By how much do you guys think Butler is better than Crowder?

[heyvik]

One plus is Crowder can play the 3 and 4.

Butler is a 2 but can play 3 for stretches.

[CelticsBR]

Butler is a top 10 scorer and top 10 defender.

Jae is a role player scorer and a top 10 defender.

As others have said, Butler's ability to create his own shot and get to the rim/free throw line are what make him a far superior upgrade to Crowder.

One is a role player, and one is arguably a top 10 NBA player given the strength of his two way game.

Curry, Harden, Durant, Lebron, Cousins, Davis, Westbrook, PG, Thompson, Leonard. Somewhere after 10 Butler fits in with guys like Lowry, Derozen, Lillard, LA, Wall, Paul.

Outside of Harden really, who in that top ten isn't a great two way player?

Westbrook.

Curry is a gambler on defense

[Csfan1984]

All star vs Good role player

[droopdog7]

Butler is top 15-20, Jae is top 30-50 player in the league.
It is a significant upgrade cause we could really use another scorer to put us in that contention spot. However, with both being a Marquette products, i would like to see them team up. I am sure they would too.
Both are versatile, but Butler is way better in ISO situations.

Jae top 30-50? 

Um no, not even close.  Crowder may not even be top 100 frankly.

[Celtic_Pride777]

All star vs Good role player

TP...basically

[max215]

Butler is top 15-20, Jae is top 30-50 player in the league.
It is a significant upgrade cause we could really use another scorer to put us in that contention spot. However, with both being a Marquette products, i would like to see them team up. I am sure they would too.
Both are versatile, but Butler is way better in ISO situations.

Jae top 30-50? 

Um no, not even close.  Crowder may not even be top 100 frankly.

Forget 100, I'd like to see you name 50 players better than Jae.

[LarBrd33]

10%

[LarBrd33]

Crowder per-36:  16.2 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2 steals with 44%/34%/82% shooting

Butler per-36:  20.4 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.6 steals 45%/31%/83%

Butler has a usage rate of 23.9

Crowder has a usage rate of 17.6

That's 1.36x higher usage rate.   This math makes no [dang] sense, but let's multiply Crowder's Per-36 points and assists by 1.36:  22 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 2 steals with 44%/34%/82%

Butler's like 10% better at most.  Role matters.  Jae took 11.1 shots per game.   Butler took 15.4 shots per game.  Crowder was actually a better 3-point shooter last season.   Difference is, Crowder was contributing to a playoff team and Butler was leading his team to the lottery. 


They went to the same school.   Compare their college stats.

2011-12 Crowder Sophomore stats:  17.5 points, 8.4 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 2.5 steals, 1 block with 50%/35%/76% shooting in 32.9mpg.

2010-11 Butler Junior stats:  15.7 points, 6.1 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.4 blocks, 49%/35%/78% in 34.6mpg

Crowder was better as a 2nd year college player than Butler was as a 3rd year College player.   Obviously both have improved.  Maybe Butler has improved more.  But Butler is also pretty overrated.  Premium Brand Ricky Davis.  Role matters.  I'll tell you one thing... trading #3 + Crowder for Butler would have been a bad move.

[LooseCannon]

Butler is top 15-20, Jae is top 30-50 player in the league.
It is a significant upgrade cause we could really use another scorer to put us in that contention spot. However, with both being a Marquette products, i would like to see them team up. I am sure they would too.
Both are versatile, but Butler is way better in ISO situations.

Jae top 30-50? 

Um no, not even close.  Crowder may not even be top 100 frankly.

Crowder probably has about equal value as IT.

[Surferdad]

10%

THANK-YOU for answering the OP's question.  I put it at 24.68%

[jambr380]

TP, Lar - we are in agreement on this one. Thank you for providing stats. Crowder finally had an opportunity to 'break out' last year. Why do we think he has no chance to improve as he continues to become a major player for this team?

I wouldn't mind Butler on the Cs - he would fit right in, but I am not trading Crowder and his amazing contract. Bradley, future pick(s) (not BKN '17), and other pieces (Rozier isn't a throw-in). With Turner gone, several players on this team - mainly Smart, Crowder, and Rozier - will have the opportunity to emerge as iso players in addition to their catch and shoot games.

Crowder is very good and the deal including him, Bradley, and the #3 is laughable. A team with Butler, Pau, Noah, Mirotic, Gibson, and a healthy Rose couldn't make the playoffs last year. We tied for 3rd.

[jpotter33]

Butler is a significant upgrade, and there's no way to tell how much of an upgrade until we know for sure that this year's Crowder wasn't just an aberration.

I still think it was a mistake that we didn't trade Butler for Crowder and the Brooklyn pick at the trade deadline. I think we'd have a good chance of coming out of the East with Butler instead of Crowder, with the possibility of adding another impact player next summer, too.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Crowder is a nice piece...but he can't "Take Over" a game, like Butler can at times.

[jambr380]

Crowder is a nice piece...but he can't "Take Over" a game, like Butler can at times.

Are you sure? Before last year, Crowder was just an after-thought. Butler has had a number of years to become the player he is, Crowder showed marked improvement throughout the year in his driving and pull-up jumper game. When he went down, the Cs blew sole ownership of the 3rd seed and, in turn, sucked it up in the playoffs. I think some are discounting Crowder's impact.

I really hope he comes out this year and blows up (in a good way). All indications are that he has that potential given his growth projectory (and tireless work ethic).

[Monkhouse]

I personally believe Ainge should hold out for Cousins. Keeping those picks, plus Bradley or Crowder, who can be each expendable should be more suitable than Butler.

TP to Labrd for the statistical evidence. But I'm not convinced Butler is really that much better. I think 12-15% better, but at what cost, and contract cost? (Cap friendly, but still twice as much as Crowder's.)

Butler is infinitely more athletic, so we could also argue that in Brad Steven's system; he would get a lot more open looks, make just as good passes as Isaiah Thomas, and probably become the heart and soul just as Jae Crowder has for us.