Re-signing Amir and JJ, if no Durant (Merged)

[BudweiserCeltic]

The decision on these two needs to come by I think 5 pm tomorrow.  They guarantee the 7th, which means they need to clear waivers by 5 pm on the 6th.  They stay on waivers for 48 hours, which means they need to be placed on waivers by 5 pm on the 4th.  As Durant will have made his decision by then, the Celtics' decision on what to do will be very easy.  With KD, they're released.  Without KD, both should still be here.

Maybe, but all I've heard that (and as Eric Pincus mentioned) usually contracts are worded such as that it simply means waived by or waived on that date (not cleared waivers by). Everything reported from Boston media insinuates that they have until the 7th to make the decision. So I'll assume that to be the case here, of course allowing for the possibility for the 5th being the date to waive them, but I'll stand by the 7th.

[saltlover]

Renounce the QO's on Zeller and Sullinger and you could almost retain Amir and definitely retain JJ.

If Durant signs elsewhere, you can keep all of them. Not saying you should, simply saying you can.

No, we'd have to get rid of one unless there is a trade.  We'd be about $2 million short of room.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Renounce the QO's on Zeller and Sullinger and you could almost retain Amir and definitely retain JJ.

If Durant signs elsewhere, you can keep all of them. Not saying you should, simply saying you can.

No, we'd have to get rid of one unless there is a trade.  We'd be about $2 million short of room.

You're correct. Was using their QO, instead of their actual cap hold. I have corrected it.

Guess the question later comes who you value more between one of them and Young + Hunter.

But you could keep one of them regardless.

[saltlover]

The decision on these two needs to come by I think 5 pm tomorrow.  They guarantee the 7th, which means they need to clear waivers by 5 pm on the 6th.  They stay on waivers for 48 hours, which means they need to be placed on waivers by 5 pm on the 4th.  As Durant will have made his decision by then, the Celtics' decision on what to do will be very easy.  With KD, they're released.  Without KD, both should still be here.

Maybe, but all I've heard that (and as Eric Pincus mentioned) usually contracts are worded such as that it simply means waived by or waived on that date. Everything reported from Boston media insinuates that they have until the 7th to make the decision. So I'll assume that to be the case here, of course allowing for the possibility for the 5th being the date to waive them, but I'll stand by the 7th.

Well, I think we'll see one way or the other before then.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The decision on these two needs to come by I think 5 pm tomorrow.  They guarantee the 7th, which means they need to clear waivers by 5 pm on the 6th.  They stay on waivers for 48 hours, which means they need to be placed on waivers by 5 pm on the 4th.  As Durant will have made his decision by then, the Celtics' decision on what to do will be very easy.  With KD, they're released.  Without KD, both should still be here.

Maybe, but all I've heard that (and as Eric Pincus mentioned) usually contracts are worded such as that it simply means waived by or waived on that date. Everything reported from Boston media insinuates that they have until the 7th to make the decision. So I'll assume that to be the case here, of course allowing for the possibility for the 5th being the date to waive them, but I'll stand by the 7th.

Well, I think we'll see one way or the other before then.

Agreed.

[The Oracle]

For all we know the C's plan to trade Bradley for a draft pick to create more cap space if Durant is acquired.  That would create a lot of other possibilities and you could include Young or others and create even more.   

[BudweiserCeltic]

For all we know the C's plan to trade Bradley for a draft pick to create more cap space if Durant is acquired.  That would create a lot of other possibilities and you could include Young or others and create even more.   

You don't trade Bradley just to keep Amir/Jerebko, etc...

[The Oracle]

For all we know the C's plan to trade Bradley for a draft pick to create more cap space if Durant is acquired.  That would create a lot of other possibilities and you could include Young or others and create even more.   

You don't trade Bradley just to keep Amir/Jerebko, etc...

He is the obvious odd man out if the C's need more cap to get things done.  It will be very interesting to see what Danny pulls off if Durant commits.  No way do you just let Jerebko, Amir, Sully and Zeller all walk for no return.

[TheSundanceKid]

They have team options that have to be exercised (or not) by June 7.

Non guaranteed contracts rather than team options. But I'm saying if we waive the second year can we turn around and offer them a new deal?

They are being held back directly for a Durant decision in which they would need that extra 17mil in cap space..

So if Durant doesnt sign here the Celtics will quickly pick up their options... and no they dont want to negotiate new contracts because the market is out of control now and both Amir and Jonas wou.ld look for more money... both have bargain contracts at this point

And if you have to decide on them before Durant? That was my question

We are allowed to resign them, but we wouldn't have Bird rights.

TP thanks. So it is just using cap space. I'm just thinking there could be a wink wink deal with them to re-sign them if we had to release them in prep for Durant and ended up missing out. It would eat into our cap space but it's a gamble worth taking

I have been wondering how the math works out on that.
If we sign KD we have no cap space and still Jaylen to sign + other rookies.
Most importantly our bench will be Smart + Ko + rookies and sophomores. Not so nice to sell to KD. I'm sure DA got something planned.

The first round rookies all have cap holds accounting for them before we sign Durant so he'll know that they will be there. Now that we have Horford, adding Durant would mean we have the room exception to spend and then the vet min. So we could get 1 guy at about $3m per year, hopefully at the C spot. At that point I think our roster is 14/15 so we could add one more guy without trading anyone

[vjcsmoke]

I believe that we can resign them, but we'd go over the cap into luxury tax territory.  At that point it's a strategic decision whether keeping them is worth incurring luxury tax.  I don't believe we'd keep them if KD signs.

And you're right, once we waive these guys, they won't make it to free agency.  Their contracts are absolute bargains compared to today's crazy market.  Teams will pick them up on waivers to get 1 year of bargain priced play and worry about the market next year when the cap goes up again.

If Jerebko would sign for the room exception that would be great.  Otherwise maybe we'd go for someone like Crawford who might take less to play with a contender?

After Durant, we wouldn't have any real cap space to sign them with. Pretty much you'll only have the Room Exception, and that would certainly be good enough for only one of them.

I could see Jerebko actually accepting the vet minimum

I'll say this though, if Amir and Jerebko are waived, which we'll need to do regardless to get Durant, there's no way some other team doesn't claim Amir and Jerebko. They won't be free-agents this year no matter the scenario, I can pretty much guarantee it.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I believe that we can resign them, but we'd go over the cap into luxury tax territory.  At that point it's a strategic decision whether keeping them is worth incurring luxury tax.  I don't believe we'd keep them if KD signs.

And you're right, once we waive these guys, they won't make it to free agency.  Their contracts are absolute bargains compared to today's crazy market.  Teams will pick them up on waivers to get 1 year of bargain priced play and worry about the market next year when the cap goes up again.

If Jerebko would sign for the room exception that would be great.  Otherwise maybe we'd go for someone like Crawford who might take less to play with a contender?

After Durant, we wouldn't have any real cap space to sign them with. Pretty much you'll only have the Room Exception, and that would certainly be good enough for only one of them.

I could see Jerebko actually accepting the vet minimum

I'll say this though, if Amir and Jerebko are waived, which we'll need to do regardless to get Durant, there's no way some other team doesn't claim Amir and Jerebko. They won't be free-agents this year no matter the scenario, I can pretty much guarantee it.

You're wrong in your assessment about luxury tax and ability to re-resign them to an amount that would get us there.

To get Durant, you need to waive them and renounce them. After that you only have room exception and vet. minimum. But they won't get that far, someone will claim them off waivers.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Renounce the QO's on Zeller and Sullinger and you could almost retain Amir and definitely retain JJ.

If Durant signs elsewhere, you can keep all of them. Not saying you should, simply saying you can.

No, we'd have to get rid of one unless there is a trade.  We'd be about $2 million short of room.

You're correct. Was using their QO, instead of their actual cap hold. I have corrected it.

Guess the question later comes who you value more between one of them and Young + Hunter.

But you could keep one of them regardless.

Revising what I said here a bit. If we manage to get a letter signed with the team and player that we won't make a contract this season with Yabusele and Zizic, then we'd be able to keep all our remaining free-agents with $463,183 cap to spare if Durant is not an option.

Not saying we should, would be dependent on contract negotiations again, but we could if the desire is there.

[saltlover]

I believe that we can resign them, but we'd go over the cap into luxury tax territory.  At that point it's a strategic decision whether keeping them is worth incurring luxury tax.  I don't believe we'd keep them if KD signs.

And you're right, once we waive these guys, they won't make it to free agency.  Their contracts are absolute bargains compared to today's crazy market.  Teams will pick them up on waivers to get 1 year of bargain priced play and worry about the market next year when the cap goes up again.

If Jerebko would sign for the room exception that would be great.  Otherwise maybe we'd go for someone like Crawford who might take less to play with a contender?

After Durant, we wouldn't have any real cap space to sign them with. Pretty much you'll only have the Room Exception, and that would certainly be good enough for only one of them.

I could see Jerebko actually accepting the vet minimum

I'll say this though, if Amir and Jerebko are waived, which we'll need to do regardless to get Durant, there's no way some other team doesn't claim Amir and Jerebko. They won't be free-agents this year no matter the scenario, I can pretty much guarantee it.

You're wrong in your assessment about luxury tax and ability to re-resign them to an amount that would get us there.

To get Durant, you need to waive them and renounce them. After that you only have room exception and vet. minimum. But they won't get that far, someone will claim them off waivers.

This all goes back to when they need to be released by, but I don't think Amir will be claimed.  A team would need to be able to fit his salary outright into their cap room as of June 30th, or have a large enough trade exception, if he's on waivers before the end of the moratorium.  I don't think there's a team that has either the room or a large enough exception.

There are a few teams that could claim JJ tho.  Portland, Cleveland, and Golden State all would have room.  He'd be a nice fit on any.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I believe that we can resign them, but we'd go over the cap into luxury tax territory.  At that point it's a strategic decision whether keeping them is worth incurring luxury tax.  I don't believe we'd keep them if KD signs.

And you're right, once we waive these guys, they won't make it to free agency.  Their contracts are absolute bargains compared to today's crazy market.  Teams will pick them up on waivers to get 1 year of bargain priced play and worry about the market next year when the cap goes up again.

If Jerebko would sign for the room exception that would be great.  Otherwise maybe we'd go for someone like Crawford who might take less to play with a contender?

After Durant, we wouldn't have any real cap space to sign them with. Pretty much you'll only have the Room Exception, and that would certainly be good enough for only one of them.

I could see Jerebko actually accepting the vet minimum

I'll say this though, if Amir and Jerebko are waived, which we'll need to do regardless to get Durant, there's no way some other team doesn't claim Amir and Jerebko. They won't be free-agents this year no matter the scenario, I can pretty much guarantee it.

You're wrong in your assessment about luxury tax and ability to re-resign them to an amount that would get us there.

To get Durant, you need to waive them and renounce them. After that you only have room exception and vet. minimum. But they won't get that far, someone will claim them off waivers.

This all goes back to when they need to be released by, but I don't think Amir will be claimed.  A team would need to be able to fit his salary outright into their cap room as of June 30th, or have a large enough trade exception, if he's on waivers before the end of the moratorium.  I don't think there's a team that has either the room or a large enough exception.

There are a few teams that could claim JJ tho.  Portland, Cleveland, and Golden State all would have room.  He'd be a nice fit on any.

I just don't think they go past Brooklyn and Brooklyn has the cap space.

[mmmmm]

Renounce the QO's on Zeller and Sullinger and you could almost retain Amir and definitely retain JJ.

If Durant signs elsewhere, you can keep all of them. Not saying you should, simply saying you can.

No, we'd have to get rid of one unless there is a trade.  We'd be about $2 million short of room.

? If Durant signs elsewhere, we would not need cap room to retain all of Amir, JJ, Tyler & Sully.  The first two would already be under contract.  The latter two are Bird-Rights FAs, meaning we can go over the cap to re-sign them, should we want to (assuming we haven't renounced their cap holds).

Whether we want to is a separate question, of course.