UPDATE - Bender Scouting Report & Video

[footey]

My biggest concern with Bender is that he lacks the pure explosiveness to be a 25ppg scorer in the NBA.

I think his ultimate best case is some kind of poor man's Nowitzki on offense that can control a game defensively with his length...ala Draymond Green.

There's still plenty of bustability there but i wont be upset if we take him at #3.

How explosive is Pau Gasol?  Would you take Gasol with the third pick?  I would; by a mile. 

Explosiveness is great but there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Bender has length, speed, and other skills to make up for not being explosive (i.e., jumping ability).  Besides, jumping ability is completely overrated.

Do yourself a favor and watch some footage of a 19-year old Pau Gasol in the ACB finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZZETQoe-0U

Yes. This is how explosive a young Gasol was. Against what some folks here like to describe as "grown men" in arguably the best league in Europe.

Okay, and I will compare that to Bender when he reaches the same age as Gasol was in that video.  I will see you in about a year and a half to compare.

Gasol was almost 20 in that video. Bender started this past season as a 17 year old.

And?

Do we seriously have to go over this AGAIN?

Apparently, since people refuse to stop and think. Do you think Bender will become any more explosive over the next one and a half year? Has he really become more explosive over the last one year? Does Gasol look more physically mature to you than Bender in this video? Why do folks think that Gasol, who was picked as a 20-year old ACB finals MVP and a vastly superior player offer any justification for picking Bender?

Come on. Be intellectually honest. a 17-18 year old is not as advanced athletically as a 19-20 year.

I can't think about any 18-year olds who miraculously transformed themselves from average leapers into explosive athletic marvels. This is a red herring. It doesn't happen.

Pau Gasol an explosive leaper? Not that I can recall watching. When a guy has a 9'3" standing reach (like Bender), being able to leap super high is like the least important athletic skill measurement you should concern yourself with. 

[PickNRoll]

My biggest concern with Bender is that he lacks the pure explosiveness to be a 25ppg scorer in the NBA.

I think his ultimate best case is some kind of poor man's Nowitzki on offense that can control a game defensively with his length...ala Draymond Green.

There's still plenty of bustability there but i wont be upset if we take him at #3.

How explosive is Pau Gasol?  Would you take Gasol with the third pick?  I would; by a mile. 

Explosiveness is great but there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Bender has length, speed, and other skills to make up for not being explosive (i.e., jumping ability).  Besides, jumping ability is completely overrated.

Do yourself a favor and watch some footage of a 19-year old Pau Gasol in the ACB finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZZETQoe-0U

Yes. This is how explosive a young Gasol was. Against what some folks here like to describe as "grown men" in arguably the best league in Europe.

Okay, and I will compare that to Bender when he reaches the same age as Gasol was in that video.  I will see you in about a year and a half to compare.

Gasol was almost 20 in that video. Bender started this past season as a 17 year old.

And?

Do we seriously have to go over this AGAIN?

Apparently, since people refuse to stop and think. Do you think Bender will become any more explosive over the next one and a half year? Has he really become more explosive over the last one year? Does Gasol look more physically mature to you than Bender in this video? Why do folks think that Gasol, who was picked as a 20-year old ACB finals MVP and a vastly superior player offer any justification for picking Bender?

Come on. Be intellectually honest. a 17-18 year old is not as advanced athletically as a 19-20 year.

I can't think about any 18-year olds who miraculously transformed themselves from average leapers into explosive athletic marvels. This is a red herring. It doesn't happen.

Pau Gasol an explosive leaper? Not that I can recall watching. When a guy has a 9'3" standing reach (like Bender), being able to leap super high is like the least important athletic skill measurement you should concern yourself with.

Vertical jump matters, not because you need to jump 4 feet to dunk the ball, but because it's indicative of your explosiveness and lower body strength.  Shaq posted a 12'6" vertical (not standing) reach out of college.  He didn't need to reach 12'6" but his measurements showed him as one of the strongest, most explosive and most nimble players ever at his size.  The anti-Bender.  It's the difference between Deandre Jordan and Sean Bradley.

[footey]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2016/6/7/11875748/dragan-bender-coming-to-us-for-workouts-with-celtics-suns-wolves

Good article above, saying that according to Pick, Bender will be working out for 3,4 and 5 teams (Celts, Suns and Wolves). Also suggests that the Wolves might want to work a deal with Boston by trading 5 plus something else (future 1 pick?) for the 3 pick to get Bender.  I could see Boston requesting Dieng and 5 to for the 3, and grabbing Hield at 5. This would give Boston a new starting center in Dieng, and a shooter who could contribute right away in Hield.  We may have to throw in our 23rd pick or another player to make it work (Hunter?), but I might do that deal. I haven't followed Dieng last season, with all of the time that Towns got, not sure where his stock is now.

[footey]

My biggest concern with Bender is that he lacks the pure explosiveness to be a 25ppg scorer in the NBA.

I think his ultimate best case is some kind of poor man's Nowitzki on offense that can control a game defensively with his length...ala Draymond Green.

There's still plenty of bustability there but i wont be upset if we take him at #3.

How explosive is Pau Gasol?  Would you take Gasol with the third pick?  I would; by a mile. 

Explosiveness is great but there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Bender has length, speed, and other skills to make up for not being explosive (i.e., jumping ability).  Besides, jumping ability is completely overrated.

Do yourself a favor and watch some footage of a 19-year old Pau Gasol in the ACB finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZZETQoe-0U

Yes. This is how explosive a young Gasol was. Against what some folks here like to describe as "grown men" in arguably the best league in Europe.

Okay, and I will compare that to Bender when he reaches the same age as Gasol was in that video.  I will see you in about a year and a half to compare.

Gasol was almost 20 in that video. Bender started this past season as a 17 year old.

And?

Do we seriously have to go over this AGAIN?

Apparently, since people refuse to stop and think. Do you think Bender will become any more explosive over the next one and a half year? Has he really become more explosive over the last one year? Does Gasol look more physically mature to you than Bender in this video? Why do folks think that Gasol, who was picked as a 20-year old ACB finals MVP and a vastly superior player offer any justification for picking Bender?

Come on. Be intellectually honest. a 17-18 year old is not as advanced athletically as a 19-20 year.

I can't think about any 18-year olds who miraculously transformed themselves from average leapers into explosive athletic marvels. This is a red herring. It doesn't happen.

Pau Gasol an explosive leaper? Not that I can recall watching. When a guy has a 9'3" standing reach (like Bender), being able to leap super high is like the least important athletic skill measurement you should concern yourself with.

Vertical jump matters, not because you need to jump 4 feet to dunk the ball, but because it's indicative of your explosiveness and lower body strength.  Shaq posted a 12'6" vertical (not standing) reach out of college.  He didn't need to reach 12'6" but his measurements showed him as one of the strongest, most explosive and most nimble players ever at his size.  The anti-Bender.  It's the difference between Deandre Jordan and Sean Bradley.

Sorry, but you're kind of changing the subject. We were talking about the relevance of vertical, and you basically acknowledged it doesn't matter, but explosiveness does.  Don't recall any measurement of Bender's explosiveness.

[PickNRoll]

My biggest concern with Bender is that he lacks the pure explosiveness to be a 25ppg scorer in the NBA.

I think his ultimate best case is some kind of poor man's Nowitzki on offense that can control a game defensively with his length...ala Draymond Green.

There's still plenty of bustability there but i wont be upset if we take him at #3.

How explosive is Pau Gasol?  Would you take Gasol with the third pick?  I would; by a mile. 

Explosiveness is great but there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Bender has length, speed, and other skills to make up for not being explosive (i.e., jumping ability).  Besides, jumping ability is completely overrated.

Do yourself a favor and watch some footage of a 19-year old Pau Gasol in the ACB finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZZETQoe-0U

Yes. This is how explosive a young Gasol was. Against what some folks here like to describe as "grown men" in arguably the best league in Europe.

Okay, and I will compare that to Bender when he reaches the same age as Gasol was in that video.  I will see you in about a year and a half to compare.

Gasol was almost 20 in that video. Bender started this past season as a 17 year old.

And?

Do we seriously have to go over this AGAIN?

Apparently, since people refuse to stop and think. Do you think Bender will become any more explosive over the next one and a half year? Has he really become more explosive over the last one year? Does Gasol look more physically mature to you than Bender in this video? Why do folks think that Gasol, who was picked as a 20-year old ACB finals MVP and a vastly superior player offer any justification for picking Bender?

Come on. Be intellectually honest. a 17-18 year old is not as advanced athletically as a 19-20 year.

I can't think about any 18-year olds who miraculously transformed themselves from average leapers into explosive athletic marvels. This is a red herring. It doesn't happen.

Pau Gasol an explosive leaper? Not that I can recall watching. When a guy has a 9'3" standing reach (like Bender), being able to leap super high is like the least important athletic skill measurement you should concern yourself with.

Vertical jump matters, not because you need to jump 4 feet to dunk the ball, but because it's indicative of your explosiveness and lower body strength.  Shaq posted a 12'6" vertical (not standing) reach out of college.  He didn't need to reach 12'6" but his measurements showed him as one of the strongest, most explosive and most nimble players ever at his size.  The anti-Bender.  It's the difference between Deandre Jordan and Sean Bradley.

Sorry, but you're kind of changing the subject. We were talking about the relevance of vertical, and you basically acknowledged it doesn't matter, but explosiveness does.  Don't recall any measurement of Bender's explosiveness.

Not at all what I said. Vertical does matter because it strongly correlates with explosiveness.  Bender is poor on both counts.

Edit- in addition to the obvious ways it matters

[snively]

My biggest concern with Bender is that he lacks the pure explosiveness to be a 25ppg scorer in the NBA.

I think his ultimate best case is some kind of poor man's Nowitzki on offense that can control a game defensively with his length...ala Draymond Green.

There's still plenty of bustability there but i wont be upset if we take him at #3.

How explosive is Pau Gasol?  Would you take Gasol with the third pick?  I would; by a mile. 

Explosiveness is great but there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Bender has length, speed, and other skills to make up for not being explosive (i.e., jumping ability).  Besides, jumping ability is completely overrated.

Do yourself a favor and watch some footage of a 19-year old Pau Gasol in the ACB finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZZETQoe-0U

Yes. This is how explosive a young Gasol was. Against what some folks here like to describe as "grown men" in arguably the best league in Europe.

Okay, and I will compare that to Bender when he reaches the same age as Gasol was in that video.  I will see you in about a year and a half to compare.

Gasol was almost 20 in that video. Bender started this past season as a 17 year old.

And?

Do we seriously have to go over this AGAIN?

Apparently, since people refuse to stop and think. Do you think Bender will become any more explosive over the next one and a half year? Has he really become more explosive over the last one year? Does Gasol look more physically mature to you than Bender in this video? Why do folks think that Gasol, who was picked as a 20-year old ACB finals MVP and a vastly superior player offer any justification for picking Bender?

Come on. Be intellectually honest. a 17-18 year old is not as advanced athletically as a 19-20 year.

I can't think about any 18-year olds who miraculously transformed themselves from average leapers into explosive athletic marvels. This is a red herring. It doesn't happen.

Pau Gasol an explosive leaper? Not that I can recall watching. When a guy has a 9'3" standing reach (like Bender), being able to leap super high is like the least important athletic skill measurement you should concern yourself with. 

Pau used to be quite explosive, not so much a high flyer as a guy with a quick first step and some power in his base who could drive right by his defender and throw it down in traffic. Slowed down as he put on more weight.

Bender runs well in the open floor but he doesn't have that burst like young Pau did.

[PickNRoll]

My biggest concern with Bender is that he lacks the pure explosiveness to be a 25ppg scorer in the NBA.

I think his ultimate best case is some kind of poor man's Nowitzki on offense that can control a game defensively with his length...ala Draymond Green.

There's still plenty of bustability there but i wont be upset if we take him at #3.

How explosive is Pau Gasol?  Would you take Gasol with the third pick?  I would; by a mile. 

Explosiveness is great but there is more than one way to skin a cat.  Bender has length, speed, and other skills to make up for not being explosive (i.e., jumping ability).  Besides, jumping ability is completely overrated.

Do yourself a favor and watch some footage of a 19-year old Pau Gasol in the ACB finals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZZETQoe-0U

Yes. This is how explosive a young Gasol was. Against what some folks here like to describe as "grown men" in arguably the best league in Europe.

Okay, and I will compare that to Bender when he reaches the same age as Gasol was in that video.  I will see you in about a year and a half to compare.

Gasol was almost 20 in that video. Bender started this past season as a 17 year old.

And?

Do we seriously have to go over this AGAIN?

Apparently, since people refuse to stop and think. Do you think Bender will become any more explosive over the next one and a half year? Has he really become more explosive over the last one year? Does Gasol look more physically mature to you than Bender in this video? Why do folks think that Gasol, who was picked as a 20-year old ACB finals MVP and a vastly superior player offer any justification for picking Bender?

Come on. Be intellectually honest. a 17-18 year old is not as advanced athletically as a 19-20 year.

I can't think about any 18-year olds who miraculously transformed themselves from average leapers into explosive athletic marvels. This is a red herring. It doesn't happen.

Pau Gasol an explosive leaper? Not that I can recall watching. When a guy has a 9'3" standing reach (like Bender), being able to leap super high is like the least important athletic skill measurement you should concern yourself with. 

Pau used to be quite explosive, not so much a high flyer as a guy with a quick first step and some power in his base who could drive right by his defender and throw it down in traffic. Slowed down as he put on more weight.

Bender runs well in the open floor but he doesn't have that burst like young Pau did.

Exactly right.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

It's lazy to assume that because a 17 year, 5 month old guy scored a 27 inch vertical, that he probably would score the same again as an 18 year old, or a 19 year old.

Most bigs don't even do the vertical jump because people overanalyze it, or if they do, they fudge the standing reach so the vertical looks bigger.

Larry Sanders and John Henson are just two examples of guys who had an enormous reach and good athleticism, but only scored about around 28'' to 30'' max vertical, both as 22 year olds.

We wouldn't even be having this conversation if Bender declined to do that portion of the testing and only did measurements.

I'm reminded of that scene in Interstellar when Matt Mcconnaughey asks the teacher what his pant size is and then says, "You mean to tell me that it takes two numbers to measure your own (butt) but only one to measure my son's future?"

[tarheelsxxiii]

Bender seems to have the highest boom/bust potential of any one who has ever played a sport/game/competition of some sort (including the national spelling bee).

[PickNRoll]

It's lazy to assume that because a 17 year, 5 month old guy scored a 27 inch vertical, that he probably would score the same again as an 18 year old, or a 19 year old.

Most bigs don't even do the vertical jump because people overanalyze it, or if they do, they fudge the standing reach so the vertical looks bigger.

Larry Sanders and John Henson are just two examples of guys who had an enormous reach and good athleticism, but only scored about around 28'' to 30'' max vertical, both as 22 year olds.

We wouldn't even be having this conversation if Bender declined to do that portion of the testing and only did measurements.

I'm reminded of that scene in Interstellar when Matt Mcconnaughey asks the teacher what his pant size is and then says, "You mean to tell me that it takes two numbers to measure your own (butt) but only one to measure my son's future?"

100% false.  It isn't lazy at all, it's common sense.  As somebody who was 18 a long time ago, trust me, your vertical leap doesn't get much better than when you're 18.  Your upper body strength will develop well into your 20's.  It's easy to add strength in your chest, back and arms, which makes jumping all the more difficult.

Here's a very clear, empirical study of leaping ability by age.  Note that 17-20 are EXACTLY the same.  Bender will never be a good leaper.

http://www.homeexerciseequipmenthq.com/average-vertical-jump/

[PickNRoll]

Bender seems to have the highest boom/bust potential of any one who has ever played a sport/game/competition of some sort (including the national spelling bee).

The most polarizing bust of all time. 

[Greenback]

Bender is a bigger bust than Fab Melo.  BUST in capital letters.  4.5 ppg 2.6 reb in Isreal for crying out loud.  He would be lucky to start in the D League.

[footey]

We will know in a few years if you are right. Reminds me of all the bold predictions made a year ago about Porzingis.

[Rosco917]

Defensively active, he moves his feet well, and he looks like he has a good motor too. On the offensive end he looks smooth, and gets to where he needs to be. Good handle for a 7' 1" player.

This is the best footage I've ever seen of him.

The question is, are the Celtics willing to let him develop and eventually peak. Or are they intent on "the future is now" type of trade.

[Beat LA]

Does anyone know where that gif is of him trying to guard on the perimeter only to get crossed by some other white guy (sorry, I don't follow Euro ball so I don't know what the dude's name is)?  That was hilarious.