Who has less Leverage?

[guava_wrench]

If other teams want Dunn, then Danny has most of the leverage.  If other teams want Okafor, then Philly has most of the leverage.

Very true.

The situation where Philly would have a leverage problem is if only a single team has interest and Philly feels they really need to unload a player such that low value is better than keeping the player. As soon as a second team enters negotiations, the two buyers are competing with each other, driving up prices.

[BitterJim]

So you're saying Philly has the edge? CBlog will be shocked.

I'm not saying anything.  I'm asking who you think has less leverage?

The common narrative is that Philly has no leverage.  Which is funny, because we've been hearing for months about how Boston, due to their overabundance of picks they have no room for, has no leverage.  And if they draft another guard, you're now looking at Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Hunter, Young and Dunn all either key players or key investments that need minutes.

We need to trade a guard or 2.   Philly needs to trade a big or 2.

If we take and keep Dunn, the other three guys are as good as gone.  They couldn't get minutes over Turner, they're definitely not getting minutes over a superior prospect/player that Danny may want to showcase

[LarBrd33]

So you're saying Philly has the edge? CBlog will be shocked.

I'm not saying anything.  I'm asking who you think has less leverage?

The common narrative is that Philly has no leverage.  Which is funny, because we've been hearing for months about how Boston, due to their overabundance of picks they have no room for, has no leverage.  And if they draft another guard, you're now looking at Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Hunter, Young and Dunn all either key players or key investments that need minutes.

We need to trade a guard or 2.   Philly needs to trade a big or 2.

If we take and keep Dunn, the other three guys are as good as gone.

That's fine, but kind of depressing that we wasted three first round picks on three guys that will amount to nothing for the Celtics.  I actually think one of two of them might actually have some talent.  They show signs in D-League.  We simply don't have minutes to even develop them or see what they can do.

And in that scenario, you're still talking about having Thomas/Bradley start with Smart and Dunn splitting back-up minutes.  That's a log jam.  You're either stunting Dunn's trade value by limiting his minutes to under 20, or you're stunting Smart's trade value by limiting his minutes to under 20.... or both.

[Donoghus]

Philly.  Everyone knows they have to move one of their big men.  Most likely sooner rather than later.   

No one is holding a gun to Boston's head to HAVE to draft a guard.    I'm also not entirely sold that "there's immediate pressure to improve" on Boston's end.  Pressure from who?  A handfull of bloggers?

So you think that a different team with less bigs trying to trade Okafor could get more value? Perhaps.

It is also possible that these guys just aren't liked enough by other teams to demand high prices. Tepid interest is tepid interest.

It wouldn't surprise me.  But you also have to factor in that Okafor has some warts no matter what which will sour interest on him.   

Embiid's not going anywhere.  So that leaves Noel & Okafor.  Are you going to keep them both if Embiid actually plays?  Risk losing Noel for nothing down the road? Other teams know this.

Celtics do have a glut of guards but they haven't drafted another G yet.  Last year showed they could make due with what they had there if need be. No one is making them draft another guard to force themselves into a move.

[saltlover]

It really depends how good Philly thinks Dunn is.  If Philly thinks that Dunn is better than any PG in next year's draft class, then they're rather low on leverage.  That team needs a PG.  It also depends how ready Philly thinks Simmons is to run an NBA offense.  He's got the skills to do so, but it's questionable whether he has the make-up.  If they go that route, they really need to trade some bigs for shooters.  A lineup with Simmons and two of Noel, Okafor, and Embiid has zero spacing.  That could be some very ugly offense.

With the Celtics, is it better if they get a big instead of a guard? Yes.  But if they draft Dunn, they can plug him into Evan Turner's role of running the offense of the second unit, and no more than half the cap cost.  That lets them pursue major frontcourt free agents, and also makes players such as Terry Rozier expendable.  Yes, the Celtics have a lot of guard-type players, but it's easier to play with a lot of them on the court than it is to play with that many bigs.

Unless the 76ers are not really impressed with Dunn after all, I think they have less leverage, because they need him more.  Celtics can use Dunn just fine and shift different resources to finding a frontcourt players.  The 76ers need to trade their bigs to someone for backcourt help, Celtics or otherwise.

[jpotter33]

If other teams want Dunn, then Danny has most of the leverage.  If other teams want Okafor, then Philly has most of the leverage.

Considering that it's widely acknowledged Okafor, warts and all, is a superior prospect to Dunn and every other prospect available at #3 - you might need to give Philly the nod with that logic.

What other teams are clamoring for Okafor?? Go ahead - I'll wait. I don't even think he's been linked to any team outside of Boston. Noel, on the other hand, is a different story.

[CelticSooner]

If other teams want Dunn, then Danny has most of the leverage.  If other teams want Okafor, then Philly has most of the leverage.

Considering that it's widely acknowledged Okafor, warts and all, is a superior prospect to Dunn and every other prospect available at #3 - you might need to give Philly the nod with that logic.

I don't think Okafor has as much value as you seem to think he does. If the C's draft Dunn they don't have to trade him. They could always choose to keep him and trade someone else on the roster. If Philly wants Dunn that bad the C's have the leverage because they are ahead over everyone else in the draft order.

[BitterJim]

So you're saying Philly has the edge? CBlog will be shocked.

I'm not saying anything.  I'm asking who you think has less leverage?

The common narrative is that Philly has no leverage.  Which is funny, because we've been hearing for months about how Boston, due to their overabundance of picks they have no room for, has no leverage.  And if they draft another guard, you're now looking at Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Hunter, Young and Dunn all either key players or key investments that need minutes.

We need to trade a guard or 2.   Philly needs to trade a big or 2.

If we take and keep Dunn, the other three guys are as good as gone.

That's fine, but kind of depressing that we wasted three first round picks on three guys that will amount to nothing for the Celtics.  I actually think one of two of them might actually have some talent.  They show signs in D-League.  We simply don't have minutes to even develop them or see what they can do.

And in that scenario, you're still talking about having Thomas/Bradley start with Smart and Dunn splitting back-up minutes.  That's a log jam.  You're either stunting Dunn's trade value by limiting his minutes to under 20, or you're stunting Smart's trade value by limiting his minutes to under 20.... or both.

Danny would likely keep one of them (probably Rozier) as injury insurance, and given that Young hasn't panned out (and could be kept as an end-of-the-bench shooter/d-leaguer without effecting the guard rotation) and Hunter was #28, it isn't really that disappointing. Some picks don't pan out, and there's nothing wrong with cutting your losses.  Heck, we could keep all three as long as they understand that they won't be getting more minutes this year (barring an injury)

We have Turner's 28 minutes to spread around.  As long as Smart can play small ball SF some of the time, we would have plenty of minutes to go around

[Ilikesports17]

If other teams want Dunn, then Danny has most of the leverage.  If other teams want Okafor, then Philly has most of the leverage.

Considering that it's widely acknowledged Okafor, warts and all, is a superior prospect to Dunn and every other prospect available at #3 - you might need to give Philly the nod with that logic.

What other teams are clamoring for Okafor?? Go ahead - I'll wait. I don't even think he's been linked to any team outside of Boston. Noel, on the other hand, is a different story.

Wasnt phoenix linked to Okafor?

[Fafnir]

Philly.  Everyone knows they have to move one of their big men.  Most likely sooner rather than later.   

No one is holding a gun to Boston's head to HAVE to draft a guard.    I'm also not entirely sold that "there's immediate pressure to improve" on Boston's end.  Pressure from who?  A handfull of bloggers?

Pretty much my thoughts.

For all the pressure on Danny this draft, they have another shot next year with BKNs pick and the year after. Its unlikely to be as high either year, but still lots of picks and the contract extension of him and Brad give him time as well.

[celticsclay]

Let's assume for a moment that the rumors are true that Boston can't trade #3 for any of their ideal targets (Middleton, Parker, Cousins, Hayward, Butler).

Let's also just assume for a moment that Kris Dunn is the pick at #3, because even if we don't get a deal done pre-draft, we can entice Philly into a trade using Dunn. 

Who has less Leverage?

Philly:  Thanks to Simmons, Philly has no major pressure to win immediately.  It's widely known they need a guard at some point. 

- They claim they will play Simmons as an unconventional PG.
- As many still point out, there's a chance Saric stays overseas
- They have two starting bigs in Okafor/Embiid with Noel off the bench.

Celts: There's immediate pressure to improve.  They are lacking in size.

- They have two starting guards in Thomas and Bradley with Smart off the bench.
- They have three more 1st round guards they didn't have minutes for:  Rozier, Hunter, Young
-  If they draft Dunn, that's a 7th guard they likely don't have minutes for unless Smart loses a lot of minutes.
- They have 7 additional draft picks that they likely don't have minutes for.

Both teams are dealing with log jams in that scenario.   Philly and their 3-5 bigs.   Boston and their 7-14 guards.

I think it is pretty obvious that Philly has less leverage. Can you imagine a scenario that Philly goes into next season with Okafor, Noel and Embiid all on the roster (along with perhaps saric)?

Yeah, actually. I can.  It's not going to be successful, but it's an option.   They just let Simmons control the ball, play Saric at SF, and have a 3-man rotation of Okafor, Noel and Embiid at the bigs.  What's the worst that can happen?  They win less than 10 games?

Can you imagine a scenario where Boston heads into next season with Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Dunn, Rozier, Hunter, Young ... and our 7 other draft picks?   Are we ready to just punt on Rozier, Hunter and Young (all three of which were key 1st round pick investments) and leave them in d-league indefinitely?

Young is complete garbage and probably won't be on the active roster. So lets stop being ridiculous and including him in the discussion. Having Hunter, a late round raw shooter, spend the year in the d-league is also nothing shocking and no hurt to the franchise. It is less than ideal if they feel that Rozier can play but there are not minutes for him, but again, he is a mid first round pick.

Okafor, Embiid, Saric and Noel all are lottery picks that need to play 30 plus minutes a night. The clocks on their rookie contracts are also a lot further along in the case of Noel and Embiid. It is a disaster to not have enough minutes to play high lottery picks in their 3rd and 4th season respectively. It is not a disaster to not have minutes for a rookie (Dunn) or some late first round draft picks in their second year. I know you are smart enough to realize this.

[saltlover]

With three PGs being traded in the last hour, Philly is running low on alternatives.

[celticsclay]

With three PGs being traded in the last hour, Philly is running low on alternatives.

Yea that certainly does not help that teague and rose are off the market.

[loco_91]

I think the Sixers have less leverage. They are drafting Simmons, who is a PF. You can use him as a point forward, but that doesn't mean that he will be able to play next to two non-shooting big men. Under new management, Philly is trying to end the Process, and that means balancing their roster.

Meanwhile, other teams also reportedly want Dunn. The Celtics can just draft him, and they will certainly find someone to pay up for him. Or, they can just keep him, and trade other guys to make it work. There is no pressing need to make a draft-day trade.

[Diggles]

So you're saying Philly has the edge? CBlog will be shocked.

TP~  You speak the truth! 

Celtics have the least.  To many picks and not enough roster spots.    Ad in the fact the best players available at #3 are guards/wings.  In my opinion.