Poll

Who would you rather have?

Smart
13 (36.1%)
Harden
23 (63.9%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Author Topic: Smart or Harden?  (Read 2129 times)

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Smart or Harden?
« on: July 09, 2016, 10:59:40 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Laughing my rear off posting this poll.  But can we stop with the foolishness of how valuable smart is and picking defense over offense?  This is be logical conclusion to those statements. 

Quite laughable of course but I fully expect this poll to be about 50-50 here.  And only here because half the league forgets that smart exists.

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2016, 11:04:07 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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If their powers could combine, it would be the most awesome force the league has ever seen!


Smarden

Talk about a two way player
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2016, 11:04:58 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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is this question for real?

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2016, 11:05:35 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Laughing my rear off posting this poll.  But can we stop with the foolishness of how valuable smart is and picking defense over offense?  This is be logical conclusion to those statements. 

Quite laughable of course but I fully expect this poll to be about 50-50 here.  And only here because half the league forgets that smart exists.

LOL TP funny stuff!

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2016, 11:09:19 PM »

Offline Denis998

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James Harding will ruin this team

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2016, 11:12:07 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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I would pick Harden if he is committed on playing defense. Harden is my first choice as a player to build around. But I would pick Smart as a championship piece. I believe that we are just another IT away from contending. And now rim protection has improved with the addition of Horford. Adding Harden (without commitment to d) and removing Smart will just be an offset.

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2016, 11:17:48 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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These are our only two choices, lol? ;D


Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2016, 11:32:38 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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I would pick Harden if he is committed on playing defense. Harden is my first choice as a player to build around. But I would pick Smart as a championship piece. I believe that we are just another IT away from contending. And now rim protection has improved with the addition of Horford. Adding Harden (without commitment to d) and removing Smart will just be an offset.
So this is what I get:
one more IT= add a player that can create his own offense(and hopefully be taller than 5'9'')
Smart= just as valuable as Harden would be for us

Have you ever considered trading a second round pick  for Tony Allen.....he's basically/was Smart but without the potential for a really good shot.



Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 11:35:31 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Recovering Joe Skeptic, but inching towards a relapse.

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2016, 11:54:30 PM »

Offline max215

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Smart! Just because I want this to be split as close to 50/50 as possible :)
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Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2016, 12:17:22 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I would pick Harden if he is committed on playing defense. Harden is my first choice as a player to build around. But I would pick Smart as a championship piece. I believe that we are just another IT away from contending. And now rim protection has improved with the addition of Horford. Adding Harden (without commitment to d) and removing Smart will just be an offset.
So this is what I get:
one more IT= add a player that can create his own offense(and hopefully be taller than 5'9'')
Smart= just as valuable as Harden would be for us

Have you ever considered trading a second round pick  for Tony Allen.....he's basically/was Smart but without the potential for a really good shot.

See Memphis. Have they won a ship? No, but neither is Harden. But they were 50+ win team every year with TA as a starter. And he is one of the major pieces off the bench during the Big 3 era.

There is a reason why Spurs retired Bruce Bowen's number. And Pistons won with Tayshaun Prince as a starter.

Are they better than Harden? No
Are they a better fit on their team? Yes
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 12:26:21 AM by mr. dee »

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2016, 12:25:03 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Laughing my rear off posting this poll.  But can we stop with the foolishness of how valuable smart is and picking defense over offense?  This is be logical conclusion to those statements. 

Quite laughable of course but I fully expect this poll to be about 50-50 here.  And only here because half the league forgets that smart exists.

Do you know what is the funniest part?

The people on this board are so utterly ridiculous sometimes that when I saw this title, I initially actually thought it was going to be serious! 

I was about to go full flame up in here haha

;D

Anyhow, if there is ANYBODY on this forum who would actually take (or even CONTEMPLATE taking) Marcus Smart over James Harden...then I am very sorry to tell you that you'd best be locked away in a window-less room with heavily padded walls in a special jacket.


Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2016, 12:44:20 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I would pick Harden if he is committed on playing defense. Harden is my first choice as a player to build around. But I would pick Smart as a championship piece. I believe that we are just another IT away from contending. And now rim protection has improved with the addition of Horford. Adding Harden (without commitment to d) and removing Smart will just be an offset.
So this is what I get:
one more IT= add a player that can create his own offense(and hopefully be taller than 5'9'')
Smart= just as valuable as Harden would be for us

Have you ever considered trading a second round pick  for Tony Allen.....he's basically/was Smart but without the potential for a really good shot.

See Memphis. Have they won a ship? No, but neither is Harden. But they were 50+ win team every year with TA as a starter. And he is one of the major pieces off the bench during the Big 3 era.

There is a reason why Spurs retired Bruce Bowen's number. And Pistons won with Tayshaun Prince as a starter.

Are they better than Harden? No
Are they a better fit on their team? Yes

The reason why the Grizzlies were a 50 win team?  Because they had Conley, Randolph and Gasol. Did Tony Allen contribute to that?  Of course, but if you think they'd have had the same success without Conley, Randolph or Gasol you are dreaming.

The reason why the Spurs won so many titles?  A combination of Robinson, Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker and Leonard - as well as Popovich.   Did Bruce Bowen contribute to that?  Of course, but if you think they'd have had the same success without Duncan, Parker or (later) Leonard, you are dreaming.

The reason Boston were dominant in the big 3 era?  Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce.   Did Tony Allen contribute to that?  Of course, but if you think they'd have had the same success without Rondo, Pierce, Ray or Kevin you are dreaming.

The reason the Pistons won a title? Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace.  Did Prince contribute to that? Of course, but if you thing that team would have one the title without Billups, Hamilton or Wallace you are dreaming.

The same is true of Derek Fisher on the Lakers - he was a huge piece for that team in a number of their title runs, but without Shaq/Kobe/Gasol there wouldn't have BEEN any title runs.

When Harden was in OKC, there were a championship contender - but that team also had Westbrook, and Durant, and Ibaka.

When Harden went to Houston he's game leaped to a whole other level, and there is no question he made that team a lot more competitive the moment he got there.  He single handedly won games for that Rockets team.  When Dwight joined their record skyrocketed, and the were good enough to be considered a contender for a good couple of years there, despite the fact that Howard was being criminally underutilised.

Every great team NEEDS it's hard nosed role players.  They all need a guy like Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart.  But you know what?  There are a LOT of guys like that in the NBA. 

Every great team also needs offensive stars - guys like Isaiah Thomas, Ray Allen, Steph Curry, James Harden, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant.  Without players like that who can take over games offensively, you'll never sniff an NBA championship...no matter how many Marcus Smart's you have.   Yet those offensive superstars are a LOT rarer and a LOT harder to get then the hard nosed role players - who are everywhere.

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2016, 01:16:37 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I would pick Harden if he is committed on playing defense. Harden is my first choice as a player to build around. But I would pick Smart as a championship piece. I believe that we are just another IT away from contending. And now rim protection has improved with the addition of Horford. Adding Harden (without commitment to d) and removing Smart will just be an offset.
So this is what I get:
one more IT= add a player that can create his own offense(and hopefully be taller than 5'9'')
Smart= just as valuable as Harden would be for us

Have you ever considered trading a second round pick  for Tony Allen.....he's basically/was Smart but without the potential for a really good shot.

See Memphis. Have they won a ship? No, but neither is Harden. But they were 50+ win team every year with TA as a starter. And he is one of the major pieces off the bench during the Big 3 era.

There is a reason why Spurs retired Bruce Bowen's number. And Pistons won with Tayshaun Prince as a starter.

Are they better than Harden? No
Are they a better fit on their team? Yes

The reason why the Grizzlies were a 50 win team?  Because they had Conley, Randolph and Gasol. Did Tony Allen contribute to that?  Of course, but if you think they'd have had the same success without Conley, Randolph or Gasol you are dreaming.


I never said that Allen single-handedly carried the Memphis team. I don't know where you got that. I said that having a offensive inept guard with elite defensive skills doesn't really drag the whole team down.


The reason why the Spurs won so many titles?  A combination of Robinson, Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker and Leonard - as well as Popovich.   Did Bruce Bowen contribute to that?  Of course, but if you think they'd have had the same success without Duncan, Parker or (later) Leonard, you are dreaming.


How many titles spurs have won pre-Kawhi and post Bruce Bowen?

The reason Boston were dominant in the big 3 era?  Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce.   Did Tony Allen contribute to that?  Of course, but if you think they'd have had the same success without Rondo, Pierce, Ray or Kevin you are dreaming.


Again, I'm not implying that TA single handedly carried the team. But that makes Lebron's life easier and Pierce's harder. As evidence, Lebron Heat beat the C's twice.

The reason the Pistons won a title? Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace.  Did Prince contribute to that? Of course, but if you thing that team would have one the title without Billups, Hamilton or Wallace you are dreaming.


I'm just repeating myself over and over.

The same is true of Derek Fisher on the Lakers - he was a huge piece for that team in a number of their title runs, but without Shaq/Kobe/Gasol there wouldn't have BEEN any title runs.


See my replies earlier


When Harden was in OKC, there were a championship contender - but that team also had Westbrook, and Durant, and Ibaka.


You just further proven my point. OKC were one win away from their second finals trip and they were still a 50+ win team without Harden.


When Harden went to Houston he's game leaped to a whole other level, and there is no question he made that team a lot more competitive the moment he got there.  He single handedly won games for that Rockets team.  When Dwight joined their record skyrocketed, and the were good enough to be considered a contender for a good couple of years there, despite the fact that Howard was being criminally underutilised.


I'm not denying that. But like I said, it's a matter of fit.


Every great team NEEDS it's hard nosed role players.  They all need a guy like Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart.  But you know what?  There are a LOT of guys like that in the NBA. 


Not many guys make it in 1st Defensive team.

Every great team also needs offensive stars - guys like Isaiah Thomas, Ray Allen, Steph Curry, James Harden, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant.  Without players like that who can take over games offensively, you'll never sniff an NBA championship...no matter how many Marcus Smart's you have.   Yet those offensive superstars are a LOT rarer and a LOT harder to get then the hard nosed role players - who are everywhere.

And that's why I said we need another IT.

A trade for a big time player doesn't always pan out. It's a hit or miss, just like the draft.


I'll list up examples of trade flops:

Barkley for Horry - Looks good on paper but couldn't get Hakeem on hump to win his 3rd ring. He have two with Horry

Howard for Bynum - One of biggest hyped up flops in NBA history.

Jeff Green for Perk - We know how that ended up and I liked Jeff during his stint here.

Kenny Anderson for Chauncey - One of Pitino's biggest blunder in Celtics front office. Kenny was a very solid player and Chauncey was an unproven rookie. He was also solid in his stay here and helped in a deep playoff run. But in the end, the C's lost and Billups later became a finals MVP.

Rodney Rogers for Joe Johnson - Another blunder by celtics management. He have the potential to be a 6th man during the Pierce-Walker era. A season later, Rogers bolted out to the Nets and Joe became an All-Star playing for other teams.

Pierce/KG for BKN picks - One of the biggest trade heist in NBA history. Not only the Nets failed to win a championship. But they also long term future. They have no draft picks until 2019.


I never said I don't want Harden. What I'm saying is I don't want Harden if it will cost us the chemistry and continuity of this team. Harden could be our "2nd IT" if he comes cheap, but it won't be, sadly.

Re: Smart or Harden?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2016, 01:42:00 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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Whoever voted for Marcus...bruh. Cmon now.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about