2016 Summer League Thread

[Beat LA]

Mark Cuban's ignorance aside, has anyone else seen this step back three from Thon Maker? *facepalm*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0JZQ88y9Y4

It's interesting to see him (maybe) pan out after all, but why the facepalm? It's not like we had much chance to get him when MIL shocked everyone and took him at #10. For all we know Danny would have nabbed him at #16 or #23.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that if there was one team who would take him that early before the rumor on draft night was made public via Chad Ford, iirc, it would be Milwaukee, just given their track record with the Greek Freak , and I do believe that we could have gotten him, along with Poeltl the Turtle , but we would have had to commit to a full rebuild in order to do so, most likely, imo, which is not a popular view on this blog, and that's fine .  It's just frustrating seeing a 7'1 guy from high school have more skills than the guy we took at 3, imo.  Welp .

Would you not be disappointed if he turned into the Porzingis of this draft, in a way, because I think that a great deal of people would be, and with good reason, imo.

What good reason? We had no plausible way of knowing we needed to move up to #9 to get him. Can't feel bad about every player we don't draft. Nobody here, nor anywhere else thought that he'd be gone by #16. Poeltl we knew would be gone at that point, that's true.

I think we can all agree that MIL was a logical team to make that gamble, but it's not like anyone knew they were going to pull the trigger than early.

Maybe, but why try and trade with Toronto for 9 when Sacramento was actively shopping 8?  We would have needed to do a trade prior to that with Atlanta in order to get it done, most likely, but I think that it was definitely doable.  The problem, though, is that no one would have liked it, lol , but that's okay. 

[Beat LA]

Another poor outing for Bender, tonight, although, in fairness, Maker also struggled during the last two games when they moved him from center to the 4 spot, but still, Bender's line of 10 points on 3/13 fg, 2/9 on threes, and 2/2 from the line, 9 rebounds (3 of which were offensive), an assist, 4 fouls, and 5 turnovers in 34:53 is hardly impressive, imo.

[byennie]

Maybe, but why try and trade with Toronto for 9 when Sacramento was actively shopping 8?  We would have needed to do a trade prior to that with Atlanta in order to get it done, most likely, but I think that it was definitely doable.  The problem, though, is that no one would have liked it, lol , but that's okay.

The point is we'd be insane to pay the price for #8 or #9, to get a guy that everyone had pegged as lasting at least into the 20s. Even if we loved Maker, staying at #16 would be the right move, or targeting him at #23. It's worth noting he hasn't actually played a single minute in a real game yet... let's not say he's worth #8 quite yet.

[Sketch5]

Mark Cuban's ignorance aside, has anyone else seen this step back three from Thon Maker? *facepalm*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0JZQ88y9Y4

It's interesting to see him (maybe) pan out after all, but why the facepalm? It's not like we had much chance to get him when MIL shocked everyone and took him at #10. For all we know Danny would have nabbed him at #16 or #23.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that if there was one team who would take him that early before the rumor on draft night was made public via Chad Ford, iirc, it would be Milwaukee, just given their track record with the Greek Freak , and I do believe that we could have gotten him, along with Poeltl the Turtle , but we would have had to commit to a full rebuild in order to do so, most likely, imo, which is not a popular view on this blog, and that's fine .  It's just frustrating seeing a 7'1 guy from high school have more skills than the guy we took at 3, imo.  Welp .

Would you not be disappointed if he turned into the Porzingis of this draft, in a way, because I think that a great deal of people would be, and with good reason, imo.

Except that high schooler is 23ish give or take a fake document. Plus no way was anyone taking him in the top 5. I was surprised he went at 10. I wouldn't have been surprised if DA took him at 16, but to trade up is hard some times if a team likes their player. I don't feel like we missed out. Just luck of the draft. But if Brown plays like he did last night, I think we will be okay.

[Beat LA]

Mark Cuban's ignorance aside, has anyone else seen this step back three from Thon Maker? *facepalm*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0JZQ88y9Y4

It's interesting to see him (maybe) pan out after all, but why the facepalm? It's not like we had much chance to get him when MIL shocked everyone and took him at #10. For all we know Danny would have nabbed him at #16 or #23.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that if there was one team who would take him that early before the rumor on draft night was made public via Chad Ford, iirc, it would be Milwaukee, just given their track record with the Greek Freak , and I do believe that we could have gotten him, along with Poeltl the Turtle , but we would have had to commit to a full rebuild in order to do so, most likely, imo, which is not a popular view on this blog, and that's fine .  It's just frustrating seeing a 7'1 guy from high school have more skills than the guy we took at 3, imo.  Welp .

Would you not be disappointed if he turned into the Porzingis of this draft, in a way, because I think that a great deal of people would be, and with good reason, imo.

Except that high schooler is 23ish give or take a fake document. Plus no way was anyone taking him in the top 5. I was surprised he went at 10. I wouldn't have been surprised if DA took him at 16, but to trade up is hard some times if a team likes their player. I don't feel like we missed out. Just luck of the draft. But if Brown plays like he did last night, I think we will be okay.

Oh I know, believe me.  However, many people wanted to trade with the Kings to get Chriss, iirc, and what Sacramento ultimately accepted from Phoenix for 8 was 13, 28, a 2020 second rounder, and the draft rights to Bogdan Bogdanovic, so my idea was to trade Crowder to the Hawks for 12 and maybe 21 if we could get it (as there was a rumor of them wanting to trade those picks to save money for free agency, iirc, even though that doesn't make sense to me given that the cap was going up, but whatever, lol), but at least 12, and then trade that pick with, let's say, Smart or Rozier, etc., maybe, although I'd personally trade Smart before Rozier, but that's just me, and take Maker at 8.  The Kings still would have gotten Georgios Papagiannis at 12 instead of 13, a guard for the future, I guess, in Smart, ahahaha , and 21, if necessary.  What do you think?

I'm not buying the age argument, btw, not when his doctor and the Australian authorities, I believe, have both stated that Maker is, in fact, 19.

Maybe, but why try and trade with Toronto for 9 when Sacramento was actively shopping 8?  We would have needed to do a trade prior to that with Atlanta in order to get it done, most likely, but I think that it was definitely doable.  The problem, though, is that no one would have liked it, lol , but that's okay.

The point is we'd be insane to pay the price for #8 or #9, to get a guy that everyone had pegged as lasting at least into the 20s. Even if we loved Maker, staying at #16 would be the right move, or targeting him at #23. It's worth noting he hasn't actually played a single minute in a real game yet... let's not say he's worth #8 quite yet.

I don't think that the price would have been anywhere near too steep for 8, but my question is about your comment on how 'everyone' had him lasting into the 20s.  Who constitutes 'everyone'?  Are we talking Chad Ford, Jay Bilas, DraftExpress, NBADraft.net, or someone/something else?

[mctyson]

Another poor outing for Bender, tonight, although, in fairness, Maker also struggled during the last two games when they moved him from center to the 4 spot, but still, Bender's line of 10 points on 3/13 fg, 2/9 on threes, and 2/2 from the line, 9 rebounds (3 of which were offensive), an assist, 4 fouls, and 5 turnovers in 34:53 is hardly impressive, imo.

As much as some people here didn't like the Brown pick, they would have been apesh*t at Bender.

[A Future of Stevens]

Mark Cuban's ignorance aside, has anyone else seen this step back three from Thon Maker? *facepalm*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0JZQ88y9Y4

It's interesting to see him (maybe) pan out after all, but why the facepalm? It's not like we had much chance to get him when MIL shocked everyone and took him at #10. For all we know Danny would have nabbed him at #16 or #23.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought that if there was one team who would take him that early before the rumor on draft night was made public via Chad Ford, iirc, it would be Milwaukee, just given their track record with the Greek Freak , and I do believe that we could have gotten him, along with Poeltl the Turtle , but we would have had to commit to a full rebuild in order to do so, most likely, imo, which is not a popular view on this blog, and that's fine .  It's just frustrating seeing a 7'1 guy from high school have more skills than the guy we took at 3, imo.  Welp .

Would you not be disappointed if he turned into the Porzingis of this draft, in a way, because I think that a great deal of people would be, and with good reason, imo.

Except that high schooler is 23ish give or take a fake document. Plus no way was anyone taking him in the top 5. I was surprised he went at 10. I wouldn't have been surprised if DA took him at 16, but to trade up is hard some times if a team likes their player. I don't feel like we missed out. Just luck of the draft. But if Brown plays like he did last night, I think we will be okay.

Oh I know, believe me.  However, many people wanted to trade with the Kings to get Chriss, iirc, and what Sacramento ultimately accepted from Phoenix for 8 was 13, 28, a 2020 second rounder, and the draft rights to Bogdan Bogdanovic, so my idea was to trade Crowder to the Hawks for 12 and maybe 21 if we could get it (as there was a rumor of them wanting to trade those picks to save money for free agency, iirc, even though that doesn't make sense to me given that the cap was going up, but whatever, lol), but at least 12, and then trade that pick with, let's say, Smart or Rozier, etc., maybe, although I'd personally trade Smart before Rozier, but that's just me, and take Maker at 8.  The Kings still would have gotten Georgios Papagiannis at 12 instead of 13, a guard for the future, I guess, in Smart, ahahaha , and 21, if necessary.  What do you think?

I'm not buying the age argument, btw, not when his doctor and the Australian authorities, I believe, have both stated that Maker is, in fact, 19.

So you would have the celtics trade crowder, and smart to move up to get maker at 8, when he was widely thought to be on the board between 16 and mid 20s, even some as late as the second round?

Im all for the youth movement if the price is right but dang man.

[Beat LA]

Another poor outing for Bender, tonight, although, in fairness, Maker also struggled during the last two games when they moved him from center to the 4 spot, but still, Bender's line of 10 points on 3/13 fg, 2/9 on threes, and 2/2 from the line, 9 rebounds (3 of which were offensive), an assist, 4 fouls, and 5 turnovers in 34:53 is hardly impressive, imo.

As much as some people here didn't like the Brown pick, they would have been apesh*t at Bender.

Lol, yeah.  I didn't watch the game though, so I can't comment as to how he looked, but when we played Phoenix, I honestly didn't even know that he was on the court most of the time, honestly . He just didn't impress me, but to each his own, and it's summer league, anyway, but his dribbling was about as bad as Brown's, lol.

[Beat LA]

So you would have the celtics trade crowder, and smart to move up to get maker at 8, when he was widely thought to be on the board between 16 and mid 20s, even some as late as the second round?

Im all for the youth movement if the price is right but dang man.

Keep in mind that I'm considered to be a moron on here, lol, but yeah, except that I wouldn't have stopped there.  I know that I've stated this ad nauseam, so I apologize for repeating myself, but in addition to the Maker deal, I think that we should have traded IT and KO to New Orleans for 6 to take Poeltl, as the Pelicans ultimately lost Gordon and Anderson in free agency, take Dunn at 3, Levert at 16, etc., and now we've got the foundation in place, hopefully, for a great team moving forward.  I realize that it does sound extreme, and in a way, I suppose that it is, but you only have to nail it once in terms of picks to be set for the next 8-10 years, or perhaps even longer, and this draft, imo, offered the best opportunity to hit the reset button and completely remake the team in one fell swoop, pretty much, with the finishing touches coming next year, but it didn't happen and we are where we are .

[byennie]

So you would have the celtics trade crowder, and smart to move up to get maker at 8, when he was widely thought to be on the board between 16 and mid 20s, even some as late as the second round?

Im all for the youth movement if the price is right but dang man.

Keep in mind that I'm considered to be a moron on here, lol, but yeah, except that I wouldn't have stopped there.  I know that I've stated this ad nauseam, so I apologize for repeating myself, but in addition to the Maker deal, I think that we should have traded IT and KO to New Orleans for 6 to take Poeltl, as the Pelicans ultimately lost Gordon and Anderson in free agency, take Dunn at 3, Levert at 16, etc., and now we've got the foundation in place, hopefully, for a great team moving forward.  I realize that it does sound extreme, and in a way, I suppose that it is, but you only have to nail it once in terms of picks to be set for the next 8-10 years, or perhaps even longer, and this draft, imo, offered the best opportunity to hit the reset button and completely remake the team in one fell swoop, pretty much, with the finishing touches coming next year, but it didn't happen and we are where we are .

Hey you're entitled to any opinion and you certainly "own" it. You wanna move IT, Smart, Crowder and KO for Thon Maker and Poeltl? I mean, you'll definitely get a reset. We'd be one of the 5 worst teams next year for sure. The problem is at that point we could sign a superstar and still not get back to 48 wins.

[Beat LA]

So you would have the celtics trade crowder, and smart to move up to get maker at 8, when he was widely thought to be on the board between 16 and mid 20s, even some as late as the second round?

Im all for the youth movement if the price is right but dang man.

Keep in mind that I'm considered to be a moron on here, lol, but yeah, except that I wouldn't have stopped there.  I know that I've stated this ad nauseam, so I apologize for repeating myself, but in addition to the Maker deal, I think that we should have traded IT and KO to New Orleans for 6 to take Poeltl, as the Pelicans ultimately lost Gordon and Anderson in free agency, take Dunn at 3, Levert at 16, etc., and now we've got the foundation in place, hopefully, for a great team moving forward.  I realize that it does sound extreme, and in a way, I suppose that it is, but you only have to nail it once in terms of picks to be set for the next 8-10 years, or perhaps even longer, and this draft, imo, offered the best opportunity to hit the reset button and completely remake the team in one fell swoop, pretty much, with the finishing touches coming next year, but it didn't happen and we are where we are .

Hey you're entitled to any opinion and you certainly "own" it. You wanna move IT, Smart, Crowder and KO for Thon Maker and Poeltl? I mean, you'll definitely get a reset. We'd be one of the 5 worst teams next year for sure. The problem is at that point we could sign a superstar and still not get back to 48 wins.

You know it, girl (sarcasm), lol . 

All joking aside, wouldn't our defense still be good, and potentially even better, with Dunn instead of IT, and having two shotblockers in Maker and Poeltl as opposed to guys like Sully, KO, Jerenko, and Zeller (Amir is okay, but he's brittle, unfortunately )?  Plus, Levert is an excellent two way player, as well.

I just think that the payoff would be substantially better down the road than what we have right now .

[LarBrd33]

Looking at just basic stats (points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks ... subtract turnovers and missed shots), Rozier has an EFF of 21.67 after 6 Summer-League games.  He's averaging 20 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.5 steals with 53% shooting  That's 6th amongst all players.  Pretty encouraging.

#1 has been Kyle Anderson through 5 games (24.60 EFF).  Kris Dunn is 2nd with only 2 games (23 EFF).  D'angelo Russell is 3rd.

Jaylen Brown's rough shooting has him at 60th (13.0 EFF), but the good news is he's actually above Ben Simmons (12.60 through 5 games).  Brown's last two games have been really good.

I previously looked at all players since 2008.  Top player since 2008 was Anthony Randolph who had an EFF of 30.0 through 4 games in 2009.  He was incredible.  Averaged 26.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 2.3 steals, 3 blocks with 61% shooting.

Rozier's Summer league (so far) would put him 26th amongst all players since 2008.  Again, pretty encouraging.

Marcus Smart had a 13.2EFF in 2014 and a 14.2EFF in 2015. 

I published the (All Summer League Players since 2008) results last year: ( http://publish.smartsheet.com/f272f19cae1c43a9ae617c06be77e20e ) .  I can probably update it when Summer League concludes to include all performances from this year. 

[LarBrd33]

Looking at just basic stats (points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks ... subtract turnovers and missed shots), Rozier has an EFF of 21.67 after 6 Summer-League games.  He's averaging 20 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 1.5 steals with 53% shooting  That's 6th amongst all players.  Pretty encouraging.

#1 has been Kyle Anderson through 5 games (24.60 EFF).  Kris Dunn is 2nd with only 2 games (23 EFF).  D'angelo Russell is 3rd.

Jaylen Brown's rough shooting has him at 60th (13.0 EFF), but the good news is he's actually above Ben Simmons (12.60 through 5 games).  Brown's last two games have been really good.

I previously looked at all players since 2008.  Top player since 2008 was Anthony Randolph who had an EFF of 30.0 through 4 games in 2009.  He was incredible.  Averaged 26.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 2.3 steals, 3 blocks with 61% shooting.

Rozier's Summer league (so far) would put him 26th amongst all players since 2008.  Again, pretty encouraging.

Marcus Smart had a 13.2EFF in 2014 and a 14.2EFF in 2015. 

I published the (All Summer League Players since 2008) results last year: ( http://publish.smartsheet.com/f272f19cae1c43a9ae617c06be77e20e ) .  I can probably update it when Summer League concludes to include all performances from this year.

Oh if folks are curious, the rankings of 2016 draftees are: 

#1 Kris Dunn
#2 Tyler Ulis
#3 Juan Hernangomez
#4 Cheick Diallo
#5 Jokob Poeltl
#6 Taurean Prince
#7 Thon Maker
#8 Ivica Zubak
#9 Michael Gbinije
#10 Georges Niang
#11 Kay Felder,
#12 Brice Johnson
#13 Deandre Bembry
#14 Jaylen Brown
#15 Ben Simmons
#16 Petr Cornelie
#17 Buddy Hield
#18 Guerschon Yabusele
#19 Wade Baldwin
#20 Jamal Murray

I can probably do a more in-depth look at Summer League stats in context once this concludes.  If anyone is interested, remind me when the league ends.

[A Future of Stevens]

How far down is ingram? Lol

[Celtics4ever]

#1 Kris Dunn
#2 Tyler Ulis
#3 Juan Hernangomez
#4 Cheick Diallo
#5 Jokob Poeltl
#6 Taurean Prince
#7 Thon Maker
#8 Ivica Zubak
#9 Michael Gbinije
#10 Georges Niang
#11 Kay Felder,
#12 Brice Johnson
#13 Deandre Bembry
#14 Jaylen Brown
#15 Ben Simmons
#16 Petr Cornelie
#17 Buddy Hield
#18 Guerschon Yabusele
#19 Wade Baldwin
#20 Jamal Murray

Nader outplayed some of these guys in all honesty.  Simmons also outplayed Diallo in terms of stats.  Not saying he is better than these guys but he outplayed them so far.   It won't last most likely.

http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2016/statistics/las_vegas/