Critical Mistake if C's do not take Bender....

[jdz101]

Bender is too far away from helping Boston .   

Need players who can play NOW

This is exactly what the detractors were saying about Porzingis last year...  Bender has quicker feet and is a much better ball handler already.  Through summer league and training camp he will likely be able to help from the jump starting next year in at minimum a Jerebko role.

For Denver, thank God.

Just LOL at Denver getting him.  If the C's don't take him Phoenix will, or Minnesota or New Orleans.  Bender next to Towns or Davis is near perfect.

Can you use your crystal ball to tell me what the lottery numbers will be next week? In need of the extra cash.

Noone has any clue what Bender will be like at NBA level.

[The Oracle]

I would definitely take Bender #3 if it were me. But then again, Ainge has surely done his research and has more information than any of us do, especially about Bender and his thin statistical slice. If Ainge passes on him, I won't second guess.

This is exactly the way I look at it.  I have never said Ainge should definitively draft Bender because the truth is we just don't have enough info.  He looks every bit the part to me though from here with an incomplete amount of info.  If Danny trades down or targets Chriss or Lab. I wouldn't be remotely shocked as I like both of them also.  Absolutely love Labissiere's potential but once again a limited amount of info. because of how he was used at Kentucky being drastically different from what his role in the NBA will be. 

[EvilEmpire]

If the Celtics take Dunn I think DA thinks that no one in tier 2 is a surething and he wants to win the draft via trade.  Seems like a plethora of teams are short the PG position and we are Ace high in PGs.

[RockinRyA]

Bender is too far away from helping Boston .   

Need players who can play NOW

This is exactly what the detractors were saying about Porzingis last year...  Bender has quicker feet and is a much better ball handler already.  Through summer league and training camp he will likely be able to help from the jump starting next year in at minimum a Jerebko role.

For Denver, thank God.

Just LOL at Denver getting him.  If the C's don't take him Phoenix will, or Minnesota or New Orleans.  Bender next to Towns or Davis is near perfect.

Its CoachBo, no use telling him those things because he won't believe them.

[chiken Green]

I want buddy H..  But would understand if we took the kid that the perceived had the highest upside in the Draft.. Its surely a gamble but I believe we have the right coach and Facility in place.

Who cares what he did when he was 18 - honestly doesn't matter what he does at 19 either .. its when he hits 20 and 21 when It should start to matter to us..  IF the Kid can be molded then Fire away.. 
Jimmy Butler, the guy folks are willing to give up the farm for Averaged under 3 points in his first year. The next he jumped to a whopping 9 points.  Crowder who is now the heart and soul of our team after 3 years has a career average of still only 8.  Heck Paul George started his 1st year off Dropping 8 points.. Dirk the 1st ballot HOF - came in 17 years ago Dropping 8..
But all these guys grew into real players over the course of time... what do they have in Common? They were all Gym Rats..
I still want Buddy but its crazy to me to throw shade at an 18yr  kid who'se not getting a ton of Burn playing professional basketball.. Kobe, Lebron and Garnett are all Legends who were playing against other kids before they Joined the associations.. 

Im not saying This guy will be a HOF - but I am certainly not saying he cant be because he didn't look like it at 18.

[The Oracle]

I want buddy H..  But would understand if we took the kid that the perceived had the highest upside in the Draft.. Its surely a gamble but I believe we have the right coach and Facility in place.

Who cares what he did when he was 18 - honestly doesn't matter what he does at 19 either .. its when he hits 20 and 21 when It should start to matter to us..  IF the Kid can be molded then Fire away.. 
Jimmy Butler, the guy folks are willing to give up the farm for Averaged under 3 points in his first year. The next he jumped to a whopping 9 points.  Crowder who is now the heart and soul of our team after 3 years has a career average of still only 8.  Heck Paul George started his 1st year off Dropping 8 points.. Dirk the 1st ballot HOF - came in 17 years ago Dropping 8..
But all these guys grew into real players over the course of time... what do they have in Common? They were all Gym Rats..
I still want Buddy but its crazy to me to throw shade at an 18yr  kid who'se not getting a ton of Burn playing professional basketball.. Kobe, Lebron and Garnett are all Legends who were playing against other kids before they Joined the associations.. 

Im not saying This guy will be a HOF - but I am certainly not saying he cant be because he didn't look like it at 18.

I like Buddy and think he could be the next J.J. Redick.  The thing is you can always find solid SG's and PG's.  It's very tough to find the right bigs.  Bender has really quick feet and as I see it this is vital to have from your PF's going forward.  You just don't see 7'1 dudes that can defend the entire floor like that.  Pair that with his ball handling skills and shooting ability.  If everything checks out (and I will trust Danny on this) you draft the unicorn.  Bigs hold more value than smalls and right now there is little carrying more value than 2 way stretch bigs.

[SparzWizard]

Critical mistake if the C's do take Bender.

I rather get Al Horford or Whiteside, proven veteran talents and can contribute right away!

[chiken Green]

I want buddy H..  But would understand if we took the kid that the perceived had the highest upside in the Draft.. Its surely a gamble but I believe we have the right coach and Facility in place.

Who cares what he did when he was 18 - honestly doesn't matter what he does at 19 either .. its when he hits 20 and 21 when It should start to matter to us..  IF the Kid can be molded then Fire away.. 
Jimmy Butler, the guy folks are willing to give up the farm for Averaged under 3 points in his first year. The next he jumped to a whopping 9 points.  Crowder who is now the heart and soul of our team after 3 years has a career average of still only 8.  Heck Paul George started his 1st year off Dropping 8 points.. Dirk the 1st ballot HOF - came in 17 years ago Dropping 8..
But all these guys grew into real players over the course of time... what do they have in Common? They were all Gym Rats..
I still want Buddy but its crazy to me to throw shade at an 18yr  kid who'se not getting a ton of Burn playing professional basketball.. Kobe, Lebron and Garnett are all Legends who were playing against other kids before they Joined the associations.. 

Im not saying This guy will be a HOF - but I am certainly not saying he cant be because he didn't look like it at 18.

I like Buddy and think he could be the next J.J. Redick.  The thing is you can always find solid SG's and PG's.  It's very tough to find the right bigs.  Bender has really quick feet and as I see it this is vital to have from your PF's going forward.  You just don't see 7'1 dudes that can defend the entire floor like that.  Pair that with his ball handling skills and shooting ability.  If everything checks out (and I will trust Danny on this) you draft the unicorn.  Bigs hold more value than smalls and right now there is little carrying more value than 2 way stretch bigs.

I do agree with you about the big, especially one with Quick feet in today's Space game.. I feel that Bender would be perfect.. I think he can be special on both sides of the floor... As for Buddy, I am probably dead wrong on this but I see something more than JJ and KK..  I Can totally understand Why Kobe has taken the Guy under his wing.. I just think he has the It factor..  But again, I could be totally wrong..

[D Dub]

I want buddy H..  But would understand if we took the kid that the perceived had the highest upside in the Draft.. Its surely a gamble but I believe we have the right coach and Facility in place.

Who cares what he did when he was 18 - honestly doesn't matter what he does at 19 either .. its when he hits 20 and 21 when It should start to matter to us..  IF the Kid can be molded then Fire away.. 
Jimmy Butler, the guy folks are willing to give up the farm for Averaged under 3 points in his first year. The next he jumped to a whopping 9 points.  Crowder who is now the heart and soul of our team after 3 years has a career average of still only 8.  Heck Paul George started his 1st year off Dropping 8 points.. Dirk the 1st ballot HOF - came in 17 years ago Dropping 8..
But all these guys grew into real players over the course of time... what do they have in Common? They were all Gym Rats..
I still want Buddy but its crazy to me to throw shade at an 18yr  kid who'se not getting a ton of Burn playing professional basketball.. Kobe, Lebron and Garnett are all Legends who were playing against other kids before they Joined the associations.. 

Im not saying This guy will be a HOF - but I am certainly not saying he cant be because he didn't look like it at 18.

I like Buddy and think he could be the next J.J. Redick.  The thing is you can always find solid SG's and PG's.  It's very tough to find the right bigs.  Bender has really quick feet and as I see it this is vital to have from your PF's going forward.  You just don't see 7'1 dudes that can defend the entire floor like that.  Pair that with his ball handling skills and shooting ability.  If everything checks out (and I will trust Danny on this) you draft the unicorn.  Bigs hold more value than smalls and right now there is little carrying more value than 2 way stretch bigs.

I do agree with you about the big, especially one with Quick feet in today's Space game.. I feel that Bender would be perfect.. I think he can be special on both sides of the floor... As for Buddy, I am probably dead wrong on this but I see something more than JJ and KK..  I Can totally understand Why Kobe has taken the Guy under his wing.. I just think he has the It factor..  But again, I could be totally wrong..

100% agree on Buddy.   He's the best player right now in this draft.   
Everyone else is a project, with some unknown ceiling. 

Not only that, but he's fit right into our team, that desperately needs a knock down shooter.   At 6'5 with long arms, I'm sure he'll do just fine in brads switch-heavy defense. 

I'm won't be pleased if we draft Dunn or Murray and are forced to trade IT or Smart to make room for a new project.   We can't afford to take steps back, not now when the roster is 80% assembled for a title run.   Chemistry is important to team building too.   We can't expect to flip 1/2 our core and pick up right where we left off. 

[crimson_stallion]

I want buddy H..  But would understand if we took the kid that the perceived had the highest upside in the Draft.. Its surely a gamble but I believe we have the right coach and Facility in place.

Who cares what he did when he was 18 - honestly doesn't matter what he does at 19 either .. its when he hits 20 and 21 when It should start to matter to us..  IF the Kid can be molded then Fire away.. 
Jimmy Butler, the guy folks are willing to give up the farm for Averaged under 3 points in his first year. The next he jumped to a whopping 9 points.  Crowder who is now the heart and soul of our team after 3 years has a career average of still only 8.  Heck Paul George started his 1st year off Dropping 8 points.. Dirk the 1st ballot HOF - came in 17 years ago Dropping 8..
But all these guys grew into real players over the course of time... what do they have in Common? They were all Gym Rats..
I still want Buddy but its crazy to me to throw shade at an 18yr  kid who'se not getting a ton of Burn playing professional basketball.. Kobe, Lebron and Garnett are all Legends who were playing against other kids before they Joined the associations.. 

Im not saying This guy will be a HOF - but I am certainly not saying he cant be because he didn't look like it at 18.

I like Buddy and think he could be the next J.J. Redick.  The thing is you can always find solid SG's and PG's.  It's very tough to find the right bigs.  Bender has really quick feet and as I see it this is vital to have from your PF's going forward.  You just don't see 7'1 dudes that can defend the entire floor like that.  Pair that with his ball handling skills and shooting ability.  If everything checks out (and I will trust Danny on this) you draft the unicorn.  Bigs hold more value than smalls and right now there is little carrying more value than 2 way stretch bigs.

I do agree with you about the big, especially one with Quick feet in today's Space game.. I feel that Bender would be perfect.. I think he can be special on both sides of the floor... As for Buddy, I am probably dead wrong on this but I see something more than JJ and KK..  I Can totally understand Why Kobe has taken the Guy under his wing.. I just think he has the It factor..  But again, I could be totally wrong..

100% agree on Buddy.   He's the best player right now in this draft.   
Everyone else is a project, with some unknown ceiling. 

Not only that, but he's fit right into our team, that desperately needs a knock down shooter.   At 6'5 with long arms, I'm sure he'll do just fine in brads switch-heavy defense. 

I'm won't be pleased if we draft Dunn or Murray and are forced to trade IT or Smart to make room for a new project.   We can't afford to take steps back, not now when the roster is 80% assembled for a title run.   Chemistry is important to team building too.   We can't expect to flip 1/2 our core and pick up right where we left off.

I agree about Hield as well.  Honestly I think he is going to be one hell of a scorer at the NBA level.  Not just a shooter, but a straight-out scorer. 

My only real concern is what else is he going to be able to do in addition to scoring?  His dribbling and passing skills aren't very advanced.  Defensively he certainly has potential, but it's no sure thing.  He's a solid rebounder. 

That leaves me thinking - what is more valuable in the NBA?  A guard who can score at an elite level but is only average at everything else...or a guard who can score, pass, dribble and defend all at a high level? 

That's where I start to think Dunn might be a more sure-fire star then Hield.  Though I definitely am very high on Hield regardless.

[crimson_stallion]

I want buddy H..  But would understand if we took the kid that the perceived had the highest upside in the Draft.. Its surely a gamble but I believe we have the right coach and Facility in place.

Who cares what he did when he was 18 - honestly doesn't matter what he does at 19 either .. its when he hits 20 and 21 when It should start to matter to us..  IF the Kid can be molded then Fire away.. 
Jimmy Butler, the guy folks are willing to give up the farm for Averaged under 3 points in his first year. The next he jumped to a whopping 9 points.  Crowder who is now the heart and soul of our team after 3 years has a career average of still only 8.  Heck Paul George started his 1st year off Dropping 8 points.. Dirk the 1st ballot HOF - came in 17 years ago Dropping 8..
But all these guys grew into real players over the course of time... what do they have in Common? They were all Gym Rats..
I still want Buddy but its crazy to me to throw shade at an 18yr  kid who'se not getting a ton of Burn playing professional basketball.. Kobe, Lebron and Garnett are all Legends who were playing against other kids before they Joined the associations.. 

Im not saying This guy will be a HOF - but I am certainly not saying he cant be because he didn't look like it at 18.

I like Buddy and think he could be the next J.J. Redick.  The thing is you can always find solid SG's and PG's.  It's very tough to find the right bigs.  Bender has really quick feet and as I see it this is vital to have from your PF's going forward.  You just don't see 7'1 dudes that can defend the entire floor like that.  Pair that with his ball handling skills and shooting ability.  If everything checks out (and I will trust Danny on this) you draft the unicorn.  Bigs hold more value than smalls and right now there is little carrying more value than 2 way stretch bigs.

I just think that everything about Bender is being overrated.

I think his quickness is overrated, I think his ball handling and passing are overrated, I think his shooting is overrated.

I think he's above average at all those things, but not elite at any of them. I don't think his passing, shooting and ball handling skills are any better then Kelly Olynyk, for example.

His mobility is very good for a seven footer no doubt, but he's doesn't run the floor like a guard the way Anthony Davis (or a young KG) does.

His rebounding is not (IMHO) any better then Olynyk's, nor is his post game.

Basically Bender is Kelly Olynyk with longer arms, quicker feet and far less strength - that's pretty much the bottom line. 

I think he could be a solid starting caliber big, but I don't think he'll ever be a star (let alone a supeestar) and I think there's a pretty high risk that he never even becomes starting caliber - we just don't know because of lack of reps against NBA caliber prospects.  He might get absolutely chewed apart by the bigger, stronger and more skilled NBA bigs, who knows. 

The gamble is too high.

[D Dub]

I want buddy H..  But would understand if we took the kid that the perceived had the highest upside in the Draft.. Its surely a gamble but I believe we have the right coach and Facility in place.

Who cares what he did when he was 18 - honestly doesn't matter what he does at 19 either .. its when he hits 20 and 21 when It should start to matter to us..  IF the Kid can be molded then Fire away.. 
Jimmy Butler, the guy folks are willing to give up the farm for Averaged under 3 points in his first year. The next he jumped to a whopping 9 points.  Crowder who is now the heart and soul of our team after 3 years has a career average of still only 8.  Heck Paul George started his 1st year off Dropping 8 points.. Dirk the 1st ballot HOF - came in 17 years ago Dropping 8..
But all these guys grew into real players over the course of time... what do they have in Common? They were all Gym Rats..
I still want Buddy but its crazy to me to throw shade at an 18yr  kid who'se not getting a ton of Burn playing professional basketball.. Kobe, Lebron and Garnett are all Legends who were playing against other kids before they Joined the associations.. 

Im not saying This guy will be a HOF - but I am certainly not saying he cant be because he didn't look like it at 18.

I like Buddy and think he could be the next J.J. Redick.  The thing is you can always find solid SG's and PG's.  It's very tough to find the right bigs.  Bender has really quick feet and as I see it this is vital to have from your PF's going forward.  You just don't see 7'1 dudes that can defend the entire floor like that.  Pair that with his ball handling skills and shooting ability.  If everything checks out (and I will trust Danny on this) you draft the unicorn.  Bigs hold more value than smalls and right now there is little carrying more value than 2 way stretch bigs.

I do agree with you about the big, especially one with Quick feet in today's Space game.. I feel that Bender would be perfect.. I think he can be special on both sides of the floor... As for Buddy, I am probably dead wrong on this but I see something more than JJ and KK..  I Can totally understand Why Kobe has taken the Guy under his wing.. I just think he has the It factor..  But again, I could be totally wrong..

100% agree on Buddy.   He's the best player right now in this draft.   
Everyone else is a project, with some unknown ceiling. 

Not only that, but he's fit right into our team, that desperately needs a knock down shooter.   At 6'5 with long arms, I'm sure he'll do just fine in brads switch-heavy defense. 

I'm won't be pleased if we draft Dunn or Murray and are forced to trade IT or Smart to make room for a new project.   We can't afford to take steps back, not now when the roster is 80% assembled for a title run.   Chemistry is important to team building too.   We can't expect to flip 1/2 our core and pick up right where we left off.

I agree about Hield as well.  Honestly I think he is going to be one hell of a scorer at the NBA level.  Not just a shooter, but a straight-out scorer. 

My only real concern is what else is he going to be able to do in addition to scoring?  His dribbling and passing skills aren't very advanced.  Defensively he certainly has potential, but it's no sure thing.  He's a solid rebounder. 

That leaves me thinking - what is more valuable in the NBA?  A guard who can score at an elite level but is only average at everything else...or a guard who can score, pass, dribble and defend all at a high level? 

That's where I start to think Dunn might be a more sure-fire star then Hield.  Though I definitely am very high on Hield regardless.

And this is where I struggle to analyze what these guys have done in college.   As in, is a high level 'jack of all trades' in college comparible to what we consider 'high level' in the pros?

So many drafts have these pg prospects like Dunn.   But very few actually ascend to all star status.   Wall, Teague, Lillard -- all high level points but still fringe all stars. 

But an elite shooter, that's a skill most NBA players don't really have.  I feel the ceiling of this type of player should be considered higher.   Especially considering what we've seen Curry & Klay grow into after being selected late in the lotto.   Draft after draft though we fall in love with athleticism assuming that they can learn to shoot later.  I'd rather have the better shooter and teach him team defense.   Everyone in the NBA is an athlete, but it truly is a make or miss league. 

[TheSundanceKid]

It's come down to Dunn or Bender it seems and the choice is quite clear. Are we making a trade or are we slowing the rebuild?

Dunn is more of a sure thing and his ceiling isn't much lower but most importantly he is a piece that several of our trade targets desire. If we pick him it is because we are confident we can get a deal done either on draft night or later into the summer.

Bender is the long term pick. Perfect mould for Stevens and probably the most versatile player aside from Simmons. Picking him indicates that we are happy to build internally and be patient. I think DA knows this is the better path if a trade isn't happening on Thursday but he desperately wants one. I've always had Bender at the top of my board so I'm ready to take him. If there is a good trade then do that but otherwise just pick Bender and move on

[OldSchoolDude]

[/quote]

I just think that everything about Bender is being overrated.

I think his quickness is overrated, I think his ball handling and passing are overrated, I think his shooting is overrated.

I think he's above average at all those things, but not elite at any of them. I don't think his passing, shooting and ball handling skills are any better then Kelly Olynyk, for example.

His mobility is very good for a seven footer no doubt, but he's doesn't run the floor like a guard the way Anthony Davis (or a young KG) does.

His rebounding is not (IMHO) any better then Olynyk's, nor is his post game.

Basically Bender is Kelly Olynyk with longer arms, quicker feet and far less strength - that's pretty much the bottom line. 

I think he could be a solid starting caliber big, but I don't think he'll ever be a star (let alone a supeestar) and I think there's a pretty high risk that he never even becomes starting caliber - we just don't know because of lack of reps against NBA caliber prospects.  He might get absolutely chewed apart by the bigger, stronger and more skilled NBA bigs, who knows. 

The gamble is too high.
[/quote]

it sounds like you think 18 year old bender is the same player as 22 year old Olynyk. But really Olynyk is better at 22 then he was at 18 as are every nba player to some degree. The growth varies from player to player, but everyone is better at 22 then at 18.  So, if Bender is Olynyk now at 18, when he's 22 he should be a beast.  You say you don't want him but you really argue to draft him.  I'm sure you'll gladly give up the # 3 for Buttler but if we picked him when he came out you would have screamed outrage.   Talent needs to develop more often than not.  This board is full of people wanting to trade our picks and/or developing talent for payers we could have drafted but didn't because the team didn't think they would develop the way they did.  It's time to get on the front end of the story and develop a player.   We have a low end play off roster and the money for two max contracts.  We can afford a project at 3 and not miss a beat. 

pg: IT/Rozier
sg:Bradley/Smart/Huner/draft pick
sf: Crowder/ Turner or pick #16 or a trade up with #16 & 23
pf: Max FA/Bender/Mickey
C: MaxFA/KO/draft pick

[biggs]

There's going to be some backlash no matter what the Celtics do. I feel that if they take Bender, that pick will get the most backlash out of all the prospects.

If we had the #1 in 2003 and taken Lebron, some people would have been calling for Danny's head.  Sometimes you just have to ignore people

Huh? Smh. What people? On this site? What, one of the ten members in 03'?