Steroids

[Granath]

karl malone was roids probably

http://cdn.cnwimg.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/karl-malone.jpg

larry bird no

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fe/a3/72/fea372c2c449c0c35ab8b20259a9c410.jpg

That smile on Malone's face is just a little too whatever it is.

Actually even Bird toned up later in his career and due to his back he was severely restricted from doing much of anything. The stuff that guy had to go through to get on the court was incredible. Not a good comparison.

I'm sure there are some players on HGH and steroids but I have no idea who they are (and neither does anyone else here). I also know that with $100m on the line many of these guys work out 2-3 hours every day, have their meals prepared by a professional dietitian (haven't we all criticized Sully for NOT doing this?) and make their living by being in the best shape of their life. So instead of assuming the worst and throwing around unfounded accusations, I'll leave this thread for those who want to invent yet another reason to hate on someone.

Just remember...Jae Crowder.

[Otsje P]

Walker,

You opened this topic, and now 10 out of 14 posts are yours. What about making al your points in one post and then just reacting to others who are commenting. Instead of posting 3 posts in a row?

On topic:

Are you telling me NBA athletes don't go through dope tests?

[walker834]

NBA test is pretty weak. It's done once a year and there are no random tests.  A lot of banned substances in other sports are also not tested for. 

The just started testing for HGH in 2015.  There are other substances that weren't even tested.  Lebron was like "I don't think it will be a problem".

[dreamgreen]

Funny topic, there was a time were I thought without question Lamar Odom did roids. He was a bean pole for years than 1 year he came in with about 25 lbs. of muscle and veins popping out. But in all reality it is way to hard to figure out who has done them or not. People with large bone structure put size on easily so start with checking their bones hehehe.

[Ed Hollison]

Like the OP I also feel pretty strongly about this. I've heard that the NBA testing program is a joke. The league has zero interest in busting anyone for this, because if PED use really is rampant in basketball, they certainly don't want that to become a story. And like the NFL, if PEDs are making guys more explosive, then the entertainment value will suffer if they clean up the game. Recall how hesitant the MLB was to deal with this problem. No one cared when Sosa and Maguire were chasing Roger Maris for the homerun record. The MLB only got serious about testing and punishing when the US Congress got involved.

I think PED use is rampant in basketball. Might have been back in the 90s, for that matter, but there's no question in my mind it's more prevalent now. To do as much aerobic activity as these guys do in the course of the season and end with as much muscle mass as some of these guys have... I just can't believe it's all natural.

On Lebron in particular, at this point I'd be shocked to hear he's not on something, and loads of it. There are so many bits of evidence on this, including the shape of his face. But the kicker for me is the athleticism that he showed late in the postseason, when everyone else was gassed and/or worn down, at the age of 31. That alley oop he caught seemingly above the top of the backboard, I think in game 6. And more subtly, that attempted dunk on Draymond Green in the last minute of game 7 where he was fouled; I think he was about 13 feet in the air. The dude is basically the equivalent of the racing car that's curiously faster than all the other cars on the track. Bigger, stronger, and faster than all other world-class athletes. It's so common to just say "Lebron James is a physical freak!" But given the doping scandals we've seen in sports in recent years, I think it's extremely unlikely that the guy who's head and shoulders ahead of every other world-class athlete in terms of physical ability is clean. Sorry.

[meangreenmachine]

For once, we agree, I would never want LeBron on this team.   I do think he has used PEDs.  But I dislike him more for the egocentric personality and penchant for drama.

I have no idea if Lebron used PEDs and there's no proof that he did.

Same and agreed.

I did see him play before he was drafted and he was a huge man-child back then. So if he was using, he must have been also using back then because he hasn't dramatically changed his body shape versus other athletes.

Disagree:



We do not see similar before/after pictures for physical specimens like Karl Malone. Here is Karl at Louisiana Tech:

...shakes head...

Lebron was 18 when he was drafted. Malone in that picture is 21.

Apparently the picture was taken in 1982, meaning Malone was 18 or 19 at the time. Look at that baby face, which was shed by the time he was 21/22 (check out pictures of him on draft night and his rookie card). He was always a big, muscular man.

There's generally a huge difference between those ages in muscle development. If you're going to do a comparison, make sure the guys are comparable ages.

It was the earliest picture I could find of Malone. Their age is quite comparable.

This is Lebron when he was still 17 - http://www.hoopsvibe.com/images/stories/Lebron%20high%20school%205.png. He's huge for that age.

He looks average, not particularly huge or bulky, for an elite basketball prospect of his height.

When there's a shred of evidence then feel free to accuse someone. Until then, be better than that.

I am not accusing anyone of anything. The only thing established is that LeBron has changed considerably whereas we did not see as dramatic of a transformation in Karl Malone, just as a counterexample. Why did LeBron change? Hopefully just diet and exercise.

[Ed Hollison]

The other thing about Lebron is that in the past two years since he's been in Cleveland he's taken controversial trips back to Miami mid-season for curious reasons. This past season it was "to work out with Dwyane Wade" and all the media attention gravitated towards that. The previous reason it was to rehab his back in the warm weather.

What's more likely than these explanations above is that he found a trainer who set him up with a PED regimen in Miami and he's been getting a cycle in late in the season in preparation for the playoffs.

I remember a couple years ago he and Wade lost a bunch of weight before the season opened up, and they explained it as "we've been cutting out carbs". Seriously, if you don't remember this go look it up. These guys have never been fat, they just lost a bunch of muscle mass. And Lebron was playing below the rim the whole first half of the season, and people were wondering what was wrong with him. I think what happened were these guys were coming off a championship, were trying to quit whatever they were on before for the sake of their long-term health, and after a couple months of experiencing NBA mortality, said "f*** it". At this point I think he's all in, long-term health be [dang]ed, and I fully expect him to be one of the most athletic players in the game deep into his 30s.

[Dedalus]

I'm Lebron's age and do not weight the same amount as I did 13 years ago.

[Ed Hollison]

To be clear, I think this issue is bigger than one guy and bigger than one sport. Case in point is Serena Williams, who is DOMINATING a sport in her mid-30s that other women have been too old to play by their mid-20s.

The frustration to me is that I don't know. Nobody knows. It makes me especially furious that some athletes can be considered the greatest ever at their sport and I, personally, suspect they're cheating.

[ederson]

To be clear, I think this issue is bigger than one guy and bigger than one sport. Case in point is Serena Williams, who is DOMINATING a sport in her mid-30s that other women have been too old to play by their mid-20s.

The frustration to me is that I don't know. Nobody knows. It makes me especially furious that some athletes can be considered the greatest ever at their sport and I, personally, suspect they're cheating.

exactly... but you know.... we hate lebron ,so....

Pro sports and steroids go together ...... Even Archers use some kind of doping!!!!

[fairweatherfan]

Well, if we're just casting aspersions without any real proof, our marquee FA pickup this year had season-ending pectoral tears in consecutive seasons.  Those kinds of fluky severe major muscle injuries are typical of PED use.  I trust everyone will do the right thing and immediately jump to the appropriate conclusions.

[meangreenmachine]

For once, we agree, I would never want LeBron on this team.   I do think he has used PEDs.  But I dislike him more for the egocentric personality and penchant for drama.

I have no idea if Lebron used PEDs and there's no proof that he did.

Same and agreed.

I did see him play before he was drafted and he was a huge man-child back then. So if he was using, he must have been also using back then because he hasn't dramatically changed his body shape versus other athletes.

Disagree:



We do not see similar before/after pictures for physical specimens like Karl Malone. Here is Karl at Louisiana Tech:

Karl Malone is a bad example.  He was probably on HGH himself.  Bird not so much lol.

HGH at Louisiana Tech and Salt Lake City in the 1980s and 1990s without getting caught? Anything is possible, of course, but I suspect it's extremely unlikely (HGH was not even developed until 1985, so he definitely did not use HGH at Louisiana Tech; he came from a very poor single mother family of nine, so he did not have money at the time). By all accounts, Malone and Stockton were simply fitness freaks of the highest order. They did not display that weird face/jaw change you see in people who use.

[ederson]

Well, if we're just casting aspersions without any real proof, our marquee FA pickup this year had season-ending pectoral tears in consecutive seasons.  Those kinds of fluky severe major muscle injuries are typical of PED use.  I trust everyone will do the right thing and immediately jump to the appropriate conclusions.

shhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

don`t say things like that , people will start falling from their pink clouds

[dannyboy35]

Sadly, I think most players from all four major sports are on hgh.

[Ed Hollison]

Well, if we're just casting aspersions without any real proof, our marquee FA pickup this year had season-ending pectoral tears in consecutive seasons.  Those kinds of fluky severe major muscle injuries are typical of PED use.  I trust everyone will do the right thing and immediately jump to the appropriate conclusions.

You're right. In fact, I think it's strongly likely that there are members of the Celtics roster that have done PEDs.

The reason I bring up Lebron isn't just that I'm a Celtics fan. I also brought up Serena Williams. I could have brought up, for instance, Dara Torres who set a new US record in swimming at age 40.

The point is with these athletes is that there's a lot at stake. Is Lebron James the greatest basketball player ever? Is he greater than Russell, or Wilt, or Jordan? A lot of people believe the answer is yes. And we're having the same conversations about Serena Williams, and Dara Torres, and Ray Lewis, etc. This is what I find frustrating.