Got a feeling Celtics pick Murray and Sabonis

[Beat LA]

for those that think Murray lacks athleticism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHfJwm7tX_k


He is only 19 and has room to improve his conditioning. Become a quicker and even more explosive.   He has the strength part down.  Saw him finish through contact on several occasions last season

Holy crap is he slow.

 Beat La, is he slow at 40 seconds in if the video I posted, two posts back

I mean, it was a wide open put back dunk.  Woo . What's really funny is if you watch the first highlight of his baseline dunk against South Carolina, his real life speed is practically exactly the same as in the slow motion replay, lol .

I'd also like to point something else out that's highlighted in Murray's first score in this clip of his performance against Duke -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK2w0J84vFw

Watch how, despite his lack of speed, Murray just blows right by Ingram, who gave up on the play, quite honestly.  Why is Ingram lauded as this can't-miss superstar when he has so-so ball handling skills, terrible lateral quickness, if any, really, and he's not even a good leaper.  In terms of quickness, the guy looks to be a combination of Kyle Anderson and Austin Daye - not Kevin Durant.  If you actually watch him in most of the clips where he's driving by some dude on his way to throwing it down, the majority of those guys are slow, unathletic, white guys, lol.  It's not like he's blowing by a 6'7/6'8 athlete or anything, and because he'll need to add weight to avoid being snapped in half next year , wouldn't that make him even slower (admittedly, I am nowhere near an expert in this area)? 

Meanwhile, do you know who is of similar size but has much better fundamentals, lateral quickness, jumping ability, ball handling skills, and an incredible capacity to block shots?  Jarrod Uthoff from Iowa, whose 6'9 and weighs 214 lbs.  In addition, unlike Ingram, who has a 7'3 wingspan, Uthoff's wingspan is only 6'11.5, and yet, despite playing 3.1 fewer minutes per game, Jarrod blocked at a rate of 2.5 per game, and was over 3 bpg for a good stretch of the year, iirc, while Ingram, with his superior physical tools, only recorded 1.4 bpg, but because one dude is an 18 year old one-and-done from Duke and the other guy is a white, 23 year old senior from Iowa, the Dookie is automatically billed as the superior athlete who can 'guard multiple positions', while scouting reports of Uthoff question who he can guard at the next level . Huh?  Have they even watched these two play?  Uthoff had a better defensive rating than his team this past season - and no, that is not a typo - although I can't remember where I read it, haha.

My point being, don't get caught up in the hype of these teenagers just because they go to Duke or Kentucky, and Kentucky, in particular, although I don't like Duke, either, lol . Watch the tape (and no, not draftexpress - I mean actual games) and don't believe these white men can't jump stereotypes associated with Uthoff or that Thon Maker 'doesn't have skills or much of a basketball iq' in comparison with an equally mysterious draftee from eastern Europe who is automatically credited with being 'tremendously skilled with great fundamentals and a high basketball iq' despite severe noticeable deficiencies to the contrary in the little of him that we've seen on tape. 

I'll admit, I am highly skeptical of white American players, lol, and while I'm certainly not advocating for Uthoff to be taken at 3 (some sites have him going undrafted . Unbelievable.), I do hope that we can trade for Philly's two late firsts to use one of them on him, potentially, unless someone else falls.  You know who has already had him in for a private workout?  San Antonio.  That doesn't mean that they'll take him, of course, and I don't anticipate them selecting him unless someone in particular isn't at their spot, who we should draft, as well, but the Spurs don't waste their time and they know what they're doing.  Regardless, I really want to see Uthoff guard Ingram in the summer league.  I don't care if he doesn't score a single point - Uthoff would drive Ingram nuts on defense, lol . Who knows, he might surprise (and hopefully for us ).

Finally, in regards to Murray, does anyone have his stats as to what he shot off the dribble?  The reason why I ask is because there was a guy last year who we should have taken (him or Dakari Johnson, Cady Lalanne, etc.) instead of Marcus Thornton who led the nation in scoring and shot better than Murray despite not playing with another NBA player who has a very similar wingspan, except that he's a much better ball handler and is far quicker and faster than the prospective #3 pick this year.  Personally, he's the closest thing to Steph Curry I've ever seen (not that that means anything), at least at the collegiate level, and yet he spent the year pretty much sucking in the d-league for a couple of reasons, imo, although he still shot better than RJ Hunter, lol.  Remember this guy (I'd still love to trade for him, btw, haha)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-f8gnk6oh0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPk3EG0tD28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8gqkC1UJ7E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcK6fqldAmY

Listen, I'm probably wrong about these guys, but I don't see any harm in examining these players from a different perspective, you know?

[chambers]

AB has shown without top notch ball handling skills, you can still do loads of damage on the offensive end

And murray is a much better shooter and scorer at the same age. Bradley basically is a shooter and nothing more and was able to score 15-16 pretty consistently. Now think what murray can do

I'm ok with either murray or brown at 3 but just feel because there is a premium with 3 pt shooting, he is ahead.   You can always find explosive athletes later on in the draft but not good shooters (that are much more than 3 pt specialist/set jump shooters).

There is a chance murray could turn out to be a bust but also a wonderful player.   And his body will improve. 

Btw marcus smart lacks sharp shooting touch and is not explosive (unless has a chance to gather). Murray has a sharp shootin touch and much more explosive. He will be a better finisher around the rim I predict

The problem with this example is that Bradley is an all NBA defensive player. He's on the floor for his defense and he can score 15 points on okay efficiency when given the opportunity. He's a role player offensively and wouldn't even be in the nba if he couldn't defend the way he can. He is also a far superior athlete than Murray and that's how he creates separation and defends the best guards in the league.

[Tr1boy]

If anybody thinks there is a better choice at 3, let me know

And btw with your reasoning include how this player would "fit" under cbs system

[crimson_stallion]

AB has shown without top notch ball handling skills, you can still do loads of damage on the offensive end

And murray is a much better shooter and scorer at the same age. Bradley basically is a shooter and nothing more and was able to score 15-16 pretty consistently. Now think what murray can do

I'm ok with either murray or brown at 3 but just feel because there is a premium with 3 pt shooting, he is ahead.   You can always find explosive athletes later on in the draft but not good shooters (that are much more than 3 pt specialist/set jump shooters).

There is a chance murray could turn out to be a bust but also a wonderful player.   And his body will improve. 

Btw marcus smart lacks sharp shooting touch and is not explosive (unless has a chance to gather). Murray has a sharp shootin touch and much more explosive. He will be a better finisher around the rim I predict

Avery Bradley is an outstanding athlete with elite lateral quickness - it's his defence (which results largely from that quickness) that keeps him on the court.  If Bradley's three point shot was all he offered, then he'd be a backup and a role player at best.

Marcus Smart has no shooting touch, correct.  But he's stronger, he's a better passer, he's a better ball handler, and he's got significantly better length.  I also disagree with you that Murray is more explosive.  Finally Smart is a top shelf defensive player, which (like Bradley) is essentially the talent that keeps him on the court. Once gain if Smart was an average or below average defender, he would be an end of the bench guy.

Everybody you keep mentioning in comparison to Murray has a critical strength that Murray lacks, and this is exactly the problem with Murray.  Take away his three point shooting and he has nothing - absolutely nothing - that makes him look like an NBA player.  You're investing all of your hope into a guy who literally, outside of shooting, is completely average at everything else basketball related.

He's an absolute clone of JJ Reddick in just about every single aspect.  Same height, same weight, similar length, similarly lacking in quickness, similar levels of athleticism, similarly average PG skills, etc.  I'm not hating on Reddick here - the man is a quality shooter and is a legit starting quality shooting guard.  But if you used a #3 pick and ended up with JJ Reddick, I'm pretty sure you'd end up a wee bit disappointed.

I honestly would not be shocked at all if Terry Rozier (taken 16th) ends up a better overall player then Jamal Murray when all is said and done.

I hope to god we don't draft Murray at #3, because if we do then I think there are going to be a lot of very frustrated Boston fans 2-3 years from now...and the teams after us are going to end up with players that are going to make us look real stupid.

I don't think there is a single NBA star in the past 10 years who resembles Murray - I can't think of any.  I'll be pretty surprised if he ever ends up as good as Avery Bradley,

[chambers]

If anybody thinks there is a better choice at 3, let me know

And btw with your reasoning include how this player would "fit" under cbs system

If we are going for a shooter i would prefer Hield over Murray. Better length, better athlete, better nba potential, better defender...but he is 3.5 years old older. Has the 'it' factor and mentality to be a star.

But regarding your 'cbs system' player, explain how murray fits the cbs system when he can't defend a chair?
We want 2 way players don't we?

[crimson_stallion]

If anybody thinks there is a better choice at 3, let me know

And btw with your reasoning include how this player would "fit" under cbs system

Ainge has already said he will take the best player available, regardless of fit.  Therefore your pre-requisite for 'fit' reasoning is ultimately irrelevant.

Anyway here is a list of guys I would take over Murray:

* Bender (don't like him, but I'd take him over Murray)
* Hield (bigger, longer, quicker and more talented version of Murray)
* Dunn (two way guard with explosive athleticism who can play either guard spot)
* Brown (far higher floor and ceiling then Murray has)
* Poeltl (higher floor then Murray, slightly higher ceiling, plays a position of greater need)

That brings us down around the #8 range.  In this range I am pretty 50/50 on whether I'd take Murray of go for a high risk prospect like Chriss or Labissiere - but I would say that in this range Murray is at least worth looking at.  Any earlier then that I wouldn't touch him.

[libermaniac]

I'll start this with the caveat that with the exception of Chriss who doesn't look anywhere near worthy of a #3 pick, when I watch the highlights of any of the other top prospects for the #3 pick, I can see the possibilities.  But, Murray does look impressive.  In addition to his lights out shooting, he just looks like he knows how to score.  He may not have elite quickness, but he seems to have that Paul Pierce ability to fill up the bucket despite not looking super athletic.

That said, this is not an easy choice for Ainge.  So, my preference is to trade down a bit and still get a top 7 pick.

[Celtics4ever]

I'll admit, I am highly skeptical of white American players,

That is ok, I think Ainge is pretty biased against foreign players.  Since being the GM in 2003.   He has drafted 28 players,   4 of them were not American, and only 2 of them never played in the NCAA's.  The ones that he picked only KO has really amounted to  anything.

I just hope LA or Philly make a mistake and take a guy not named Ingram or Simmons.  That would be ideal, if that does not happen, I hope we trade down and get an asset or trade for one of the Philly bigs. 

Ainge has already made a mistake in this regard by being honest about Bender's body having a long way to go.  That hurts us trading down if some team wanted him.  It also weaken the pick for a trade. 

 But it is what it is, I think we should athletically test all the prospects and make them play against proven NBA players or fellow draftees.   Guys who are hiding stuff, have stuff to hide.  That does not mean they cannot play.  A workout is an addition for a team, not vice versa.

[CFAN38]

Quick observation brown and Murray are the only top 8 potential guys to work out so fare with bender likely to come in soon. Given the Cs brought smart in for two workouts I'm tending to think those 3 are the options at #3. I could be wrong and Chriss or another player could come to town soon but the waiting makes me skeptical they are a target of DAs.

[Tr1boy]

-There has been zero news regarding bringing in Hield for a workout.   I don't think he is on the Celtics radar

-Regarding Bender,  Austin Ainge has already stated he has ways to go in the "strength" department.   

[Tr1boy]

Quick observation brown and Murray are the only top 8 potential guys to work out so fare with bender likely to come in soon. Given the Cs brought smart in for two workouts I'm tending to think those 3 are the options at #3. I could be wrong and Chriss or another player could come to town soon but the waiting makes me skeptical they are a target of DAs.

I agree.  You need to come in and pass the 3 min torture test

[Tr1boy]

Jamal Murray defensive highlight clip.  Lateral quickness could improve but the effort is there

I mean we could also talk about defensive problems IT has at times on the court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFAvhABL9nc


clip below will show his ball handling and pg skills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEBEmY6xHHs#t=221.481

[A Future of Stevens]

Jamal Murray defensive highlight clip.  Lateral quickness could improve but the effort is there

I mean we could also talk about defensive problems IT has at times on the court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFAvhABL9nc


clip below will show his ball handling and pg skills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEBEmY6xHHs#t=221.481

I agree in regards to Murray. I think people overestimate slightly his explosive deficiencies. He's more athletic than people give him credit for. If Stevens can get a 5'9 IT to atleast be "proficient" then I have no problems with taking that same gamble on him. Especially because his defensive problems aren't effort wise. I've never been impressed with calliparis ability to get defensive prowess out of his guards.

I'm a little more worried about Murray's handle than his defense.

[konkmv]

Brown skai and maker

[KG Living Legend]

 Beat La it wasn't the outback dunk I was talking about, it was the play right after, a fast break where he finishes with the Dunk.