Is this draft over-hyped or is it legit?

[Rondo9]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

[PickNRoll]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

Yes, and that's a fact.  Bargnani's rebound percentage hovered around 10.  Milsap has always been a stud rebounder.  17.5% in his rookie year and as high as 22% as a defensive rebounder.

Bender: 8.5% in EuroLeague and 12.7% in Israeli league.  Deandre Jordan and Dwight Howard were notably absent.

[saltlover]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

Yes, and that's a fact.  Bargnani's rebound percentage hovered around 10.  Milsap has always been a stud rebounder.  17.5% in his rookie year and as high as 22% as a defensive rebounder.

Bender: 8.5% in EuroLeague and 12.7% in Israeli league.  Deandre Jordan and Dwight Howard were notably absent.

Just pointing out with Millsap that his rookie season was his career high in TRB%.  He's been a 13-15% guy the last 7 years.  Normally when someone points out a rookie year as a point of comparison, it's to show how much they've improved since then, not to say "he was great and I'm totally going to ignore the steady but significant decline every year since then of his 10-year career."

[PickNRoll]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

Yes, and that's a fact.  Bargnani's rebound percentage hovered around 10.  Milsap has always been a stud rebounder.  17.5% in his rookie year and as high as 22% as a defensive rebounder.

Bender: 8.5% in EuroLeague and 12.7% in Israeli league.  Deandre Jordan and Dwight Howard were notably absent.

Just pointing out with Millsap that his rookie season was his career high in TRB%.  He's been a 13-15% guy the last 7 years.  Normally when someone points out a rookie year as a point of comparison, it's to show how much they've improved since then, not to say "he was great and I'm totally going to ignore the steady but significant decline every year since then of his 10-year career."

Here's your "steady, significant decline EVERY year", in visual form:

[crimson_stallion]

I fully expect another olowakandi, Bibby, traylor, lafrentz, Jamison, white chocolate draft sequence. Then somebody with a shred of basketball acumen takes the next paul pierce because they aren't into potential, upside, youth, or fancy 7 foot 3 point shooters who can walk and chew gum.  Red will roll over in his grave if we end up with a bender.

No question. Red wouldn't touch the Euromistake with a 10-foot pole.

Right, he would insist on drafting Joe Forte over him. Red was human.

Joe Forte is an improvement over a softer European Kelly Olynyk.

Bender is taller and longer than Olynyk and is also much faster/quicker and by all accounts, not soft. So a tall long quick not soft Kelly Olynyk is actually a pretty great player isn't he?

Not all accounts.  Bender is the walking embodiment of soft.  If you watch the Israeli league games it's hard not to pity him for the way he's bullied and manhandled.  I had to remind myself that he's 18 and technically an adult who is going to have to stand up for himself some day.

every report on his character and how he plays spits in the eye of the bolded statement above. say what you will about bender, lack or motor/effort/toughness are NOT what the reports say.

I have to agree - I'm not a Bender fan at all, but one thing that you can't criticize him for is being emotionally soft.  Everything I've seen suggests that he's a hard working kid with a high motor who isn't afraid to put his body on the line. 

BUT

That only covers the emotional side of things, and having the mental desire to be tough doesn't always translate to having the physical ability to BE tough.  It's that physical ability that concerns me because right now he has the mental toughness, but still gets pushed around like a little girl.

[Rondo9]

I fully expect another olowakandi, Bibby, traylor, lafrentz, Jamison, white chocolate draft sequence. Then somebody with a shred of basketball acumen takes the next paul pierce because they aren't into potential, upside, youth, or fancy 7 foot 3 point shooters who can walk and chew gum.  Red will roll over in his grave if we end up with a bender.

No question. Red wouldn't touch the Euromistake with a 10-foot pole.

Right, he would insist on drafting Joe Forte over him. Red was human.

Joe Forte is an improvement over a softer European Kelly Olynyk.

Bender is taller and longer than Olynyk and is also much faster/quicker and by all accounts, not soft. So a tall long quick not soft Kelly Olynyk is actually a pretty great player isn't he?

Not all accounts.  Bender is the walking embodiment of soft.  If you watch the Israeli league games it's hard not to pity him for the way he's bullied and manhandled.  I had to remind myself that he's 18 and technically an adult who is going to have to stand up for himself some day.

every report on his character and how he plays spits in the eye of the bolded statement above. say what you will about bender, lack or motor/effort/toughness are NOT what the reports say.

I have to agree - I'm not a Bender fan at all, but one thing that you can't criticize him for is being emotionally soft.  Everything I've seen suggests that he's a hard working kid with a high motor who isn't afraid to put his body on the line. 

BUT

That only covers the emotional side of things, and having the mental desire to be tough doesn't always translate to having the physical ability to BE tough.  It's that physical ability that concerns me because right now he has the mental toughness, but still gets pushed around like a little girl.

The man is 18 what makes you think he won't fill out?

[Rondo9]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

Yes, and that's a fact.  Bargnani's rebound percentage hovered around 10.  Milsap has always been a stud rebounder.  17.5% in his rookie year and as high as 22% as a defensive rebounder.

Bender: 8.5% in EuroLeague and 12.7% in Israeli league.  Deandre Jordan and Dwight Howard were notably absent.

Just pointing out with Millsap that his rookie season was his career high in TRB%.  He's been a 13-15% guy the last 7 years.  Normally when someone points out a rookie year as a point of comparison, it's to show how much they've improved since then, not to say "he was great and I'm totally going to ignore the steady but significant decline every year since then of his 10-year career."

Here's your "steady, significant decline EVERY year", in visual form:

Millsap was floundering ever since his rookie year.

[Celtics4ever]

I think there will be some guys who surprise this draft.    I think some guys are over-hyped see Bender.

[ThaPreacher]

I fully expect another olowakandi, Bibby, traylor, lafrentz, Jamison, white chocolate draft sequence. Then somebody with a shred of basketball acumen takes the next paul pierce because they aren't into potential, upside, youth, or fancy 7 foot 3 point shooters who can walk and chew gum.  Red will roll over in his grave if we end up with a bender.

No question. Red wouldn't touch the Euromistake with a 10-foot pole.

Right, he would insist on drafting Joe Forte over him. Red was human.

Joe Johnson was the mistake.  Including him in the Rodgers/Delk trade.  Boston should have simply said "no" or moved another player.  Forte, was more of a bust because of his immaturity.
I don't know if Red was wrong from a talent perspective.  Some of these kids don't handle the pressure.  The D-League today, allows teams to build players.

A few years ago, when everyone was down on Avery Bradley on CelticsBlog,
(and I mean almost everyone), he might have been traded too, if he had worn a Lakers throwback jersey in Boston,

Forte went on to have a good European Career.

Joe Johnson was the big fish that the Celtics let off the hook.

[DarkAzcura]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

Yes, and that's a fact.  Bargnani's rebound percentage hovered around 10.  Milsap has always been a stud rebounder.  17.5% in his rookie year and as high as 22% as a defensive rebounder.

Bender: 8.5% in EuroLeague and 12.7% in Israeli league.  Deandre Jordan and Dwight Howard were notably absent.

Let's wait for Bender's body to develop a bit before writing off his rebounding as Bargs bad. When Bender played competition in his age group, he rebounded pretty well. I can't stress enough that Bender is a high school senior playing in a pro league (one of the best in the world even). Porzingis was a pretty terrible rebounder when he was playing in the ACB at the age of 18 and 19 also. That's the risk with Bender. The Celtics have to see if he has any instinct with the ball, and if he does, his rebounding struggles could be explained away as strength issues which should disappear with a couple years of weight training. Considering his rebounding in the U18 championships and the junior leagues, I think he has some rebounding potential. Can't take a lot away from his numbers in a professional league at the age of a high school senior.

[BornReady]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

Yes, and that's a fact.  Bargnani's rebound percentage hovered around 10.  Milsap has always been a stud rebounder.  17.5% in his rookie year and as high as 22% as a defensive rebounder.

Bender: 8.5% in EuroLeague and 12.7% in Israeli league.  Deandre Jordan and Dwight Howard were notably absent.

Let's wait for Bender's body to develop a bit before writing off his rebounding as Bargs bad. When Bender played competition in his age group, he rebounded pretty well. I can't stress enough that Bender is a high school senior playing in a pro league (one of the best in the world even). Porzingis was a pretty terrible rebounder when he was playing in the ACB at the age of 18 and 19 also. That's the risk with Bender. The Celtics have to see if he has any instinct with the ball, and if he does, his rebounding struggles could be explained away as strength issues which should disappear with a couple years of weight training. Considering his rebounding in the U18 championships and the junior leagues, I think he has some rebounding potential. Can't take a lot away from his numbers in a professional league at the age of a high school senior.

Another concern is that he's not explosive having below average jump for a player his size

Also he will probably play more out at the perimeter so won't get so many offensive rebounds

Boxing out could just be him not being physically developed enough to do so against older stronger players

[tarheelsxxiii]

Vehemently disagree

[wiley]

I fully expect another olowakandi, Bibby, traylor, lafrentz, Jamison, white chocolate draft sequence. Then somebody with a shred of basketball acumen takes the next paul pierce because they aren't into potential, upside, youth, or fancy 7 foot 3 point shooters who can walk and chew gum.  Red will roll over in his grave if we end up with a bender.

I'm just curious who that pierce type player in this draft is?

Dejounte Murray.  Small version of Pierce after he learns to shoot heheh.....

[PickNRoll]

Did you just say that Bender is closer to Baragni as a rebounder?

Yes, and that's a fact.  Bargnani's rebound percentage hovered around 10.  Milsap has always been a stud rebounder.  17.5% in his rookie year and as high as 22% as a defensive rebounder.

Bender: 8.5% in EuroLeague and 12.7% in Israeli league.  Deandre Jordan and Dwight Howard were notably absent.

Just pointing out with Millsap that his rookie season was his career high in TRB%.  He's been a 13-15% guy the last 7 years.  Normally when someone points out a rookie year as a point of comparison, it's to show how much they've improved since then, not to say "he was great and I'm totally going to ignore the steady but significant decline every year since then of his 10-year career."

Here's your "steady, significant decline EVERY year", in visual form:

Millsap was floundering ever since his rookie year.

Lol.  I assume that's sarcasm?