 5th or 6th.

Well, I don't think anyone is arguing about how good of a basketball talent he is.

The question is whether it makes any sense at all for the Celtics to trade anything but rental cost assets for him.

[LarBrd33]

I'd far rather go after an underrated player than waste assets on an overrated player.  I think there's a distinct chance Westbrook gets exposed this season.  I'd rather not that happen at our expense.

Like he got exposed all those times Durant was injured huh?

I'm also against using all picks and assets on him but to snub how incredibly good and full of potential the guy is crazy to me.

Cousins.  That's the guy i wouldn't mind sellingthe farm for.

According to the link below over the past eight season Westbrook averaged 28.0 pts 7.1 Reb 8.4 Ast per game when Durant was out...totally exposed.   

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4r8b7g/russell_westbrooks_stats_with_and_without_kevin/

How was his shooting percentage, turnover rate, and team win-loss record during that time?

Down, up, down.

I'm not totally against getting Westbrook... I just don't know if he can play in a pace-and-space offense.  There's a reason Durant left.  Playing with Westbrook was frustrating.   Unless his efficiency miraculously goes up with less touches and no Kevin Durant - he'll be frustrating to coach here as well.

[hpantazo]

I see almost zero chance Danny dumps his best assets to get him.   Makes no sense .

I can see LA doing it ....to appease their impatient fans and to bump up the TV ratings for the money makers out there .   Where big names are important to sell TV minutes and seats.

I agree, but I can see the Celtics pretending to want to trade their assets for him, to raise the stakes and lower the price for Cousins or Griffin.

[Moranis]

I'd far rather go after an underrated player than waste assets on an overrated player.  I think there's a distinct chance Westbrook gets exposed this season.  I'd rather not that happen at our expense.

Like he got exposed all those times Durant was injured huh?

Yes.  Exactly.  Like him leading the Thunder to the lottery with Durant injured and shooting 42% in the process (a ghastly 29% from three) while leading the league in turnovers.   

Distinct chance he leads the Thunder to the lotto again this year without Durant carrying him.   Better it happen in Oklahoma than have it happen here.  I'm not sure how good Westbrook will look with a normal usage rate in an offense that puts a priority on ball movement and shooting.  I'd rather not take that chance.  I'm fine with signing him as a free agent next Summer, but I wouldn't support paying a fool's ransom for a top 15-20 player being mislabeled as a superstar.

That year the Thunder played 14 games when neither Westbrook or Durant played.  They were 4-10 in those games.  They were 23-18 in games in which Westbrook played but Durant didn't and 18-9 in games when both Durant and Westbrook played.  So it is a bit disingenuous to not account for the 14 games when neither Westbrook or Durant played. 

Westbrook didn't actually lead the league in turnovers.  He finished 3rd, though his turnover percentage was actually lower that season than the year on other side of it (though I know you meant TPG which he did lead the league, of course 2nd was Cousins, 3rd was Harden, 4th was James - I think that company is fine).  Turnovers tend to happen when your usage rate is so high.  He was 2nd in PER, 3rd in VORP, and led the league in BPM.  He led the league in PPG, was 2nd in SPG, and was 4th in APG and finished 4th in MVP voting despite only playing in 67 games (he was 4th in MVP voting this year as well).  His eFG% was just under 54% which is quite respectable. 

This notion that a player that has finished consecutive seasons in the top 5 for MVP voting is overrated is just silly nonsense.

[mmmmm]

I see almost zero chance Danny dumps his best assets to get him.   Makes no sense .

I can see LA doing it ....to appease their impatient fans and to bump up the TV ratings for the money makers out there .   Where big names are important to sell TV minutes and seats.

I can't say for certain what the Lakers might do, but it would make most sense for them to delay trading for (or simply signing) him.   They actually still have a strong incentive to tank one more season because the pick they traded to Philly is still top-3 protected.

If they traded for Westbrook now, it's hard to see how they could tank their way all the way back to a top-3 pick without massive amounts of fake injuries in order to sideline players.

For their purposes, they are probably best off just going after him in free agency.   

At the earliest, if they really want to get him on board first in order to secure Bird Rights, maybe they promise Presti that they'd give him a sweet deal, but to wait until the February trade deadline.  They can then make sure they are something like 0-48 or whatever before they add Westbrook and then, despite continue to lose horribly, spend the last weeks of the season convincing him to stay.

[jpotter33]

I see almost zero chance Danny dumps his best assets to get him.   Makes no sense .

I can see LA doing it ....to appease their impatient fans and to bump up the TV ratings for the money makers out there .   Where big names are important to sell TV minutes and seats.

I can't say for certain what the Lakers might do, but it would make most sense for them to delay trading for (or simply signing) him.   They actually still have a strong incentive to tank one more season because the pick they traded to Philly is still top-3 protected.

If they traded for Westbrook now, it's hard to see how they could tank their way all the way back to a top-3 pick without massive amounts of fake injuries in order to sideline players.

For their purposes, they are probably best off just going after him in free agency.   

At the earliest, if they really want to get him on board first in order to secure Bird Rights, maybe they promise Presti that they'd give him a sweet deal, but to wait until the February trade deadline.  They can then make sure they are something like 0-48 or whatever before they add Westbrook and then, despite continue to lose horribly, spend the last weeks of the season convincing him to stay.

Catch-22. Westbrook isn't going to a bottom-3 team in free agency next year, especially after they wasted their most valuable asset in attracting him - major cap space next summer - this year with big contracts for mediocre players.

I think their only chance in getting him long-term is overpaying for him now and attaining his Bird Rights. He's not going to a losing team in his prime, no matter if he is from LA. The same was said about Derozan this summer, and that didn't work out either.

[freshinthehouse]

if Westbrook signs an extension, you should definitely trade for him! If he comes here and stays here, IT4 goes in my honest opinion as they are both ball dominant PG. But I view Westbrook as a top 15, heck even top 10 player in this league. That's someone you want/need on this team.

Exactly.  I love me some IT4, but he isn't in the same realm as someone like Westbrook.  Westbrook would have a good shot at winning the MVP if he was on the Celtics this coming season.

I'd offer something like IT4, Amir, and the C's 2018 pick and that LAC 1st rounder we got from Milwaukee.  Hell, I'd even make that offer without an extension.  I think one season with Brad and these players would sell him on resigning.

[arctic 3.0]

Russell Westbrook is a word that rhymes with russhole
I don't want the best player on my favorite teams to be a russhole
That being said:
If Danny trades for him I'm root for him.
He may be a russhole
But he'd be our russhole.

[Ilikesports17]

I'd far rather go after an underrated player than waste assets on an overrated player.  I think there's a distinct chance Westbrook gets exposed this season.  I'd rather not that happen at our expense.

Like he got exposed all those times Durant was injured huh?

Yes.  Exactly.  Like him leading the Thunder to the lottery with Durant injured and shooting 42% in the process (a ghastly 29% from three) while leading the league in turnovers.   

Distinct chance he leads the Thunder to the lotto again this year without Durant carrying him.   Better it happen in Oklahoma than have it happen here.  I'm not sure how good Westbrook will look with a normal usage rate in an offense that puts a priority on ball movement and shooting.  I'd rather not take that chance.  I'm fine with signing him as a free agent next Summer, but I wouldn't support paying a fool's ransom for a top 15-20 player being mislabeled as a superstar.

That year the Thunder played 14 games when neither Westbrook or Durant played.  They were 4-10 in those games.  They were 23-18 in games in which Westbrook played but Durant didn't and 18-9 in games when both Durant and Westbrook played.  So it is a bit disingenuous to not account for the 14 games when neither Westbrook or Durant played. 

Westbrook didn't actually lead the league in turnovers.  He finished 3rd, though his turnover percentage was actually lower that season than the year on other side of it (though I know you meant TPG which he did lead the league, of course 2nd was Cousins, 3rd was Harden, 4th was James - I think that company is fine).  Turnovers tend to happen when your usage rate is so high.  He was 2nd in PER, 3rd in VORP, and led the league in BPM.  He led the league in PPG, was 2nd in SPG, and was 4th in APG and finished 4th in MVP voting despite only playing in 67 games (he was 4th in MVP voting this year as well).  His eFG% was just under 54% which is quite respectable. 

This notion that a player that has finished consecutive seasons in the top 5 for MVP voting is overrated is just silly nonsense.

Overrated is a strange word. What is the consensus rating on Westbrook?

top 5 player? top 10 player? top 15?