I'm Feeling Iffy About Trading For Jimmy Butler Now...

[Phantom255x]

There was a time where I would have LOVED to get Butler... But now I'm not feeling it.

After seeing Minnesota enter the "Butler sweepstakes" and discussions about #5+LaVine or even #5+Wiggins for Butler... I think it's fair to say the Bulls will ask for a king's ransom for Butler. (And it should be noted even the TWolves are very hesitant to trade #5+LaVine alone for Butler now, and the Bulls want more as well)

And the Bulls deservedly so should ask for a king's ransom for Butler, but the Celtics in that case should keep #3, Bradley and the other fillers they may have had to trade (like Rozier, #16 and Jerebko). Don't blow up the core for a guy who scores just 5 ppg more than Bradley and has defense that might be slightly inferior to Bradley (no offense to Butler).

It's also hard for me to include Bradley or Crowder in any deal because I love those guys, but the Bulls definitely want them as a starting point in any deal so I say no. There's a reason lots of teams like Chicago want Bradley in a deal. They love him, All NBA First Defense, bargain 3 and D guy (valuable in today's NBA), and he has already received praise about his defense and hustle by other players (like IT, Lillard, etc.).

Crowder gives Lebron fits and his perimeter defense with Bradley is lethal in the league (makes it a lot harder for opponents).

And hey, Bradley is an "All-NBA First Defender" that can also score 15-16 PPG. Bradley and Crowder are a big reason why we are actually competitive against Golden State everytime we play them.

And lastly, Durant isn't coming here this year even if we trade for Butler and/or sign Horford this offseason. Our best bet is to ask Durant this offseason what we could do in the next two free agency periods, the 2017 Draft and trade deadline to convince him to come here, while he does a 1+1 in OKC and tries again for a Final with the Thunder for another season before he, Westbrook, and Ibaka all enter FA.

So yeah, I think I'm in the "Don't trade for Butler" sweepstakes now. Just draft someone like Brown, Murray or Dunn (I'll be happy with anyone honestly I'll trust Ainge for now) and don't blow up the core this offseason.

[LGC88]

We don't really need Durant to win a championship.
They are young, and with other young players like Butler, once develop, another star from the youngest or simply joining us next season will make us contender.

[Smartacus]

There was a time where I would have LOVED to get Butler... But now I'm not feeling it.

After seeing Minnesota enter the "Butler sweepstakes" and discussions about #5+LaVine or even #5+Wiggins for Butler... I think it's fair to say the Bulls will ask for a king's ransom for Butler. (And it should be noted even the TWolves are very hesitant to trade #5+LaVine alone for Butler now, and the Bulls want more as well)

And the Bulls deservedly so should ask for a king's ransom for Butler, but the Celtics in that case should keep #3, Bradley and the other fillers they may have had to trade (like Rozier, #16 and Jerebko). Don't blow up the core for a guy who scores just 5 ppg more than Bradley and has defense that might be slightly inferior to Bradley (no offense to Butler).

[Point 1]It's also hard for me to include Bradley or Crowder in any deal because I love those guys, but the Bulls definitely want them as a starting point in any deal so I say no. There's a reason lots of teams like Chicago want Bradley in a deal. They love him, All NBA First Defense, bargain 3 and D guy (valuable in today's NBA), and he has already received praise about his defense and hustle by other players (like IT, Lillard, etc.).

[Point 2]Crowder gives Lebron fits and his perimeter defense with Bradley is lethal in the league (makes it a lot harder for opponents).

And hey, Bradley is an "All-NBA First Defender" that can also score 15-16 PPG. Bradley and Crowder are a big reason why we are actually competitive against Golden State everytime we play them.

And lastly, Durant isn't coming here this year even if we trade for Butler and/or sign Horford this offseason. Our best bet is to ask Durant this offseason what we could do in the next two free agency periods, the 2017 Draft and trade deadline to convince him to come here, while he does a 1+1 in OKC and tries again for a Final with the Thunder for another season before he, Westbrook, and Ibaka all enter FA.

[Point 3]So yeah, I think I'm in the "Don't trade for Butler" sweepstakes now. Just draft someone like Brown, Murray or Dunn (I'll be happy with anyone honestly I'll trust Ainge for now) and don't blow up the core this offseason.

Point one: I'd probably say you need to be a bit more dispassionate and not become too attached to 2 of our 3 most valuable trade assets as players. As you said, both are fine, high character individuals, locked into team friendly contracts, but it's also the reason other teams would want them. I'm thankful for the time and effort they've put in but I wouldn't let either hold up a Jimmy Butler trade. Of the 2 I'd rather trade Bradley since we have players that can put up similar production, and I want to see if Butler and Crowder can develop chemistry through the Marquette connection.

These 2 have been great for us but other players could be great as well and we still have a wealth of future assets.

Point 2 on Crowder: Does he really give Lebron fits? I've seen Lebron repeatedly torch Crowder on several occasions and aside from the game that we stole from them in Cleveland this year, we have had very limited success against Cleveland in the Brad Stevens era. Not to mention the inconvenient fact that Crowder has now been plagued by injuries come playoff time for 2 consecutive years. He can't be the only line of defense against Lebron, Jimmy Butler could help take some of that pressure off him.

Point 3 on Breaking up the core: I think this is a much better time to try to consolidate our assets and acquire a foundational piece like Butler than next year, since the 2017 Draft is looking to be potentially incredible. If we end up with a top 3 pick next year it would take an absolute godfather offer to justify trading it. It's definitely a risk since there is no way to know how bad Brooklyn will be but realistically is there any way to envision them winning more than 20 or so games?

Acquire Jimmy Butler now, and next year you could put a legitimate wing scorer like Jason Tatum, high upside wing talent like Josh Jackson or Harry Giles or an athletic beast of a Center like Bam Adebayo. You say you want to try for Durant in 2017, doesn't that sound like a more enticing team than our current roster + the sophomore season of a Jaylen Brown, Dragan Bender or Jamal Murray?

[spikelovetheCelts]

There was a time where I would have LOVED to get Butler... But now I'm not feeling it.

After seeing Minnesota enter the "Butler sweepstakes" and discussions about #5+LaVine or even #5+Wiggins for Butler... I think it's fair to say the Bulls will ask for a king's ransom for Butler. (And it should be noted even the TWolves are very hesitant to trade #5+LaVine alone for Butler now, and the Bulls want more as well)

And the Bulls deservedly so should ask for a king's ransom for Butler, but the Celtics in that case should keep #3, Bradley and the other fillers they may have had to trade (like Rozier, #16 and Jerebko). Don't blow up the core for a guy who scores just 5 ppg more than Bradley and has defense that might be slightly inferior to Bradley (no offense to Butler).

It's also hard for me to include Bradley or Crowder in any deal because I love those guys, but the Bulls definitely want them as a starting point in any deal so I say no. There's a reason lots of teams like Chicago want Bradley in a deal. They love him, All NBA First Defense, bargain 3 and D guy (valuable in today's NBA), and he has already received praise about his defense and hustle by other players (like IT, Lillard, etc.).

Crowder gives Lebron fits and his perimeter defense with Bradley is lethal in the league (makes it a lot harder for opponents).

And hey, Bradley is an "All-NBA First Defender" that can also score 15-16 PPG. Bradley and Crowder are a big reason why we are actually competitive against Golden State everytime we play them.

And lastly, Durant isn't coming here this year even if we trade for Butler and/or sign Horford this offseason. Our best bet is to ask Durant this offseason what we could do in the next two free agency periods, the 2017 Draft and trade deadline to convince him to come here, while he does a 1+1 in OKC and tries again for a Final with the Thunder for another season before he, Westbrook, and Ibaka all enter FA.

So yeah, I think I'm in the "Don't trade for Butler" sweepstakes now. Just draft someone like Brown, Murray or Dunn (I'll be happy with anyone honestly I'll trust Ainge for now) and don't blow up the core this offseason.

Draft and build hopefully we can turn these 8 picks in to 3-4 good young players sign Amir and JJ wait till trade deadline and see what is out there. Let our core grow.
 If we have to keep some 2nd rounders stash a couple we can. No one is going to fleece DA.

[Fred Roberts]

I like the build from within strategy myself as well. We have 8 lotto tickets this draft. I feel like there are diamonds out there and Jimmy is a great example of an overlooked guy that really panned out.   

Gary Payton Jr is a 2nd rounder I'd take a flyer on. He's tall, rangy and has a diverse skill set. There are others too.

All that said, I'm not going to cry if we trade for Mr. Jim Buckets. The dude is nice.

[chiken Green]

I think Butler is a good player.. Really good.  But not a franchise piece..  Not a piece that you build around..  But in order to get him we would have to give up the bulk of the pieces that could possible land us that piece we need to build around..

And then people are even Willing to give up IT for the guy and their numbers are Practically the same.

[Phantom255x]

There was a time where I would have LOVED to get Butler... But now I'm not feeling it.

After seeing Minnesota enter the "Butler sweepstakes" and discussions about #5+LaVine or even #5+Wiggins for Butler... I think it's fair to say the Bulls will ask for a king's ransom for Butler. (And it should be noted even the TWolves are very hesitant to trade #5+LaVine alone for Butler now, and the Bulls want more as well)

And the Bulls deservedly so should ask for a king's ransom for Butler, but the Celtics in that case should keep #3, Bradley and the other fillers they may have had to trade (like Rozier, #16 and Jerebko). Don't blow up the core for a guy who scores just 5 ppg more than Bradley and has defense that might be slightly inferior to Bradley (no offense to Butler).

[Point 1]It's also hard for me to include Bradley or Crowder in any deal because I love those guys, but the Bulls definitely want them as a starting point in any deal so I say no. There's a reason lots of teams like Chicago want Bradley in a deal. They love him, All NBA First Defense, bargain 3 and D guy (valuable in today's NBA), and he has already received praise about his defense and hustle by other players (like IT, Lillard, etc.).

[Point 2]Crowder gives Lebron fits and his perimeter defense with Bradley is lethal in the league (makes it a lot harder for opponents).

And hey, Bradley is an "All-NBA First Defender" that can also score 15-16 PPG. Bradley and Crowder are a big reason why we are actually competitive against Golden State everytime we play them.

And lastly, Durant isn't coming here this year even if we trade for Butler and/or sign Horford this offseason. Our best bet is to ask Durant this offseason what we could do in the next two free agency periods, the 2017 Draft and trade deadline to convince him to come here, while he does a 1+1 in OKC and tries again for a Final with the Thunder for another season before he, Westbrook, and Ibaka all enter FA.

[Point 3]So yeah, I think I'm in the "Don't trade for Butler" sweepstakes now. Just draft someone like Brown, Murray or Dunn (I'll be happy with anyone honestly I'll trust Ainge for now) and don't blow up the core this offseason.

Point one: I'd probably say you need to be a bit more dispassionate and not become too attached to 2 of our 3 most valuable trade assets as players. As you said, both are fine, high character individuals, locked into team friendly contracts, but it's also the reason other teams would want them. I'm thankful for the time and effort they've put in but I wouldn't let either hold up a Jimmy Butler trade. Of the 2 I'd rather trade Bradley since we have players that can put up similar production, and I want to see if Butler and Crowder can develop chemistry through the Marquette connection.

These 2 have been great for us but other players could be great as well and we still have a wealth of future assets.

Point 2 on Crowder: Does he really give Lebron fits? I've seen Lebron repeatedly torch Crowder on several occasions and aside from the game that we stole from them in Cleveland this year, we have had very limited success against Cleveland in the Brad Stevens era. Not to mention the inconvenient fact that Crowder has now been plagued by injuries come playoff time for 2 consecutive years. He can't be the only line of defense against Lebron, Jimmy Butler could help take some of that pressure off him.

Point 3 on Breaking up the core: I think this is a much better time to try to consolidate our assets and acquire a foundational piece like Butler than next year, since the 2017 Draft is looking to be potentially incredible. If we end up with a top 3 pick next year it would take an absolute godfather offer to justify trading it. It's definitely a risk since there is no way to know how bad Brooklyn will be but realistically is there any way to envision them winning more than 20 or so games?

Acquire Jimmy Butler now, and next year you could put a legitimate wing scorer like Jason Tatum, high upside wing talent like Josh Jackson or Harry Giles or an athletic beast of a Center like Bam Adebayo. You say you want to try for Durant in 2017, doesn't that sound like a more enticing team than our current roster + the sophomore season of a Jaylen Brown, Dragan Bender or Jamal Murray?

About Crowder, I don't mean like he is better than Lebron (he certainly isn't).

But Crowder is like the heart and soul of the team... And also a guy who can bring "mean" attitude into games, sort of like Draymond Green. Crowder can't defend Lebron entirely but he brings that grit and intensity that is required to beat top teams in the NBA.

Also if I'm not mistaken there were a few games where Crowder and a few Celtics got into some scuffles with James and the Cavs.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Trading for Butler just does not make sense for us. We would be better off trading for Okafor. But I here are some possible scenarios:

1. Trading for Okafor
2. Drafting Buddy Hield at #3, it's my inclination that the LAL want him and would be willing to trade Ingram.If they ask too much we can keep him and pair him with a legit 3-pt shooting point guard. Aso, if LAL are confident about landing Westbrook or other stars, and some at the point, with the addition of Buddy Hield makes Deangelo Russell available....

IDK I got really excited when I saw that they offered Lavine in the deal for Butler. I think he is just great and even though he is mostly forced to play shooting gurad, he can still run the point. We need to get a point that can shoot the 3 at a very good percentage(Lavine shot 39%)and looks like a guy that can bust out.

[SHAQATTACK]

Not sure if we should REBUILD the Bulls via trading multiple nets picks , a friendly AB and Crowder contract.

The amount of assets they seem to want via reports seem to kill the appeal of a trade.

[BDeCosta26]

Trading for Butler just does not make sense for us. We would be better off trading for Okafor. But I here are some possible scenarios:

1. Trading for Okafor
2. Drafting Buddy Hield at #3, it's my inclination that the LAL want him and would be willing to trade Ingram.If they ask too much we can keep him and pair him with a legit 3-pt shooting point guard. Aso, if LAL are confident about landing Westbrook or other stars, and some at the point, with the addition of Buddy Hield makes Deangelo Russell available....

IDK I got really excited when I saw that they offered Lavine in the deal for Butler. I think he is just great and even though he is mostly forced to play shooting gurad, he can still run the point. We need to get a point that can shoot the 3 at a very good percentage(Lavine shot 39%)and looks like a guy that can bust out.

Why is trading for Okafor more fitting than Butler?

Butler would fit right into the way this team plays, and he's the same age as our best players. Okafor doesn't fit into our style of play at all, and is younger than the vast majority of our team.

If we get Okafor, we won't be using #3 unless we get more back than just him.

[flybono]

Trading for Butler just does not make sense for us. We would be better off trading for Okafor. But I here are some possible scenarios:

1. Trading for Okafor
2. Drafting Buddy Hield at #3, it's my inclination that the LAL want him and would be willing to trade Ingram.If they ask too much we can keep him and pair him with a legit 3-pt shooting point guard. Aso, if LAL are confident about landing Westbrook or other stars, and some at the point, with the addition of Buddy Hield makes Deangelo Russell available....

IDK I got really excited when I saw that they offered Lavine in the deal for Butler. I think he is just great and even though he is mostly forced to play shooting gurad, he can still run the point. We need to get a point that can shoot the 3 at a very good percentage(Lavine shot 39%)and looks like a guy that can bust out.

Buddy is not the answer. His shot is to slow to develop.

[action781]

And the Bulls deservedly so should ask for a king's ransom for Butler, but the Celtics in that case should keep #3, Bradley and the other fillers they may have had to trade (like Rozier, #16 and Jerebko). Don't blow up the core for a guy who scores just 5 ppg more than Bradley and has defense that might be slightly inferior to Bradley (no offense to Butler).

It's also hard for me to include Bradley or Crowder in any deal because I love those guys, but the Bulls definitely want them as a starting point in any deal so I say no. There's a reason lots of teams like Chicago want Bradley in a deal. They love him, All NBA First Defense, bargain 3 and D guy (valuable in today's NBA), and he has already received praise about his defense and hustle by other players (like IT, Lillard, etc.).

I'm with you here.  I'm seeing a Butler deal less and less likely to occur.

Also, when in recent memory has Danny ever pulled off a trade that was widely being discussed by the media?  The biggest trades since 2007: the Ray Allen trade, the Brooklyn trade, the Jeff Green trade, and the IT4 trade all took me by complete surprise.  I can't recall offhand if Rondo to Dallas was discussed at all prior.

I'm finding it pretty safe to assume that anything being reported is all smoke and no fire.  I'm even beginning to ask myself why I've been fooled into thinking otherwise for so long.

[Phantom255x]

And the Bulls deservedly so should ask for a king's ransom for Butler, but the Celtics in that case should keep #3, Bradley and the other fillers they may have had to trade (like Rozier, #16 and Jerebko). Don't blow up the core for a guy who scores just 5 ppg more than Bradley and has defense that might be slightly inferior to Bradley (no offense to Butler).

It's also hard for me to include Bradley or Crowder in any deal because I love those guys, but the Bulls definitely want them as a starting point in any deal so I say no. There's a reason lots of teams like Chicago want Bradley in a deal. They love him, All NBA First Defense, bargain 3 and D guy (valuable in today's NBA), and he has already received praise about his defense and hustle by other players (like IT, Lillard, etc.).

I'm with you here.  I'm seeing a Butler deal less and less likely to occur.

Also, when in recent memory has Danny ever pulled off a trade that was widely being discussed by the media?  The biggest trades since 2007: the Ray Allen trade, the Brooklyn trade, the Jeff Green trade, and the IT4 trade all took me by complete surprise.  I can't recall offhand if Rondo to Dallas was discussed at all prior.

I'm finding it pretty safe to assume that anything being reported is all smoke and no fire.  I'm even beginning to ask myself why I've been fooled into thinking otherwise for so long.

True, and yeah many of those trades surprised me as well. The IT4 one especially (seriously with all the other rumors going on and 5 minutes to go in the deadline it looked like we would 99% stay pat, then IT4 happens  )

The thing about Butler trade rumors, there have been tons of reports but not many from the Bulls websites or blogs. It's as if they assume Butler will definitely stay. Yes, they have some opinions blogs/polls about trading Butler but most of their rumors come from outside sources (like ESPN) so it's like Butler is essentially untouchable at this point.

[Phantom255x]

Trading for Butler just does not make sense for us. We would be better off trading for Okafor. But I here are some possible scenarios:

1. Trading for Okafor
2. Drafting Buddy Hield at #3, it's my inclination that the LAL want him and would be willing to trade Ingram.If they ask too much we can keep him and pair him with a legit 3-pt shooting point guard. Aso, if LAL are confident about landing Westbrook or other stars, and some at the point, with the addition of Buddy Hield makes Deangelo Russell available....

IDK I got really excited when I saw that they offered Lavine in the deal for Butler. I think he is just great and even though he is mostly forced to play shooting gurad, he can still run the point. We need to get a point that can shoot the 3 at a very good percentage(Lavine shot 39%)and looks like a guy that can bust out.

Why is trading for Okafor more fitting than Butler?

Butler would fit right into the way this team plays, and he's the same age as our best players. Okafor doesn't fit into our style of play at all, and is younger than the vast majority of our team.

If we get Okafor, we won't be using #3 unless we get more back than just him.

I think teams are against giving up a TOP-5 pick for just Okafor.

I would give the Sixers #3 if they gave the C's Okafor, Covington, and #24.

Use #24 to draft a project like Thon Maker who would probably be taken by someone in the late first round. Or use #16 for Maker and use #24 for a projected mid-first rounder who slips. Something like that.

Covington provides some depth for the 3 behind Crowder.

More than anything Okafor and Covington can become valuable trade chips for the Celtics to package along with picks and maybe another young player for a star. It's possible.

Sixer fans are absurd to think a package like #3 + Smart/Bradley + Future Nets Pick is a "starting point" for Okafor.

[Granath]

There was a time where I would have LOVED to get Butler... But now I'm not feeling it.

After seeing Minnesota enter the "Butler sweepstakes" and discussions about #5+LaVine or even #5+Wiggins for Butler... I think it's fair to say the Bulls will ask for a king's ransom for Butler. (And it should be noted even the TWolves are very hesitant to trade #5+LaVine alone for Butler now, and the Bulls want more as well)

Ok, take a deep breath. Wiggins is worth more than Butler right now, so Minny has no interest whatsoever in sending #5 + Wiggins. Wiggins already is as good of a scorer as Butler and getting better, is 21 years old and is under a rookie contract. In two years Wiggins, solely based on his will be worth more than Butler. Right now he's worth more due to potential, age and contract.

So throw that right out the window.

As for LaVine and #5, that's more possible but that's not insurmountable if the Cs want Butler. Frankly I think that's probably a good deal for both teams and they should do it.

And the Bulls deservedly so should ask for a king's ransom for Butler, but the Celtics in that case should keep #3, Bradley and the other fillers they may have had to trade (like Rozier, #16 and Jerebko). Don't blow up the core for a guy who scores just 5 ppg more than Bradley and has defense that might be slightly inferior to Bradley (no offense to Butler).

Chicago should ask for everything and the moon. But they won't get it because you never do when you send out the best player.

But the second half of your paragraph basically spells out why I don't think there's going to be a deal for Butler (unless Ainge has another Ray Allen-to-get-KG type thing up his sleeve). It's because due to Bradley, Butler simply isn't worth as much to the Celtics as he is to Chicago or a couple of other teams. While Butler is certainly an upgrade, getting him likely doesn't propel this team leaps-and-bounds forward as would other acquisitions or getting the right draftee.

It's also hard for me to include Bradley or Crowder in any deal because I love those guys, but the Bulls definitely want them as a starting point in any deal so I say no. There's a reason lots of teams like Chicago want Bradley in a deal. They love him, All NBA First Defense, bargain 3 and D guy (valuable in today's NBA), and he has already received praise about his defense and hustle by other players (like IT, Lillard, etc.).

Crowder gives Lebron fits and his perimeter defense with Bradley is lethal in the league (makes it a lot harder for opponents).

And hey, Bradley is an "All-NBA First Defender" that can also score 15-16 PPG. Bradley and Crowder are a big reason why we are actually competitive against Golden State everytime we play them.

Which again shows why Butler isn't worth as much to the Cs. Toss out the idea of Crowder altogether because if he goes the Cs have no one at SF. They'd have to strike it rich in FA to fill that gap. Bradley is expendable if Butler comes but Ainge would be spending big assets to get Butler here and to upgrade an already strong spot on the team.

And lastly, Durant isn't coming here this year even if we trade for Butler and/or sign Horford this offseason. Our best bet is to ask Durant this offseason what we could do in the next two free agency periods, the 2017 Draft and trade deadline to convince him to come here, while he does a 1+1 in OKC and tries again for a Final with the Thunder for another season before he, Westbrook, and Ibaka all enter FA.

So yeah, I think I'm in the "Don't trade for Butler" sweepstakes now. Just draft someone like Brown, Murray or Dunn (I'll be happy with anyone honestly I'll trust Ainge for now) and don't blow up the core this offseason.

I don't expect Durant to go anywhere because his best play is to stay with OKC one more year and go as a FA next year.

As for the "don't trade for Butler", it's probably not in the Cs best interest to do so. It's just not a great fit. I think Danny has something working and as always he'll play it very close to the chest until springing it on everyone (like Ray Allen). I would NOT be surprised to see Danny get Blake Griffin in a huge package deal or even Brook Lopez (returning the 2018 Nets pick back to them) on draft night. But I really don't see the Butler trade happening (again, with the caveat that Danny does the Butler trade to to do something else).