An offer to Pat Riley: #3 pick for Justise Winslow

[action781]

Are you serious? I didn't see Winslow as being that valuable. 16 maybe and Young.

42% FG 68% FT 27% 3pt 6.5 RPG - not worth a #3

Did you watch a lot of the Toronto series?  He's 20 years old and played excellent defense on everybody 1-5 from Lowry to Derozan to Biyombo.  It was incredible.  He's going to be a perennial staple on the all-defensive team.

I mean he got a DNP-CD one of the games and played 14 minutes in another. He played more once Whiteside was injured out of necessity, but there weren't a lot of other options. Plus lets not forget about the other side of the ball. In 14 games in the playoffs he shot 16% from 3 and averaged 6 points. For the whole regular season he was only at 27% shooting from 3. For a team that desperately needs shooting he is kind of the last player we need right now. Also the 3rd pick is a laughable overpay IMO

I'm not sure how any of
a.) getting a DNP-CD in game 3
b.) playing 14 minutes in game 2
c.) playing out of necessity because there weren't other options
take away from the defense that he played towards the end of the series when he WAS on the floor.  That's like discrediting Biyombo as a player because Valanciunas was injured.  I can't fathom how anybody who watched game 7 didn't recognize how Winslow was the only player who could stop anybody and he stopped just about anybody 1-5 who he was guarding at any given time.  It was really eye-opening.  There's nothing fluky about playing great defense like there is about having a great shooting night.

As for the offense, you are incorrect on our 19 year old rookie in question here.  He averaged 6.9ppg (9.8 PP36) and shot 5/18 (27.8%) from deep in the playoffs.  I mean IT4 has probably had single games where he shot 5/18.  I get that IT4 is a great shooter and Justice isn't, but let's not indict the young guy forever for 18 shot attempts.  But even with being a 27.8% shooter, his defense is what you're acquiring him for.

All that said though, I'm not sure I would trade the #3 pick for him.  Tough call for me.  By no means laughable IMO though.

[Global Celtic]

Justise Winslow will be on NBA All Defense team in 3 years. It's my projection. I would offer #3 AND James Young/Terry Rozier.

[Tr1boy]

Yeah, I think I'd take Winslow at #3 if he were in this draft so I'm in.

50-50 whether Miami would do it.

I guess that's how weak this draft is

[A Future of Stevens]

I have more faith Winslow will develop into a scorer than Smart's fundamentally flawed shot, and his poor shot selection.

This is an interesting idea, one way to guarantee value for the pick instead of gambling it, and one way to add a player that makes the Celtics immediately better.

I still remain intrigued by grabbing Dunn, making Danny the person of contact for the teams below who want him or affording us the opportunity of off-loading Smart for more immediate scoring help, i.e. Okafor.

One of my buddies from college moved to the Miami area a few years ago, and he watches their games all the time. While talking to him about winslow he had a few points of criticism. He didn't like winslows poor shot selection (decent amount of long 2s) and did not show any signs of being able to create for himself or others. About the only thing in his opinion winslow showed flashes of was defensive superstardom. He thought that while about 1 out of every 15 or 20 plays called for winslow he flashes stardom, he totally understands why he was available at 10.

Now here is where it gets interesting. For some giggles I asked him which prospect he would rather build around (winslow or smart) and after some consideration he voted smart. I was on the fence, but he brought up a good point. When we watch these kids all the time and follow them, we tend to fall in love with the guys we see once in awhile.

He thought that while winslow ultimately has a higher chance of being an average player in the league (due to his size) than smart, he has a lower chance of being a star than smart. (Typical high ceiling vs low floor)

Anecdotal? Of course. Interesting none the less.

[KGs Knee]

I like Winslow a lot, but his shot is so mechanical that I'm not sure if he can ever get it to a respectable level.

Miami won't be invested in this trade, though. Riley is looking to clear cap space (see McRoberts maybe even Dragic) in order to re-sign both Wade and Whiteside and perhaps have a bit more for something else. They're in a really bad spot at the moment since they have to take care of Wade first and foremost, due to his 30M cap hold, then move on to Whiteside who could be gone by then.

Riley's too smart to let Wade's contract get in the way. Something will get done that allows them to keep both Wade and Whiteside without having to give up assets. They only would give up assets if it allowed then to sign Durant as well.

Wade can take a super cheap one year deal, maintain Bird Right's, and then sign another make good contract next year using said Bird Right's. His $20 mil contract this past season was part of that, I bet. Miami has known for a full season and a half they would need cap space to potentially pay Whiteside. Riley has been planning for this. The only wrench is Bosh's health, which they obviously did not plan for.

[Future Celtics Owner]

No way. IMO we would be much better off trading the #3
4
Okafor

Okafor has much more promise than everyone believes, and much of it has to do with the new way basketball team strategy is focused on. But a legit rookie that is a solid 280 will most def have some or a lot of problems handling themselves defensively and that is because they usually need to do more work in regards to conditioning, rotations, defensive slides and lateral quickness.

[Irish Stew]

For a team that needs shooting and already has at least four good perimeter defenders ( Bradley, Crowder, Smart, and Rozier), taking a player whose shooting is a work in progress for the #3 seems reckless IMO. What is more alarming than his weak 3-point shooting this past year is his 68% FT shooting.

[celticsclay]

Are you serious? I didn't see Winslow as being that valuable. 16 maybe and Young.

42% FG 68% FT 27% 3pt 6.5 RPG - not worth a #3

Did you watch a lot of the Toronto series?  He's 20 years old and played excellent defense on everybody 1-5 from Lowry to Derozan to Biyombo.  It was incredible.  He's going to be a perennial staple on the all-defensive team.

I mean he got a DNP-CD one of the games and played 14 minutes in another. He played more once Whiteside was injured out of necessity, but there weren't a lot of other options. Plus lets not forget about the other side of the ball. In 14 games in the playoffs he shot 16% from 3 and averaged 6 points. For the whole regular season he was only at 27% shooting from 3. For a team that desperately needs shooting he is kind of the last player we need right now. Also the 3rd pick is a laughable overpay IMO

I'm not sure how any of
a.) getting a DNP-CD in game 3
b.) playing 14 minutes in game 2
c.) playing out of necessity because there weren't other options
take away from the defense that he played towards the end of the series when he WAS on the floor.  That's like discrediting Biyombo as a player because Valanciunas was injured.  I can't fathom how anybody who watched game 7 didn't recognize how Winslow was the only player who could stop anybody and he stopped just about anybody 1-5 who he was guarding at any given time.  It was really eye-opening.  There's nothing fluky about playing great defense like there is about having a great shooting night.

As for the offense, you are incorrect on our 19 year old rookie in question here.  He averaged 6.9ppg (9.8 PP36) and shot 5/18 (27.8%) from deep in the playoffs.  I mean IT4 has probably had single games where he shot 5/18.  I get that IT4 is a great shooter and Justice isn't, but let's not indict the young guy forever for 18 shot attempts.  But even with being a 27.8% shooter, his defense is what you're acquiring him for.

All that said though, I'm not sure I would trade the #3 pick for him.  Tough call for me.  By no means laughable IMO though.

It shows that the coaching staff, that had watched him in practice all year, trusted more players on the court than him after a full year in the most important games of the year. That is certainly a relevant point. I also don't think shutting down Bismack on offense is a big achievement if that is what you are suggesting. He kind of shuts down himself. My mistake on the stats I looked at his conference finals when he shot most of his attempts he was at 16%. He hit 3 out of 6 in the second round upping his percentage to 27%. I don't think either of us (or anyone) thinks he is a shooter and I would hope you agree we really need players that can shoot right now (and create their own shot). I certainly don't think we need another elite defensive player that is not very good at offense on our team so the trade would be horrible for us. I do think Ainge would be ridiculed for trading the number 3 pick for a guy that didn't even make all-rookie team the year before would kind of be madness. He was the 9th pick It is hard to see him being ranked much higher than 8th out of the guys picked last year. I get there isn't a sexy name this year, but that is just poor value for the 3rd pick.

[celticsclay]

Yeah, I think I'd take Winslow at #3 if he were in this draft so I'm in.

50-50 whether Miami would do it.

I guess that's how weak this draft is

or just a few poster's opinions that don't background in scouting or deep knowledge of the players in the draft.

[celticsclay]

Heck no, Miami wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do it for #1, either. Winslow has got a shot at greatness in this league.  He's already got it defensively, and that's at 20 years old. What happens when he actually develops his game & learns this league ?

not trading winslow for simmons would be perceived as madness by just about anyone. Even if you absolutely hate Simmons, you could get a lot more from other teams in the league than Winslow for that pick.

[dreamgreen]

It puzzles me how many people want to draft/trade for a defensive wing with a top pick. You don't draft for defense when it comes to wings at the top of the draft, you just don't! You can get those type of guys in the teens and 20's. Not to mention I think Hield will be better than Winslow and I'm not even sure I'd take him with the third pick. Winslow hasn't done jack Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. guys come on!! Get off the defensive wings, the team needs scoring we are not going to win games trying to hold opponents to 80 ppg.

[saltlover]

It puzzles me how many people want to draft/trade for a defensive wing with a top pick. You don't draft for defense when it comes to wings at the top of the draft, you just don't! You can get those type of guys in the teens and 20's. Not to mention I think Hield will be better than Winslow and I'm not even sure I'd take him with the third pick. Winslow hasn't done jack **** guys come on!! Get off the defensive wings, the team needs scoring we are not going to win games trying to hold opponents to 80 ppg.

Because a lot of people, Danny Ainge included I bet, look at Justise Winslow as more than a defensive wing.  He's a kid who shot 42% from 3 as a freshman (Ingram shot 41% this year, as comparison), with a decent assist rate  to boot, in addition to playing great defense and a solid performance on the boards.  It's not surprising that a teenager shot poorly in his first NBA season, given that the 3-point line is further back.  That he was able to be a successful rotation player at that age is a very good sign of his continued development, and I'd absolutely expect him to be a very solid offensive player in the NBA.  He may not be a top scoring option on a team, but he's not Tony Allen.

#3 would be a tough price to pay for him, but I wouldn't call for Danny's head if he did it.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Yeah, I think I'd take Winslow at #3 if he were in this draft so I'm in.

50-50 whether Miami would do it.

I guess that's how weak this draft is

or just a few poster's opinions that don't background in scouting or deep knowledge of the players in the draft.

That's like talking dirty to me lol tp

[KG Living Legend]

 Absolutely not. Bender or Murray.

[dreamgreen]

It puzzles me how many people want to draft/trade for a defensive wing with a top pick. You don't draft for defense when it comes to wings at the top of the draft, you just don't! You can get those type of guys in the teens and 20's. Not to mention I think Hield will be better than Winslow and I'm not even sure I'd take him with the third pick. Winslow hasn't done jack **** guys come on!! Get off the defensive wings, the team needs scoring we are not going to win games trying to hold opponents to 80 ppg.

Because a lot of people, Danny Ainge included I bet, look at Justise Winslow as more than a defensive wing.  He's a kid who shot 42% from 3 as a freshman (Ingram shot 41% this year, as comparison), with a decent assist rate  to boot, in addition to playing great defense and a solid performance on the boards.  It's not surprising that a teenager shot poorly in his first NBA season, given that the 3-point line is further back.  That he was able to be a successful rotation player at that age is a very good sign of his continued development, and I'd absolutely expect him to be a very solid offensive player in the NBA.  He may not be a top scoring option on a team, but he's not Tony Allen.

#3 would be a tough price to pay for him, but I wouldn't call for Danny's head if he did it.

I totally agree he will get better but many of the posts I read talked about defense as if it was the reason why you make that trade. I admit I only saw Miami play 10 times this year but at the end of the year Richard(s or son) whatever his name was the other rookie was more impressive than Winslow. Nothing Winslow did made me think he will be better than Smart and I'm not sold on Smart at this point. So me personally would rather roll the dice on drafting at #3. If it was the 10th pick or so than yes I would make the trade.