It's just that offense wins basketball games

[hodgy03038]

Sorry I haven't read this entire thread but the title makes me comment.

The old saying goes...

Offense wins games but defense wins championships.

Now, think about last year GSW won and who was the MVP? Iguodala and it wasn't for offense - it was his defense on LBJ.

The Broncos just won the Super Bowl and I would say that defense won that championship as well.

Just my 2 cents.

[Vermont Green]

When I read that I think you don't have a proper appreciation for tony,  Manu,  and Timmy.

I'd say in 2013 and 2014 it was more about their amazing ball movement and overall execution, but they still got excellent throwback games at key times from those three, plus Kawhi blossoming into a great two way player.

Well, that was not my intent to downplay those guys.  I actually feel Tony Parker in particular has been underrated for the most part.  I once got torched on this site for suggesting I would trade Rondo for Parker and that the big 3 era Celtics would have been much better for it.

But Parker cannot make plays like Curry or say the old Isiah Thomas or other dominant point guards (there have not been all that many).  Parker makes plays for sure.  Same for Manu and Duncan.  They are great players.  Manu is a shot maker but more at the Ray Allen level than the true elites.  Duncan is an elite player (or used to be) but he is not an elite shot maker.  He could do his damage but if you put him on a team that put more emphasis on him making the big shots, that would not have been as successful.

I still don't get why everyone (well I guess not everyone) is jumping on what seems to me to be pretty obvious.  San Antonio has been a great team with great players but none of the players were individually elite shot makers.  Most title teams have had the elite shot maker.  Our two current finalists each have an elite shot maker.

I think Durant qualifies as an elite shot maker but so far, he has not been able to do it at the level of Curry or LeBron.  Westbrook is close but not quite there.  Toronto has no one I would categorize as elite nor did they have any players that are elite in other ways such as Tim Duncan.

If this opinion make you want to take crazy pills, I don't know what to say.  I don't think I am crazy and it doesn't seem like this should be all that hard of a point to describe but maybe i am just not that good of a writer.

[PickNRoll]

When I read that I think you don't have a proper appreciation for tony,  Manu,  and Timmy.

I'd say in 2013 and 2014 it was more about their amazing ball movement and overall execution, but they still got excellent throwback games at key times from those three, plus Kawhi blossoming into a great two way player.

Well, that was not my intent to downplay those guys.  I actually feel Tony Parker in particular has been underrated for the most part.  I once got torched on this site for suggesting I would trade Rondo for Parker and that the big 3 era Celtics would have been much better for it.

But Parker cannot make plays like Curry or say the old Isiah Thomas or other dominant point guards (there have not been all that many).  Parker makes plays for sure.  Same for Manu and Duncan.  They are great players.  Manu is a shot maker but more at the Ray Allen level than the true elites.  Duncan is an elite player (or used to be) but he is not an elite shot maker.  He could do his damage but if you put him on a team that put more emphasis on him making the big shots, that would not have been as successful.

I still don't get why everyone (well I guess not everyone) is jumping on what seems to me to be pretty obvious.  San Antonio has been a great team with great players but none of the players were individually elite shot makers.  Most title teams have had the elite shot maker.  Our two current finalists each have an elite shot maker.

I think Durant qualifies as an elite shot maker but so far, he has not been able to do it at the level of Curry or LeBron.  Westbrook is close but not quite there.  Toronto has no one I would categorize as elite nor did they have any players that are elite in other ways such as Tim Duncan.

If this opinion make you want to take crazy pills, I don't know what to say.  I don't think I am crazy and it doesn't seem like this should be all that hard of a point to describe but maybe i am just not that good of a writer.

"Parker can't make plays like Curry."

There are a lot of possible meanings.  Does Parker get the Spurs into their offense quickly and unfailingly?  Does he create shots for others via penetration?  Does he score aggressively if the defense lapses?  Does he knock down open shots?  Does he push the ball in transition and create easy opportunities?  Does he "QB" the offense?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.  4 Titles.  Best of our generation.  Does he knock down ridiculous 30 foot step back 3's?  Nah.

[Bobshot]

The Auerbach teams always used defense, passing and the transition game to get the best shots. That's pretty much what the Spurs do. If you focus too much on one or two guys taking all the shots, you get in trouble with forced shots.IT has run into that situation at times this season.

Having said that, the Auerbach teams had some great offensive players. But they spread the ball around to whoever had the best shot. Rarely did one guy lead the league in scoring.
The current team is at its best when that is happening--6-7 guys in double figures.

I think what's missing right now from those earlier teams is the talent up front--in rebounding and scoring. That's where they need to improve to get better.

[PickNRoll]

The Auerbach teams always used defense, passing and the transition game to get the best shots. That's pretty much what the Spurs do. If you focus too much on one or two guys taking all the shots, you get in trouble with forced shots.IT has run into that situation at times this season.

Having said that, the Auerbach teams had some great offensive players. But they spread the ball around to whoever had the best shot. Rarely did one guy lead the league in scoring.
The current team is at its best when that is happening--6-7 guys in double figures.

I think what's missing right now from those earlier teams is the talent up front--in rebounding and scoring. That's where they need to improve to get better.

You got it. Our front court is a bunch of 2nd-3rd tier guys.  Just one guy like a boogie or deandre Jordan puts us very close to contention.

[Eja117]

Avery Bradley won us tonight's game....with his offense.

Replace him with Marcus Smart tonight and we lose. 

[guava_wrench]

Scoring more than your opponent does is what wins basketball games. Or, rephrased, them scoring less than you. The best teams are top on defense and offense.

[Eja117]

Scoring more than your opponent does is what wins basketball games. Or, rephrased, them scoring less than you. The best teams are top on defense and offense.

[mgent]

I honestly don't understand the argument.

How do you think players like Ben Wallace even get into the game?

If offense was the most important variable, teams would only put out their best offensive players.

The Warriors and Donnie Nelson actually proved that offense doesn't win basketball games (along with NY and PHO) by sucking for years with offense-minded teams.  It wasn't until they added good defensive players like Green, Thompson, Iggy, Bogut, that they started winning.

[Snakehead]

Both matter.  How can't you see that?

You praise Curry, notice his lacking defense got him torched by Kyrie in the Finals.  Being an MVP doesn't mean you're flawless.  And Curry is contending for titles because the other guys on his team play defense.

[tankcity!]

Both matter.  How can't you see that?

You praise Curry, notice his lacking defense got him torched by Kyrie in the Finals.  Being an MVP doesn't mean you're flawless.  And Curry is contending for titles because the other guys on his team play defense.

Curry isn't the horrible defender you're making him out to be. Def more serviceable than Thomas on that end.

[Rosco917]

Cleveland just won a championship by tightening up their team defense.

Each championship team I've seen has one thing in common...they score a comfortable amount of points more than they give up.

The "Bad Boys" of Detroit late 80's team had a team full of rough tough defenders, and a few guys that could really score, they won games 92 to 85.

The "Showtime" Lakers scored a ton of points at a fast pace... their defense was "good enough" They won games 121-112.

The Celtics of 1986 scored points by clever passing, 3 point shooting, and "good enough D" They scored at a great pace, and gave up less than they scored...almost every night.

Each championship team I've seen has combination, and a balance of both. You deal with the cards you were dealt. If you were dealt tough defenders, then you go with it, or trade everybody away... and pray.

I'll gladly take a team that gives up 85 points, and scores 92... if it means a ring.

[Eja117]

Tonight is a great example of offense winning. If Smart isn't in this game and Kyrie is the Celts win tonight even though Smart played very well. If Smart isn't in this game and Jaylen is there's a decent chance we win this game.

Who was the best player tonight? Oladipo.  An offensive minded all star is simply a better asset to a team than a very very good defensive player, even when that player is having the offensive game of their life.

[mr. dee]

Tonight is a great example of offense winning. If Smart isn't in this game and Kyrie is the Celts win tonight even though Smart played very well. If Smart isn't in this game and Jaylen is there's a decent chance we win this game.

Who was the best player tonight? Oladipo.  An offensive minded all star is simply a better asset to a team than a very very good defensive player, even when that player is having the offensive game of their life.

If Smart wasn't on the game, this would have been a blowout loss. Brown and Horford are also integral part of the defensive schemes. Without them, there's only much Smart can do on the defensive end.

[Eja117]

Tonight is a great example of offense winning. If Smart isn't in this game and Kyrie is the Celts win tonight even though Smart played very well. If Smart isn't in this game and Jaylen is there's a decent chance we win this game.

Who was the best player tonight? Oladipo.  An offensive minded all star is simply a better asset to a team than a very very good defensive player, even when that player is having the offensive game of their life.

If Smart wasn't on the game, this would have been a blowout loss. Brown and Horford are also integral part of the defensive schemes. Without them, there's only much Smart can do on the defensive end.

No. Just no. Take Smart out and put in the all star or the starter and chances are good the Celts win this. Smart did a very good job of keeping it close but he couldn't deliver.

Tonight is also a great example of why his defense is overrated. He can't stop Dipo in a home game let alone a great player in a 7 game series.