Rumors: Boston Celtics might trade 3rd overall pick in 2016 NBA draft for Okafor

[esel1000]

No ones saying Okafor can't improve on his weaknesses defensively, he very well could.

The problem with Okafor is that he's a guy that HAS to be one of your top two options offensively to be as productive as you need him to be when you invest major resources in him. And a lot of people believe that if Okafor is your #1 or 2 guy, you'll never be good enough to contend. I've yet to hear an argument that Okafor could be the top player on a championship contender in the future. If he can't, you can't invest out best assets in him. It's that simple.

Okafor is a guy whom you have to plan your whole offense and defense around, similarly to Big Al and Lopez. Will he ever be good enough to justify doing that? If you don't believe he can lead your team to a chip, then no, he isn't. Smart is much more adaptable, you don't have to change your entire identity for him. That's the problem with Okafor.

Would you trade one of our beat prospects and our highest draft pick in years for Al Jefferson or Brook Lopez? I wouldn't. And I've yet to see someone convincingly argue he'll be much better than those guys.

Yet to hear an argument that he can be a top player on a contender? How about the fact that he's 20 entering his second year in the league? He isn't a finished product, how do you know for sure what he can't be?

Seriously he's the equivalent of a college sophomore and showed massive offensive potential as a rookie. Let Stevens work with him, I'd love to see what he can do.

[celticsclay]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It's not hate, it is fatigue. He has been discussed ad nauseum and at a certain point people have backlash against hearing the same thing. A trade of the third pick is fair, probably 3rd and rosier. If it happens it happens but it doesn't seem like anyone is going to change their mind. The overwhelming odds are he will not be a Celtic.

[LarBrd33]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It's not hate, it is fatigue. He has been discussed ad nauseum and at a certain point people have backlash against hearing the same thing. A trade of the third pick is fair, probably 3rd and rosier. If it happens it happens but it doesn't seem like anyone is going to change their mind. The overwhelming odds are he will not be a Celtic.

its a unique situation, clay. Typically prospects like Okafor don't go anywhere for several years.  Philly has a situation where they are loaded with desirable players and inevitably will need to trade at least one of them. 

You will keep hearing okafors name as long as Philly has him and Danny is making offers. 

[#1P4P]

Not even going to acknowledge those that doubt Okafor's ability. He's been an elite player at every level and his rookie year was enough to think that he's going to continue that trend. If you want to wait until he puts up 25-12... Well... You're a buy high kind of guy (good thing you're not the GM).

If there's any hesitation on Boston's behalf to make a trade it is because there might be more immediate plans for the pick. Okafor needs another year or 2 in the development stage before becoming the player he projects to be, while this team/fan base is ready to contend. Danny is holding his cards until the draft in case of a Butler or Cousins becomes available.

If a more experienced player doesn't become available, this is going to be a done deal (assuming the #3 pick is the asking price). Wherever he goes, by this time next year, Okafor is going to be worth 2 lottery picks instead of 1. Danny knows value when he sees it and I expect him to buy low on this kid, regardless of if he sees him as a long term piece here or not.

[BDeCosta26]

No ones saying Okafor can't improve on his weaknesses defensively, he very well could.

The problem with Okafor is that he's a guy that HAS to be one of your top two options offensively to be as productive as you need him to be when you invest major resources in him. And a lot of people believe that if Okafor is your #1 or 2 guy, you'll never be good enough to contend. I've yet to hear an argument that Okafor could be the top player on a championship contender in the future. If he can't, you can't invest out best assets in him. It's that simple.

Okafor is a guy whom you have to plan your whole offense and defense around, similarly to Big Al and Lopez. Will he ever be good enough to justify doing that? If you don't believe he can lead your team to a chip, then no, he isn't. Smart is much more adaptable, you don't have to change your entire identity for him. That's the problem with Okafor.

Would you trade one of our beat prospects and our highest draft pick in years for Al Jefferson or Brook Lopez? I wouldn't. And I've yet to see someone convincingly argue he'll be much better than those guys.

Yet to hear an argument that he can be a top player on a contender? How about the fact that he's 20 entering his second year in the league? He isn't a finished product, how do you know for sure what he can't be?

Seriously he's the equivalent of a college sophomore and showed massive offensive potential as a rookie. Let Stevens work with him, I'd love to see what he can do.

Top players on contenders either have to be truly transcendent (I.E. LeBron, Durant, Curry, etc.) or they have to fit perfectly with other top players (KG, PP, Allen or Dirk/Chandler/Terry)

I feel like anyone who's against trading one or two of our best assets for Okafor is being talked about like they think he's a garbage player. For me at least, I don't think that at all. Al Jefferson has had a great career in this league. Okafor will too. He's THAT good at what he does best, scoring on the block.

It's his limitations that make people like me think he's not worth trading #3 and more for him. A guy like Okafor is never going to be a great defender, an elite passer or a top notch rebounder. He could become adequate at those things, but so is Big Al.

Do you think there's any way that Okafor can play major minutes on your team without having the ball in his hands all the time, being the #1 or 2 option on offense? And if you make him the #1 option on offense, do you think eventually he'll be good enough that he can carry your team to contention? If you do, fine, I respect that opinion. If you don't, it makes no sense to trade our best assets for him. It doesn't really matter that much that he's 20. if you don't believe he can improve on his weaknesses enough to be the best player on a contender. If he can't do that, he's not worth the #3 pick.

Okafor will be a good player in this league. That's not really debatable. But would you trade #3 and Smart for a 20 year old Al Jefferson? I wouldn't.

Besides, if Philly keeps him and Noel this year, his price is only gonna drop.

[Hank Finkel]

#3 for Okafor.  Its a no brainer.  A win for both team.  No more talk just do it.

[crimson_stallion]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It wouldn't make a difference if he was on the Celtics - that argument is not even vaguely rational. 

1) This entire thread is about whether or not we should trade for Okafor to MAKE him a Celtci
2) If we did trade for him he would BE a Celtic
3) Based on your logic, if he was a Celtic we would love him
4) Therefore if we liked him as a player, we would want him to be a Celtic

You think I would have ANY issue at all with us trading for Karl Anthony Towns or Andew Wiggins?

Do you think I would say "no they are crap because they aren't Celtics, so I don't want them here"?

Of course not - tell me we're trading for Wiggins or Towns and I will jump for joy.

I don't want Okafor here because I don't like Okafor.  I don't care if he plays for the 76ers, or the Rockets, or the Nets, or the Bulls, or the Lakers, or (shock) the Celtics.  It makes zero difference. I do not like him.

- I do not like his attitude
- I do not like the limitations of his game
- I do not like the fact that he's statistically the worst center in the entire NBA

If he was a Celtic I still wouldn't like his attitude, I still wouldn't like the limitations of his game, I still wouldn't like that he's statistically the worst center in the NBA.

I don't really understand what about that is so difficult to understand. It seems pretty simple to me?

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It really doesn't make sense. It's like their saying Okafor won't improve.

I don't think anybody is saying Okafor won't improve.  At least I never have thought that.  My question is - how much exactly CAN he improve?

I look at Okafor and I see a guy who is almost identical to Al Jefferson both as an offensive player (with the traditional post game) and in terms of physical attributes (similar height, length, build, athleticism). 

However Okafor has two MAJOR red flags right now that hold him back from being on Jefferson's level.

1) The lack of rebounding - Jefferson was a above average rebounder, Okafor is a significantly below average one

2) The defense - Jefferson was an average rebounder, maybe a tad below average.  Okafor is a horrendous defender, as in Enes Kanter bad.

So I look at Okafor and I ask myself..

- Could he one day improve him jumper to be as good as Jefferson's?   Probably.
- Could he one day improve to being an above average rebounder?  Questionable, but maybe.
- Could he one day improve his defense to be at least average? Also questionable, but maybe.

So lets say he works really hard, and he actually makes all of the above improvements to his game - now you have yourself a guy who is pretty much as good as Al Jefferson was in his prime. 

Now this isn't a TERRIBLE thing, since Al Jefferson was pretty good.  He never made an All-Star team, nor did he ever get particularly far in the playoffs.  It's debatable whether he was ever even the best player on his team (Millsap). But he was still a good player, sure.

But then we come to the next part.  Era.

Al Jefferson came into the NBA before small ball was ever really a thing.  When he came into the league, he rarely ever had to run around chasing three point shooting big men.  He rarely ever had to defend more mobile power forwards, which was a good thing because he was never really mobile enough to do so.  He mostly had to defend traditional big men who moved pretty slowly, and who (at the most) might take the occasional 15 footer.

Today's era is a very different one, and if you watch Jefferson play these days you can see he struggles against today's small ball lineups. They kill him.  He's actually not THAT old - he's only in his early 30's.  But he LOOKS older because in today's NBA you have small fowards playing PF, and Power Forwards playing Center, and Jefferson can't defend those guys.

So question is - if Jefferson (in his prime) had to play in the league as it has been for the past 2-3 seasons, would he have fared so well?  If he came into the league as a rookie today, instead of 10+ years ago, would he have been as impressive a rookie? 

This is the concern with Okafor, because as far as I see it the best case scenario for Okafor is that he improves his defense, improves his jumper, improves his rebounding, and eventually becomes as good as a prime Al Jefferson...a guy who struggles in today's NBA.

I look at a guy liek Andre Drummond - he's doing quite well as an old-school big man.  But Drummond is very mobile for a man his size, he's one of the best rebounders in the entire NBA, and he's actually a pretty impressive interior defender. 

Likewise I look at Dwight Howard and think he's doing fine without a modern game - but again he's a mobile big man who can run the floor, who still moves well laterally, who is a very good paint protector, and who still rebounds the ball at an elite level.

i look at Pau Gasol and Marc Gasol - both guys are doing well. Both both of those guys excel because of their all round polish.  Both have been very good defensive players their whole careers, both are outstanding passers, both have great range on their jumpers - Pau is even relatively mobile and can step out to the three point line.

Then there is Demarcus Cousins - but he's a very good ball handler, an outstanding passer, moves well for a man his size, dominates the rebounds, and he's an extremely capable defensive player only let down by questionable motor.

Okafor doesn't have that defense, that passing ability, that ball handling ability, that long jumper, the rebounding.  Despite his (interior dominant) style of play, he doesn't get to the line at a high rate at all. 

Is Okafor doomed to mediocrity?  Of course not.  He could surprise me and make a crazy jump.  He could develop three point range, lose weight and improve his mobility, learn some tips about positioning to improve his rebounding, improve his court feel and become a great passer out of the paint.  None of these things are impossible - but expecting ANYBODY to make those kind of leaps is a big ask.  That's a lot to gamble on.

Guys in the draft are a high risk / high reward because you haven't seen what they can do at the NBA level yet.  They could end up junk...but they could also end up a huge star from day one (e.g. Lillard).  But with Okafor that surprise is gone - you've seen his limitations on an NBA court.  You know he's not a star - at least not now. 

If I'm not going to get a star, then as far as I'm concerned I may as well just gamble on a draft prospect and hope I hit one there.  The whole idea of trading a pick for a player is that you hope to trade upside, for somebody who is real and proven.  Okafor isn't real and proven - his biggest "allure" is still his upside.  So he really gvies you not a whole lot over a draftee.

[LarBrd33]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It wouldn't make a difference if he was on the Celtics - that argument is not even vaguely rational. 

1) This entire thread is about whether or not we should trade for Okafor to MAKE him a Celtci
2) If we did trade for him he would BE a Celtic
3) Based on your logic, if he was a Celtic we would love him

Sorry dude, that's about as far as I got.  But yes... if Okafor becomes a Celtic, I guaran-flippin-tee he'll be an instant favorite.   People liked Rasheed Wallace when he was here.  Dat Green jersey is a powerful inebriant.   It's going to take like 2 preseason games for half this forum to be creating threads wondering if Okafor is the best post player since McHale.

FYI, in terms of EFF, Okafor was a top 20 Center last year.  Top 8 in scoring.  The 3rd best center in the league under the age of 23 in both EFF and PER.   He's 20.  We'd be lucky to get him. 

[crimson_stallion]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It wouldn't make a difference if he was on the Celtics - that argument is not even vaguely rational. 

1) This entire thread is about whether or not we should trade for Okafor to MAKE him a Celtci
2) If we did trade for him he would BE a Celtic
3) Based on your logic, if he was a Celtic we would love him

Sorry dude, that's about as far as I got.  But yes... if Okafor becomes a Celtic, I guaran-flippin-tee he'll be an instant favorite.   People liked Rasheed Wallace when he was here.  Dat Green jersey is a powerful inebriant.   It's going to take like 2 preseason games for half this forum to be creating threads wondering if Okafor is the best post player since McHale.

Rasheed Wallace was one of the best defensvie bigs in the NBA in his prime.  He could score in the paint, he could shoot from midrange, he could step out and hit the three, he could pass, he could rebound, he could block shots, he was extremely mobile.

Even as an old timer on the Celtics, Wallace still played hard on defense, and he still gave us an inside/out offensive presence.  It was easy to appreciate that he gave what he had - even if he didn't have a whole lot left.  It was easier to respect him knowing that no matter how far he may have fallen, he was once a powerhouse who proved himself in this league.

Same is true of Shaq.  He may have been a shadow of his former self, but you expect that of a 38 year old 300+ pound seven footer.  I still respected him because he's been there - he's won the rings, he's dominated the league, he has proven his worth as a three way (offense, defense, boards) player.

Okafor hasn't proven a darn thing.  I'm not giving him respect or making excuses for him - he hasn't earned that.  If he wants my respect, then he needs to go out there and earn it by proving he can do more then just score in the post. 

When he can go out and prove that, THEN I will change my tune about him and give him some respect- no matter which team he is playing for,

[LarBrd33]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It wouldn't make a difference if he was on the Celtics - that argument is not even vaguely rational. 

1) This entire thread is about whether or not we should trade for Okafor to MAKE him a Celtci
2) If we did trade for him he would BE a Celtic
3) Based on your logic, if he was a Celtic we would love him

Sorry dude, that's about as far as I got.  But yes... if Okafor becomes a Celtic, I guaran-flippin-tee he'll be an instant favorite.   People liked Rasheed Wallace when he was here.  Dat Green jersey is a powerful inebriant.   It's going to take like 2 preseason games for half this forum to be creating threads wondering if Okafor is the best post player since McHale.

Rasheed Wallace was one of the best defensvie bigs in the NBA in his prime.  He could score in the paint, he could shoot from midrange, he could step out and hit the three, he could pass, he could rebound, he could block shots, he was extremely mobile.

Even as an old timer on the Celtics, Wallace still played hard on defense, and he still gave us an inside/out offensive presence.  It was easy to appreciate that he gave what he had - even if he didn't have a whole lot left.  It was easier to respect him knowing that no matter how far he may have fallen, he was once a powerhouse who proved himself in this league.

Same is true of Shaq.  He may have been a shadow of his former self, but you expect that of a 38 year old 300+ pound seven footer.  I still respected him because he's been there - he's won the rings, he's dominated the league, he has proven his worth as a three way (offense, defense, boards) player.

Okafor hasn't proven a darn thing.  I'm not giving him respect or making excuses for him - he hasn't earned that.  If he wants my respect, then he needs to go out there and earn it by proving he can do more then just score in the post. 

When he can go out and prove that, THEN I will change my tune about him and give him some respect- no matter which team he is playing for,

Lol.  Dude, is this just some kind of reverse jinx, because you dont' want to get your hopes up?

I dunno if we'll be able to acquire Okafor for a package built around the #3 pick, but I sure as heck would be happy if we did. 

I know a lot of these threads focus on people dumping on prospects like Bender (who are likely inferior to Okafor) or highlighting how our own rookies have been dreadful by the standards Okafor is held to.  I don't really care at this point.  It's pretty clear Danny will try to grab Okafor if he's made available.  Hopefully he pulls it off.  Obviously nothing will happen until it's our time to draft, because Ainge needs to do his due dilligence and wait to see if Simmons or Ingram falls.  So let's just wait to see if Ainge is successful in getting Okafor after a year of trying.  We need size. Okafor is an exciting prospect.  I can see why someone might sell themselves on the intrigue of a guy like Buddy Hield, but that dude is 3 years older than Okafor and from what I understand, is just as one-dimensional a player who probably will not even be able to get his offense on the NBA level. 

It'd would be pretty funny if we drafted a guard, Smart took a leap and Rozier showed some real ability.  Suddenly we'd have those 3 guards + Bradley + Thomas.  Suddenly, we'd find ourselves in a similar situation as Philly and needing to inevitably cut ties with a guard to add depth at different positions.    Philly is loaded with bigs right now.  We'd be lucky to have any of them.  If Okafor is the one they decide to move, let's pounce.

I honestly think it's bizarre someone can say things like "Okafor hasn't proven anything to earn my respect" what advocating keeping a draft pick that is going to net a player who has literally not played a minute in the NBA and doesn't project to even have star potential.   Makes no sense.  Okafor has arguably proven more than any player in this draft on both the NCAA and NBA level.

[Future Celtics Owner]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It wouldn't make a difference if he was on the Celtics - that argument is not even vaguely rational. 

1) This entire thread is about whether or not we should trade for Okafor to MAKE him a Celtci
2) If we did trade for him he would BE a Celtic
3) Based on your logic, if he was a Celtic we would love him
4) Therefore if we liked him as a player, we would want him to be a Celtic

You think I would have ANY issue at all with us trading for Karl Anthony Towns or Andew Wiggins?

Do you think I would say "no they are crap because they aren't Celtics, so I don't want them here"?

Of course not - tell me we're trading for Wiggins or Towns and I will jump for joy.

I don't want Okafor here because I don't like Okafor.  I don't care if he plays for the 76ers, or the Rockets, or the Nets, or the Bulls, or the Lakers, or (shock) the Celtics.  It makes zero difference. I do not like him.

- I do not like his attitude
- I do not like the limitations of his game
- I do not like the fact that he's statistically the worst center in the entire NBA

If he was a Celtic I still wouldn't like his attitude, I still wouldn't like the limitations of his game, I still wouldn't like that he's statistically the worst center in the NBA.

I don't really understand what about that is so difficult to understand. It seems pretty simple to me?

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It really doesn't make sense. It's like their saying Okafor won't improve.

I don't think anybody is saying Okafor won't improve.  At least I never have thought that.  My question is - how much exactly CAN he improve?

I look at Okafor and I see a guy who is almost identical to Al Jefferson both as an offensive player (with the traditional post game) and in terms of physical attributes (similar height, length, build, athleticism). 

However Okafor has two MAJOR red flags right now that hold him back from being on Jefferson's level.

1) The lack of rebounding - Jefferson was a above average rebounder, Okafor is a significantly below average one

2) The defense - Jefferson was an average rebounder, maybe a tad below average.  Okafor is a horrendous defender, as in Enes Kanter bad.

So I look at Okafor and I ask myself..

- Could he one day improve him jumper to be as good as Jefferson's?   Probably.
- Could he one day improve to being an above average rebounder?  Questionable, but maybe.
- Could he one day improve his defense to be at least average? Also questionable, but maybe.

So lets say he works really hard, and he actually makes all of the above improvements to his game - now you have yourself a guy who is pretty much as good as Al Jefferson was in his prime. 

Now this isn't a TERRIBLE thing, since Al Jefferson was pretty good.  He never made an All-Star team, nor did he ever get particularly far in the playoffs.  It's debatable whether he was ever even the best player on his team (Millsap). But he was still a good player, sure.

But then we come to the next part.  Era.

Al Jefferson came into the NBA before small ball was ever really a thing.  When he came into the league, he rarely ever had to run around chasing three point shooting big men.  He rarely ever had to defend more mobile power forwards, which was a good thing because he was never really mobile enough to do so.  He mostly had to defend traditional big men who moved pretty slowly, and who (at the most) might take the occasional 15 footer.

Today's era is a very different one, and if you watch Jefferson play these days you can see he struggles against today's small ball lineups. They kill him.  He's actually not THAT old - he's only in his early 30's.  But he LOOKS older because in today's NBA you have small fowards playing PF, and Power Forwards playing Center, and Jefferson can't defend those guys.

So question is - if Jefferson (in his prime) had to play in the league as it has been for the past 2-3 seasons, would he have fared so well?  If he came into the league as a rookie today, instead of 10+ years ago, would he have been as impressive a rookie? 

This is the concern with Okafor, because as far as I see it the best case scenario for Okafor is that he improves his defense, improves his jumper, improves his rebounding, and eventually becomes as good as a prime Al Jefferson...a guy who struggles in today's NBA.

I look at a guy liek Andre Drummond - he's doing quite well as an old-school big man.  But Drummond is very mobile for a man his size, he's one of the best rebounders in the entire NBA, and he's actually a pretty impressive interior defender. 

Likewise I look at Dwight Howard and think he's doing fine without a modern game - but again he's a mobile big man who can run the floor, who still moves well laterally, who is a very good paint protector, and who still rebounds the ball at an elite level.

i look at Pau Gasol and Marc Gasol - both guys are doing well. Both both of those guys excel because of their all round polish.  Both have been very good defensive players their whole careers, both are outstanding passers, both have great range on their jumpers - Pau is even relatively mobile and can step out to the three point line.

Then there is Demarcus Cousins - but he's a very good ball handler, an outstanding passer, moves well for a man his size, dominates the rebounds, and he's an extremely capable defensive player only let down by questionable motor.

Okafor doesn't have that defense, that passing ability, that ball handling ability, that long jumper, the rebounding.  Despite his (interior dominant) style of play, he doesn't get to the line at a high rate at all. 

Is Okafor doomed to mediocrity?  Of course not.  He could surprise me and make a crazy jump.  He could develop three point range, lose weight and improve his mobility, learn some tips about positioning to improve his rebounding, improve his court feel and become a great passer out of the paint.  None of these things are impossible - but expecting ANYBODY to make those kind of leaps is a big ask.  That's a lot to gamble on.

Guys in the draft are a high risk / high reward because you haven't seen what they can do at the NBA level yet.  They could end up junk...but they could also end up a huge star from day one (e.g. Lillard).  But with Okafor that surprise is gone - you've seen his limitations on an NBA court.  You know he's not a star - at least not now. 

If I'm not going to get a star, then as far as I'm concerned I may as well just gamble on a draft prospect and hope I hit one there.  The whole idea of trading a pick for a player is that you hope to trade upside, for somebody who is real and proven.  Okafor isn't real and proven - his biggest "allure" is still his upside.  So he really gvies you not a whole lot over a draftee.

I don't think you have looked over the measurements of these players. Okafor is longer than all of them except Cousins, minus 2 inches on standing reach.

Also Okafor handles the ball very well for a BIG. Watch some video, or watch the video I said to watch and posted in the link.

Al Jefferson was never as strong or as built as Okafor nor does he have the length that Okafor has. 2nd year Al Jefferson wouldnt hold up against first year Okafor.

I'm tired of arguing that this guy is 20 and a solid 280 lbs but nimble, so of course he is going to have some problems his rookie year on rotations and such. But he impressed the hell out of me the way he composed himself in the paint, years ahead of anyone else.

The dude has a very nice stroke and IMO it will be deadly from 10-15ft, he has the ability to go straight up and defend the paint, he can get other bigs in foul trouble, he can stay on the floor late in the game, he will get faster, stronger, quicker.....hopefully on the Celtics bc for the #3 pick it's a steal.

[CoachBo]

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It wouldn't make a difference if he was on the Celtics - that argument is not even vaguely rational. 

1) This entire thread is about whether or not we should trade for Okafor to MAKE him a Celtci
2) If we did trade for him he would BE a Celtic
3) Based on your logic, if he was a Celtic we would love him
4) Therefore if we liked him as a player, we would want him to be a Celtic

You think I would have ANY issue at all with us trading for Karl Anthony Towns or Andew Wiggins?

Do you think I would say "no they are crap because they aren't Celtics, so I don't want them here"?

Of course not - tell me we're trading for Wiggins or Towns and I will jump for joy.

I don't want Okafor here because I don't like Okafor.  I don't care if he plays for the 76ers, or the Rockets, or the Nets, or the Bulls, or the Lakers, or (shock) the Celtics.  It makes zero difference. I do not like him.

- I do not like his attitude
- I do not like the limitations of his game
- I do not like the fact that he's statistically the worst center in the entire NBA

If he was a Celtic I still wouldn't like his attitude, I still wouldn't like the limitations of his game, I still wouldn't like that he's statistically the worst center in the NBA.

I don't really understand what about that is so difficult to understand. It seems pretty simple to me?

Again...

People on this board blow my mind sometimes.  The same people who are crying Bender instead of Okafor are the same people who thought we struck gold with James Young, they're the same people who thought Cousins donning green is a negative, they are the same people who thought R.J Hunter is the best thing since sliced bread.  I mean, the "logic" of these people...smh.

To go for Bender when you have a chance at Okafor is asinine.  It's just plain crazy.  There is very little to this guy, Bender.  I just don't see it, just like I didn't see with James Young or R.J Hunter.

Bender instead of Okafor?  What is wrong with people?  Jeez.

Okafor averaged 17.5 pts and 7rbd as a f'ing rookie for godssakes....AS A ROOKIE!

Man, I'm glad some folks here aren't running the Celtics Organization.  Opportunity would be smackin' folks in the face and kicking them in the nuts and they still wouldn't see it.  Unbelievable.

Ah yes, the 'ole "people who disagree with me must just be dumb!" argument

People here value different things in a player.  Those people also have different views of how a player will turn out.

Any proof on the people that want Bender also like James Young, hate Cousins, and love Hunter?  Because somehow I doubt it.

Look at Okafor.  He averages fewer rebounds/36 minutes than Tyler Zeller.  He's a slow, hulking 5 that can't play D and can't rebound.  He's an amazing post scorer, but he's a one-dimensional player.  Is it that crazy for people to want to take a flyer on somebody that has the potential to be a good two-way player in this league, with positional versatility and an outside game to boot?

Anyone saying that Bender is a surefire star is wrong, but so are people saying that he's a surefire bust or that Okafor is guaranteed to be a star.  We don't know how any player is gonna end up, and just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them "crazy" or stupid

Reason is not subjective.

And the future is not set in stone

Please dear GOD imagine what our organization and CBS would do with a player with his gifts.
Just watch this video and tell me he does not have a nice stroke and potential. Please keep in mind how big he is 280lbs and 7'6.25'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach, huge hands....and he is a very young rookie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

Also TP for anyone who can tell me how to post the actual vid on here instead of a link to it like the good ole' days.

The hate for Okafor is funny.  If he put up those kind of stats as a rookie on the Celtics, people would be comparing him to hall of famers already.

It really doesn't make sense. It's like their saying Okafor won't improve.

I don't think anybody is saying Okafor won't improve.  At least I never have thought that.  My question is - how much exactly CAN he improve?

I look at Okafor and I see a guy who is almost identical to Al Jefferson both as an offensive player (with the traditional post game) and in terms of physical attributes (similar height, length, build, athleticism). 

However Okafor has two MAJOR red flags right now that hold him back from being on Jefferson's level.

1) The lack of rebounding - Jefferson was a above average rebounder, Okafor is a significantly below average one

2) The defense - Jefferson was an average rebounder, maybe a tad below average.  Okafor is a horrendous defender, as in Enes Kanter bad.

So I look at Okafor and I ask myself..

- Could he one day improve him jumper to be as good as Jefferson's?   Probably.
- Could he one day improve to being an above average rebounder?  Questionable, but maybe.
- Could he one day improve his defense to be at least average? Also questionable, but maybe.

So lets say he works really hard, and he actually makes all of the above improvements to his game - now you have yourself a guy who is pretty much as good as Al Jefferson was in his prime. 

Now this isn't a TERRIBLE thing, since Al Jefferson was pretty good.  He never made an All-Star team, nor did he ever get particularly far in the playoffs.  It's debatable whether he was ever even the best player on his team (Millsap). But he was still a good player, sure.

But then we come to the next part.  Era.

Al Jefferson came into the NBA before small ball was ever really a thing.  When he came into the league, he rarely ever had to run around chasing three point shooting big men.  He rarely ever had to defend more mobile power forwards, which was a good thing because he was never really mobile enough to do so.  He mostly had to defend traditional big men who moved pretty slowly, and who (at the most) might take the occasional 15 footer.

Today's era is a very different one, and if you watch Jefferson play these days you can see he struggles against today's small ball lineups. They kill him.  He's actually not THAT old - he's only in his early 30's.  But he LOOKS older because in today's NBA you have small fowards playing PF, and Power Forwards playing Center, and Jefferson can't defend those guys.

So question is - if Jefferson (in his prime) had to play in the league as it has been for the past 2-3 seasons, would he have fared so well?  If he came into the league as a rookie today, instead of 10+ years ago, would he have been as impressive a rookie? 

This is the concern with Okafor, because as far as I see it the best case scenario for Okafor is that he improves his defense, improves his jumper, improves his rebounding, and eventually becomes as good as a prime Al Jefferson...a guy who struggles in today's NBA.

I look at a guy liek Andre Drummond - he's doing quite well as an old-school big man.  But Drummond is very mobile for a man his size, he's one of the best rebounders in the entire NBA, and he's actually a pretty impressive interior defender. 

Likewise I look at Dwight Howard and think he's doing fine without a modern game - but again he's a mobile big man who can run the floor, who still moves well laterally, who is a very good paint protector, and who still rebounds the ball at an elite level.

i look at Pau Gasol and Marc Gasol - both guys are doing well. Both both of those guys excel because of their all round polish.  Both have been very good defensive players their whole careers, both are outstanding passers, both have great range on their jumpers - Pau is even relatively mobile and can step out to the three point line.

Then there is Demarcus Cousins - but he's a very good ball handler, an outstanding passer, moves well for a man his size, dominates the rebounds, and he's an extremely capable defensive player only let down by questionable motor.

Okafor doesn't have that defense, that passing ability, that ball handling ability, that long jumper, the rebounding.  Despite his (interior dominant) style of play, he doesn't get to the line at a high rate at all. 

Is Okafor doomed to mediocrity?  Of course not.  He could surprise me and make a crazy jump.  He could develop three point range, lose weight and improve his mobility, learn some tips about positioning to improve his rebounding, improve his court feel and become a great passer out of the paint.  None of these things are impossible - but expecting ANYBODY to make those kind of leaps is a big ask.  That's a lot to gamble on.

Guys in the draft are a high risk / high reward because you haven't seen what they can do at the NBA level yet.  They could end up junk...but they could also end up a huge star from day one (e.g. Lillard).  But with Okafor that surprise is gone - you've seen his limitations on an NBA court.  You know he's not a star - at least not now. 

If I'm not going to get a star, then as far as I'm concerned I may as well just gamble on a draft prospect and hope I hit one there.  The whole idea of trading a pick for a player is that you hope to trade upside, for somebody who is real and proven.  Okafor isn't real and proven - his biggest "allure" is still his upside.  So he really gvies you not a whole lot over a draftee.

I don't think you have looked over the measurements of these players. Okafor is longer than all of them except Cousins, minus 2 inches on standing reach.

Also Okafor handles the ball very well for a BIG. Watch some video, or watch the video I said to watch and posted in the link.

Al Jefferson was never as strong or as built as Okafor nor does he have the length that Okafor has. 2nd year Al Jefferson wouldnt hold up against first year Okafor.

I'm tired of arguing that this guy is 20 and a solid 280 lbs but nimble, so of course he is going to have some problems his rookie year on rotations and such. But he impressed the hell out of me the way he composed himself in the paint, years ahead of anyone else.

The dude has a very nice stroke and IMO it will be deadly from 10-15ft, he has the ability to go straight up and defend the paint, he can get other bigs in foul trouble, he can stay on the floor late in the game, he will get faster, stronger, quicker.....hopefully on the Celtics bc for the #3 pick it's a steal.

Good post. TP.

There are an awful lot of wild distortions of Okafor's ability on this board.

Just as there are conflations of Dragan Bender's.

[Celtics4ever]

I know a lot of these threads focus on people dumping on prospects like Bender (who are likely inferior to Okafor) or highlighting how our own rookies have been dreadful by the standards Okafor is held to

Big difference between pointing out his production does not merit a top pick on Bender and just blatant dumping.   My issue is guys stating he is the real deal with little production and acting like he is Bill Russell in videos where he moves around but gets little done.   No lift, no strength, big warning signs yet guys seem oblivious.

I would rather take a flyer on a guy who has went 17 and 8 in the NBA, than a kid who could went 4 and 4 in the Israeli league and mired on the bench.  One is proven, one has potential though I would argue not as much as people think.   I said it about Sully long ago, Bender's athletic base is worse, and this limits his potential.   

I think the kid can get stronger, his vertical is what concerns me and good players play, period.   If your good, you will get minutes regardless of age.   

[LarBrd33]

I know a lot of these threads focus on people dumping on prospects like Bender (who are likely inferior to Okafor) or highlighting how our own rookies have been dreadful by the standards Okafor is held to

Big difference between pointing out his production does not merit a top pick on Bender and just blatant dumping.   My issue is guys stating he is the real deal with little production and acting like he is Bill Russell in videos where he moves around but gets little done.   No lift, no strength, big warning signs yet guys seem oblivious.

I would rather take a flyer on a guy who has went 17 and 8 in the NBA, than a kid who could went 4 and 4 in the Israeli league and mired on the bench.  One is proven, one has potential though I would argue not as much as people think.   I said it about Sully long ago, Bender's athletic base is worse, and this limits his potential.   

I think the kid can get stronger, his vertical is what concerns me and good players play, period.   If your good, you will get minutes regardless of age.

Yeah I just think it's funny that people act like Okafor is trash after averaging 18 and 7 as a rookie in just 30mpg.  He's a year removed from winning a national championship, has legitimate size, and clearly has one of the most versatile offensive games we've seen out of a big man prospect in years.  We have every reason to believe he'll continue to improve and if you look at other bigs like DeMarcus Cousins, Andre Drummond, Anthony Davis, etc - they seem to improve pretty dramatically after a year or two.  Cousins averaged 14 and 8 as a rookie... now he averages 27 and 12.   Davis averaged 13 and 8 as a rookie... now he averages 24 and 10.   Drummond averaged 8 and 7 as a rookie, now he averages 16 and 15. 

My question is, what kind of production do people really expect out of the #3 pick on his rookie year and how will that compare to Okafor's 18 and 7?

Buddy Hield might be a lesser prospect than Doug McDermott.  McDermott averaged 3 points, 1.2 rebounds, 0.2 assists, with 40%/31%/67% shooting as a rookie.  Is that the kind of production we'd rather have?

Is JJ Reddick a better example?  He averaged 6 points, 1.2 rebounds, 0.9 assists with 41%/38%/90% shooting as a rookie.  Better?

I hear Jalen Brown is a poor man's Justice Winslow.  Winslow put up solid numbers of 6.4 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.5 assists with 42%/27%/68% shooting.   Is that much better than Okafor?

From what I understand, Dragan Bender compares well with Yi Jianlian.  Yi averaged 8.6 points, 5.2 rebounds, 0.8 assists with 42%/28%/84% shooting.   Is that the kind of expectations you have for our rookie next year?

Fans think Okafor is a garbage, but have no problem defending Marcus Smart.  Smart is two years into a career averaging 8.4 points, 3.1 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.5 steals with 35%/29%/72% shooting.  Is that the golden standard for young players? 

[Ilikesports17]

I know a lot of these threads focus on people dumping on prospects like Bender (who are likely inferior to Okafor) or highlighting how our own rookies have been dreadful by the standards Okafor is held to

Big difference between pointing out his production does not merit a top pick on Bender and just blatant dumping.   My issue is guys stating he is the real deal with little production and acting like he is Bill Russell in videos where he moves around but gets little done.   No lift, no strength, big warning signs yet guys seem oblivious.

I would rather take a flyer on a guy who has went 17 and 8 in the NBA, than a kid who could went 4 and 4 in the Israeli league and mired on the bench.  One is proven, one has potential though I would argue not as much as people think.   I said it about Sully long ago, Bender's athletic base is worse, and this limits his potential.   

I think the kid can get stronger, his vertical is what concerns me and good players play, period.   If your good, you will get minutes regardless of age.

Yeah I just think it's funny that people act like Okafor is trash after averaging 18 and 7 as a rookie in just 30mpg.  He's a year removed from winning a national championship, has legitimate size, and clearly has one of the most versatile offensive games we've seen out of a big man prospect in years.  We have every reason to believe he'll continue to improve and if you look at other bigs like DeMarcus Cousins, Andre Drummond, Anthony Davis, etc - they seem to improve pretty dramatically after a year or two.  Cousins averaged 14 and 8 as a rookie... now he averages 27 and 12.   Davis averaged 13 and 8 as a rookie... now he averages 24 and 10.   Drummond averaged 8 and 7 as a rookie, now he averages 16 and 15. 

My question is, what kind of production do people really expect out of the #3 pick on his rookie year and how will that compare to Okafor's 18 and 7?

Buddy Hield might be a lesser prospect than Doug McDermott.  McDermott averaged 3 points, 1.2 rebounds, 0.2 assists, with 40%/31%/67% shooting as a rookie.  Is that the kind of production we'd rather have?

Is JJ Reddick a better example?  He averaged 6 points, 1.2 rebounds, 0.9 assists with 41%/38%/90% shooting as a rookie.  Better?

I hear Jalen Brown is a poor man's Justice Winslow.  Winslow put up solid numbers of 6.4 points, 5.2 rebounds, 1.5 assists with 42%/27%/68% shooting.   Is that much better than Okafor?

From what I understand, Dragan Bender compares well with Yi Jianlian.  Yi averaged 8.6 points, 5.2 rebounds, 0.8 assists with 42%/28%/84% shooting.   Is that the kind of expectations you have for our rookie next year?

Fans think Okafor is a garbage, but have no problem defending Marcus Smart.  Smart is two years into a career averaging 8.4 points, 3.1 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.5 steals with 35%/29%/72% shooting.  Is that the golden standard for young players?

I believe context always matters. Allow me to supply some. On a better Philly team, Michael Carter Williams, also a rookie, averaged 17 and 6. So in all his Godly rookieness Jahlil grabbed 1 more rebound and scored one more point per game. Worth noting Carter Williams also dished 6 assists. That year Spencer Hawes averaged 9 rebounds a game and the next year, Tony Wroten average 17 a game (just through 30 games when he tore his ACL). Stats on Philly dont mean Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..

jaylen Brown is not a poor mans Justice Winslow.
Bender is not Yi Janlian
Hield might be worse than McDermott... He might also be better

Let me be clear I don't have high hopes for any rookies to come in and dominate right away or even be particularly good. However if you can't realize that Okafors 18 and 7 is pretty unique then idk what to tell you.

He's on Philly and someone has to score points. Then compound that with him getting into fights etc which drops his value a bit. Then he has the knee issue. Then add to that that all of his flaws coming out of college were as advertised (still a bad rebounder and defender) and advanced stats see him as like the worst player in the NBA. All that doesn't even account for the fact that his skill set is really difficult to work into a lineup. This is why guys like Greg Monroe Al Jefferson and Brook Lopez have all largely spent their careers on lottery teams. none of those guys are perfect comps, but the point remains the same regardless.

All that being said, I'd have a hard time turning down Okafor for #3.