Celtics (0-1) vs Suns (1-0) Vegas SL Game 2 7/10/16

[tankcity!]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

You guys are all over the place with your opinions.

[PhoSita]

I don't agree that you can't learn anything from summer league.

Some guys play in summer league and it is immediately apparent they are either too old and experienced or just plain talented to get anything out of the proceedings.  See: Jimmer Fredette, whose fatal flaws won't get exposed in a Summer League environment, or Devin Booker, who is just too dang good for Summer League.


What we can say is that Jaylen Brown has a long way to go.  He's not going to tear up the league as a rookie.  He won't be a contender for ROY.  He probably won't have a particularly large role for the Celtics this year.  I'm guessing he'll be spending a fair amount of time playing for the Red Claws.  The things he can clearly do right now, namely use his physical gifts to defend one on one and force contact inside, are not going to be particularly useful to the Celtics.

Agree for the most part. I think Jimmer may have developed enough to be a back-up PG on a bad team in the mold of a poor man's Jeremy Lin, but who knows.

Disagree with the bolded, though. How often does a #3 pick spend time in the D League? Seems unprecedented. I would think you want him around the big boys as much as possible.

We need him on the active roster. We simply dont have enough wing depth to keep him off it. Marcus Smart and Jonas Jerebko are the backup SFs right now.

I don't trust Brown to do anything except defend in isolation at an NBA level.  He won't be much use on the active roster.  I expect that he, Hunter, Young, and Jerebko will all get looks at the backup 3 spot and ultimately Hunter or Young will win out, with Jerebko seeing most of his time at the 4 and 5.

Brown needs to work on his ability to create for himself and others, as well as off-ball shooting and defending in team concepts.  He can do that in the D-League.  I'm afraid if he does it in Boston, he'll end up jacking a lot of three pointers a la Smart, or embarass himself and kill his confidence trying to force contact dribbling wildly into multiple defenders and turning the ball over.

[tarheelsxxiii]

I think they need to run a few plays with Brown on the move. In Vegas they have been playing him as a spot up guy or a one on one guy on the wing. I would like to see more movement to get easier baskets although to be far he hasnt been finishing at the rim well.

Agreed.

He pretty much has to learn to play the game as a role player instead of as a star. He's finding difficulty scoring because he's isolating all the time. He needs to learns to cut and fill lanes instead of demanding the ball and trying to rush in. The finishing I'm not all too worried about, it seems like he was missing because he was anticipating contact that didn't always come half the time.

Secondeded. Both he and Smart could benefit from watching Bradley -- may not having the highest of BBIQs, but he cuts well off the ball, especially backdoor baseline.

[PhoSita]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

[tarheelsxxiii]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

TP

[Ilikesports17]

I don't agree that you can't learn anything from summer league.

Some guys play in summer league and it is immediately apparent they are either too old and experienced or just plain talented to get anything out of the proceedings.  See: Jimmer Fredette, whose fatal flaws won't get exposed in a Summer League environment, or Devin Booker, who is just too dang good for Summer League.


What we can say is that Jaylen Brown has a long way to go.  He's not going to tear up the league as a rookie.  He won't be a contender for ROY.  He probably won't have a particularly large role for the Celtics this year.  I'm guessing he'll be spending a fair amount of time playing for the Red Claws.  The things he can clearly do right now, namely use his physical gifts to defend one on one and force contact inside, are not going to be particularly useful to the Celtics.

Agree for the most part. I think Jimmer may have developed enough to be a back-up PG on a bad team in the mold of a poor man's Jeremy Lin, but who knows.

Disagree with the bolded, though. How often does a #3 pick spend time in the D League? Seems unprecedented. I would think you want him around the big boys as much as possible.

We need him on the active roster. We simply dont have enough wing depth to keep him off it. Marcus Smart and Jonas Jerebko are the backup SFs right now.

I don't trust Brown to do anything except defend in isolation at an NBA level.  He won't be much use on the active roster.  I expect that he, Hunter, Young, and Jerebko will all get looks at the backup 3 spot and ultimately Hunter or Young will win out, with Jerebko seeing most of his time at the 4 and 5.

Brown needs to work on his ability to create for himself and others, as well as off-ball shooting and defending in team concepts.  He can do that in the D-League.  I'm afraid if he does it in Boston, he'll end up jacking a lot of three pointers a la Smart, or embarass himself and kill his confidence trying to force contact dribbling wildly into multiple defenders and turning the ball over.

The thought of Young or Hunter being our primary backups to Jae Crowder is not comforting. I hope and expect Brown to grab that spot.

[crimson_stallion]

Starting to get more and more upset that we didn't take Dunn...21 points, 9 reb, 4 assists today.  His first game was arguably even better.   

Hield had 21, 7 and 2 today as well - poor shooting percentages, but he's getting baskets. 

I'm willing to put faith in Brown, he has a ton of talent - hope he doesn't prove me wrong.

Keep in mind Dunn is a few years older and also has significant injury concerns.

How many TOs did Dunn have?

Today:
21 pts, 9 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, 4 TO, 10-18 FG

Previous game:
27 pts, 5 reb, 2 ast, 3 stl, 1 blk, 2 TO, 9-17 FG

Unsurprisingly, Jamal Murray looks absolutely terrible.

[crimson_stallion]

Starting to get more and more upset that we didn't take Dunn...21 points, 9 reb, 4 assists today.  His first game was arguably even better.   

Hield had 21, 7 and 2 today as well - poor shooting percentages, but he's getting baskets. 

I'm willing to put faith in Brown, he has a ton of talent - hope he doesn't prove me wrong.

I mean, he's like three years older than Brown and was the most ready prospect in the draft. He's supposed to come out and do that kind of stuff in the summer league.

Not really...

Everyone considered Okafor to be NBA ready, and he wasn't as good in summer league as Dunn.  Smart wasn't nearly as good, and he was also supposed to be very NBA ready.

Are you arguing that Dunn wasn't more NBA ready than Brown, or that more NBA ready players don't generally do better in summer league? Because I think you'll find both are wrong (although circumsantual evidence may support either one)

I'm arguing that the Dunn's play so far is incredibly impressive, summer league or not. 

He's been picking up fouls at a crazy rate, but beyond that he's done very little wrong.  I'm very doubtful that Brown has more upside, regardless of his current age.

[jpotter33]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

#politicalcorrectness #cuetheBiasResponseTeam 

EDIT: Sorry, Pho, nothing against you, but this whole concept just drives me nuts <-- oh, there I go again! Is nuts offensive, too, or has nobody found the occasion to be "offended" by that term yet?

[Beat LA]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

TP

Same.  TP, Pho .

[Beat LA]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

#politicalcorrectness #cuetheBiasResponseTeam 

EDIT: Sorry, Pho, nothing against you, but this whole concept just drives me nuts <-- oh, there I go again! Is nuts offensive, too, or has nobody found the occasion to be "offended" by that term yet?

Sorry, BitterJim.  I had to, man, lol .

[PhoSita]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

#politicalcorrectness #cuetheBiasResponseTeam 

EDIT: Sorry, Pho, nothing against you, but this whole concept just drives me nuts <-- oh, there I go again! Is nuts offensive, too, or has nobody found the occasion to be "offended" by that term yet?

I know you come at this sort of topic from a different angle than I do.  I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about #PCCulture.


What I'll say is that I think you need to stop thinking in terms of that word "offended."  This isn't about policing word choice as a way to say who's "good" and who is "bad."

The reason the use of the term "bipolar" is problematic is that many people don't really understand what that word means, in large part because of how that, along with words like "manic" and even "depressed" get used in popular culture. 

That's a big deal for people who actually struggle with bipolar disorder (or whatever the proper clinical term is for it these days).  A large part of that struggle is dealing with popular misconceptions about the challenges they face.

The same can kind of be said about "crazy" and other words stigmatizing mental illness in general.  We have a problem in this country with stigmatizing mental illness and not providing support for people who deal with it.  Many people who deal with it don't get adequate treatment as a result.

Alright. 

/soapbox

[jpotter33]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

#politicalcorrectness #cuetheBiasResponseTeam 

EDIT: Sorry, Pho, nothing against you, but this whole concept just drives me nuts <-- oh, there I go again! Is nuts offensive, too, or has nobody found the occasion to be "offended" by that term yet?

I know you come at this sort of topic from a different angle than I do.  I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about #PCCulture.


What I'll say is that I think you need to stop thinking in terms of that word "offended."  This isn't about policing word choice as a way to say who's "good" and who is "bad."

The reason the use of the term "bipolar" is problematic is that many people don't really understand what that word means, in large part because of how that, along with words like "manic" and even "depressed" get used in popular culture. 

That's a big deal for people who actually struggle with bipolar disorder (or whatever the proper clinical term is for it these days).  A large part of that struggle is dealing with popular misconceptions about the challenges they face.

The same can kind of be said about "crazy" and other words stigmatizing mental illness in general.  We have a problem in this country with stigmatizing mental illness and not providing support for people who deal with it.  Many people who deal with it don't get adequate treatment as a result.

Alright. 

/soapbox

We've had these discussions many times before, and I don't want to derail this thread either. But you did misunderstand me a bit.

I agree that it's probably in bad taste to use the term "bipolar" to refer to something that is wavering, dynamic, or otherwise constantly changing back and forth. I mean, I'm not going to tell people to stop using the term (you know - Mill's Harm Principle and all), but I do think better terms are out there that more accurately describe this concept that are safer.

But the term "crazy" is so far removed from any specific mental illness or diagnosis that it's crossing the line of absurdity to deem it inappropriate. How many words do we use colloquially in everyday language that refer to something different than they were originally intended for - quite a bit. By that same logic, using the term "nuts," as in "Man, you're nuts," would be inappropriate, which I just find absolutely ridiculous. We have more serious problems to deal with than semantics and people who wear their feelings on their shoulder.

Case in point - recently at some university (I can't remember which one) their "Bias Response Team," which is an absolute ridiculous idea in itself, was flagged for someone using the idiom "on the other hand," because it might be offensive to those handicapped individuals with only one hand. This is the kind of non-sense ish that this type of "semantic Nazism" leads to.

[Beat LA]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

#politicalcorrectness #cuetheBiasResponseTeam 

EDIT: Sorry, Pho, nothing against you, but this whole concept just drives me nuts <-- oh, there I go again! Is nuts offensive, too, or has nobody found the occasion to be "offended" by that term yet?

I know you come at this sort of topic from a different angle than I do.  I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about #PCCulture.


What I'll say is that I think you need to stop thinking in terms of that word "offended."  This isn't about policing word choice as a way to say who's "good" and who is "bad."

The reason the use of the term "bipolar" is problematic is that many people don't really understand what that word means, in large part because of how that, along with words like "manic" and even "depressed" get used in popular culture. 

That's a big deal for people who actually struggle with bipolar disorder (or whatever the proper clinical term is for it these days).  A large part of that struggle is dealing with popular misconceptions about the challenges they face.

The same can kind of be said about "crazy" and other words stigmatizing mental illness in general.  We have a problem in this country with stigmatizing mental illness and not providing support for people who deal with it.  Many people who deal with it don't get adequate treatment as a result.

Alright. 

/soapbox

Yeah, it's like joking that you have ADD if you're not into doing a chore or something, or saying that you have OCD because you tidy up a lot and maintain a very clean living environment, or saying that you must have OCD because you washed your hands twice within a short amount of time, or whatever, which, I'm sorry to say, has nothing to do with said ailment.

I've also seen things that turn OCD from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder into Obsessive Christmas Disorder, and sweatshirts that say 'If you're crazy and you know it shake your meds'. On the one hand, such things can provide amusement and are probably innocent if the person wearing the OCD sweatshirt regarding Christmas just happens to love everything about Christmas, but on the other hand, the spin off of the children's song can come off as very offensive to someone who takes medication(s) for depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, etc. Some people may not grasp the weight of what they're doing by wearing such things until you explain it to them, while others might look at it and see it as hilarious because 'retards' wouldn't even understand it in the first place. That's another word that gets thrown around willy nilly.  Sigh.

Okay, I'm done, lol .

[Beat LA]

People need to really calm down on Brown. He is a project and honestly looks better than Bender who is another project. And you guys are bipolar.

No offense to you (seriously), but this term is being thrown around here a lot lately, always incorrectly, and ruffles my feathers a bit. Let's substitute a different word -- how about "crazy"? That's benign and insulting enough

How about we entirely avoid words that stigmatize mental illness?  There's a thought.

#politicalcorrectness #cuetheBiasResponseTeam 

EDIT: Sorry, Pho, nothing against you, but this whole concept just drives me nuts <-- oh, there I go again! Is nuts offensive, too, or has nobody found the occasion to be "offended" by that term yet?

I know you come at this sort of topic from a different angle than I do.  I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about #PCCulture.


What I'll say is that I think you need to stop thinking in terms of that word "offended."  This isn't about policing word choice as a way to say who's "good" and who is "bad."

The reason the use of the term "bipolar" is problematic is that many people don't really understand what that word means, in large part because of how that, along with words like "manic" and even "depressed" get used in popular culture. 

That's a big deal for people who actually struggle with bipolar disorder (or whatever the proper clinical term is for it these days).  A large part of that struggle is dealing with popular misconceptions about the challenges they face.

The same can kind of be said about "crazy" and other words stigmatizing mental illness in general.  We have a problem in this country with stigmatizing mental illness and not providing support for people who deal with it.  Many people who deal with it don't get adequate treatment as a result.

Alright. 

/soapbox

We've had these discussions many times before, and I don't want to derail this thread either. But you did misunderstand me a bit.

I agree that it's probably in bad taste to use the term "bipolar" to refer to something that is wavering, dynamic, or otherwise constantly changing back and forth. I mean, I'm not going to tell people to stop using the term (you know - Mill's Harm Principle and all), but I do think better terms are out there that more accurately describe this concept that are safer.

But the term "crazy" is so far removed from any specific mental illness or diagnosis that it's crossing the line of absurdity to deem it inappropriate. How many words do we use colloquially in everyday language that refer to something different than they were originally intended for - quite a bit. By that same logic, using the term "nuts," as in "Man, you're nuts," would be inappropriate, which I just find absolutely ridiculous. We have more serious problems to deal with than semantics and people who wear their feelings on their shoulder.

Case in point - recently at some university (I can't remember which one) their "Bias Response Team," which is an absolute ridiculous idea in itself, was flagged for someone using the idiom "on the other hand," because it might be offensive to those handicapped individuals with only one hand. This is the kind of non-sense ish that this type of "semantic Nazism" leads to.

Couldn't we just say that we're flip flopping, or reference any number of politicians who have done so, to make the same point without even mentioning a mental illness?  I think that that's the much better, and easier, way to go about it, myself.  I have absolutely no idea who Mill, or what their 'harm principle', is, though.