Jamal Murray. 79/100 threes

[chambers]

I'm torn between Hield and Murray. Both could be lethal scorers with modern NBA range.
Right now I'm leaning towards Buddy because of his size and the sheer volume of threes he hit this year.
They are both work horses and one thing I'm excited about is to get one of these guys in the gym with Marcus Smart and Rozier everyday and feeding off each other to improve their respective offense and defense. I think Marcus' offense could learn a lot playing with Hield or Murray every day and vice versa on the defense.
I give the edge to Hield right now probably, because I do worry about Murrary's athleticism more than Hield's age.
I really worry about Murrary's defensive potential because of his poor length and athleticism, and on the offensive end vs bigger, longer, more athletic guys.

Hield isn't an elite NBA athlete, but he's a very good, well rounded athlete with some nice spring.

Can't say I'll be too disappointed but I see their ceilings as similar but Murray with a much higher bustability factor.

[kozlodoev]

Hield isn't an elite NBA athlete, but he's a very good, well rounded athlete with some nice spring.

I still don't understand why people believe this is true. Everything I've seen about Hield shows that he uses what is practically a set shot -- and because he can't generate any lift, every attempt at going to the basket includes a lot of elusive maneuvering sideways.

This just isn't a good recipe for success in the NBA where players are bigger and more athletic, and defenses are more alert. Unless, of course, you're planning to be a Kyle Korver type and take 70% of your shots from three.

[dreamgreen]

I saw his numbers compared to Curry's numbers and they are extremely close. Not saying he will be Curry but shooting wise he could become close.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Does anybody have any film of Murray finishing with his left hand? I must have watched a couple hours of him and haven't seen it once. That's my only concern with Murray so far. I hope it's something that can be developed.

[mmmmm]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

[Ilikesports17]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

Kyle Wiltjer

[mmmmm]

I don't think they see any of these kids as "now" players. I think they'll draft the player they see with the best upside. The "now" players they figure they'll get thru trades or free agents.

I totally concur.  You don't rely on rookies for 'win now'.  If they help, that's great.  But relying on them is an absolutely stupid strategy.

Draft for talent.  Trade/FA for need.

So the question is who has the most upside? That's subjective, and something only Danny can answer, with input from Stevens.

I think Ainge will take the player he thinks has the most upside. I don't think it will depend on position (i.e, need).

Tough question. The consensus on the Twitter vote I just saw (about 1500 responses) is Bender with about 53%. Nobody else got more than 12-14%.

What Bender has going for him is Porzingis' success in his first year. He has a similar skill set, or at least that's the perception. I think it's a strong consideration for Danny. Most have been surprised at Porzingis' success so soon.

Bender has been extremely high on scout's radar for three years now, ever since he emerged as a 15 year old and especially so after he dominated in the European U18 tournament as a 16 year old.  He has been projected to go extremely high in this (2016) draft since long before Porzingis leaped up last year's draft boards.

If anything, there is probably as much downgrade happening for Bender due to being considered (incorrectly) to be 'riding Porzingis coattails' as there has been uplift.

He legitimately deserves consideration for the #3 pick on his own merits, regardless of Porzingis.  Whether he should BE that pick over the other options is, of course up to Danny to decide.

[mmmmm]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

Kyle Wiltjer

Ah ... so, does anyone think we should draft Wiltjer?  How high?

[Ilikesports17]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

Kyle Wiltjer

Ah ... so, does anyone think we should draft Wiltjer?  How high?

Wiltjer is a 5th year senior, but he can shoot the heck out of the ball. I believe he was a Wooden finalist. He is a terrific college player. Unfortunately he makes Jamaal Murray look like Lebron James athletically.

[kozlodoev]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

Kyle Wiltjer

Ah ... so, does anyone think we should draft Wiltjer?  How high?

Why don't you spend your time and energy reading the thread instead?

[danglertx]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

Kyle Wiltjer

Ah ... so, does anyone think we should draft Wiltjer?  How high?

I think I said in this thread, and others about the draft, we should take Wiltjer in the second round.  He actually rebounded reasonably well if you consider that he played outside and Sabonis gobbled up a ton of rebounds for Gonzaga.  Yes Murray beat Wiltjer by two threes out of 100 but Wiltjer is 6-10 and shot almost 90% from the free throw line.  You have to take a chance on a guy like that.  Maybe he can be serviceable on defense.  If so you have a great floor stretcher for your second team.

[PickNRoll]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

Kyle Wiltjer

Ah ... so, does anyone think we should draft Wiltjer?  How high?

I'd draft him above Bender.  Maybe he'll be there at 58.

[PickNRoll]

This may have been answered already in this thread (coming into it too late to read everything) but who set the 77/100 'record' that Murray broke?

Kyle Wiltjer

Ah ... so, does anyone think we should draft Wiltjer?  How high?

I think I said in this thread, and others about the draft, we should take Wiltjer in the second round.  He actually rebounded reasonably well if you consider that he played outside and Sabonis gobbled up a ton of rebounds for Gonzaga.  Yes Murray beat Wiltjer by two threes out of 100 but Wiltjer is 6-10 and shot almost 90% from the free throw line.  You have to take a chance on a guy like that.  Maybe he can be serviceable on defense.  If so you have a great floor stretcher for your second team.

Wiltjer isn't really an NBA prospect.  You've been trolled.  Certainly not anything more than a late 2nd round flier.  He's slow as molasses.

[ederson]

Bender has been extremely high on scout's radar for three years now, ever since he emerged as a 15 year old and especially so after he dominated in the European U18 tournament as a 16 year old.

"dominated" ?

He  was the best (or second best) player of the 3rd place winner Croatia and member of the all-tournament team ...
U18 2014
Bender (1997)                   29mpg 14ppg   10rpg   5 apg    33% 3p
Charalampopoulos (1997) 36mpg 18ppg   10rpg   3apg     38% 3p
Guven (1996)                    23mpg 14ppg   7rpg
Mussini (1996)                  29mpg  22ppg  4rpg     2apg      43% 3p
Korkmaz (1997)                20mpg  12ppg  3rpg     1.7apg   69% 3p
Sabonis(1996)                  29mpg  16ppg  12rpg   3.5apg
Arapovic(1996)                 25mpg  17ppg  8rpg     2.7apg   37% 3p


2012
Saric
33mpg
1st scorer 27p (the second scorer of the tournament scored 6ppg less)
2nd rebounder 10rpg
MVP
First place winner
That is domination

[mmmmm]

Bender has been extremely high on scout's radar for three years now, ever since he emerged as a 15 year old and especially so after he dominated in the European U18 tournament as a 16 year old.

"dominated" ?

He  was the best (or second best) player of the 3rd place winner Croatia and member of the all-tournament team ...
U18 2014
Bender (1997)                   29mpg 14ppg   10rpg   5 apg    33% 3p
Charalampopoulos (1997) 36mpg 18ppg   10rpg   3apg     38% 3p
Guven (1996)                    23mpg 14ppg   7rpg
Mussini (1996)                  29mpg  22ppg  4rpg     2apg      43% 3p
Korkmaz (1997)                20mpg  12ppg  3rpg     1.7apg   69% 3p
Sabonis(1996)                  29mpg  16ppg  12rpg   3.5apg
Arapovic(1996)                 25mpg  17ppg  8rpg     2.7apg   37% 3p


2012
Saric
33mpg
1st scorer 27p (the second scorer of the tournament scored 6ppg less)
2nd rebounder 10rpg
MVP
First place winner
That is domination

Bad choice of words on my part.  He "played rather well" specifically in key games in each round:
1st round
vs Lithuania (Domantas Sabonis): 34 points, 14 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks in 29 minutes.
2nd round
vs Latvia: 21 points, 17 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks in 33 minutes.
quarterfinal
vs Spain:  18 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 blocks in 27 minutes.
semifinal
vs Turkey:  10 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks in 30 minutes (L)
bronze medal
vs Greece:  14 points, 9 rebounds, 10 assists, 1 block in 32 minutes

I've included the 'meh' game against host Turkey since that was the one loss.

Yes, his overall per-game numbers are more modest than these numbers indicate because the other 1st & 2nd round games were all blow-outs and he didn't need to do much to carry the team.  That brought his tournament per-game numbers down.

This was while Bender was 16 playing against mostly 18 year olds.

Ante Zizic was also on that same Croatian team.  The Lithuania vs Croatia game is notable because it has three bigs for this draft (Bender, Zizic and Sabonis) all in it.

I do agree that the way Saric played was real true domination.  I really wish we had somehow snagged his draft rights.