Author Topic: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?  (Read 11321 times)

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Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2016, 02:59:28 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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I'm going to answer in the form of a question.....what's so great about Buddy Hield? What's so great about Amir Johnson or Jared Sullinger or Kelly Olynyk? Or Jordan Mickey? Or Dragan Bender?

We need a perimeter shooter, we need a volume scorer, and Celtics fans are always complaining about our lack of size at the SG spot.

* Hield averaged 25 PPG in college this season on a ridiculous 1.54 Points Per FGA
* Hield shot 50% / 46% / 88% shooting and averaged four 3PT made per game
* Hield has Curry-like range, frequently hitting shots way beyond the college three
* Hield is 6'5" and 200+ pounds with a 6'9" wingspan with good athleticism

Hield is also one of the highest 'intangibles' guys in the draft.  He has a reputation for being a hard worker, for having an incredibly high motor, for being incredibly clutch, and for having an extremely high desire to win. 

He is the purest definition of a 'Celtic' and he fills a desperate need.

100% if we can't trade the pick for a top talent, Hield is our best option. Buddy just has the it factor too, I could easily see him as a poor man's Harden, if you watch some of his highlights, his off the ball movement is world class, which bodes well for working with Thomas. I could see Hield becoming our 6th man immediately offering instant offence and eventually making Bradley, Hunter or Smart redundant.

https://youtu.be/CHLLHcq9AOM

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2016, 02:59:41 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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why wouldn't the sixers trade noel or embiid rather than the best one of the bunch in okafur?     i get they both play center but positions are so fluid.  i'd keep okafur, simmons and noel out of those four.   

didn't ainge offer an insulting package for okafur prior to the deadline?   he isn't going to give up a core player and the third pick for a player as one sided as okafur.

A question I love to ask (rhetorically) to those who love Okafor so much.

You are the Philadelphia 76ers. 

You have a center who has absolutely zero offensive game, and who will probably never be more then a defensive role player (Noel).

You have a center who has major health red flags and who hasn't played a game in two NBA seasons, who you clearly cannot depend on to be healthy at this point

Yet Okafor - the healthy guy who apparently has mad star potential - is the guy you decide to put on the trading block.

Why?

I could tell you my theories on why this is, but then I would have all the Okafor lovers hating on me - so I will let you work it out! :)

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2016, 03:10:35 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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We need a perimeter shooter, we need a volume scorer, and Celtics fans are always complaining about our lack of size at the SG spot.

If I perceived a need for more size at SG, I would want a SG who is big enough that I would have no doubts about his ability to slide over to SF.  Can you countenance the idea of moving Crowder to the bench and starting Hield in his place?
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Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2016, 03:16:30 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I don't get It either really.

I mean I do get why people are high on him:

* He's only 19 years old
* He's almost 7 feet tall with a 7'5" wingspan
* He's already an outstanding post scorer
* His college game suggested he had high basketball IQ

But after a year in the NBA I just feel that he has a LOT of limitations / red flags that make me very hesitant to take a risk on him, such as:

* Conditioning issues (don't want to go through that again)
* Weak rebounding numbers
* Questionable off-court behaviour
* Terrible defence
* Poor lateral mobility
* Lack of offensive outside of the paint
* Weak court feel (poor assist-to-turnover ratio)

Okafor was supposed to be an elite offensive talent, yet he only managed 17 PPG on what was by far the worst team in the NBA.  Wiggins was seen as a pretty raw prospect and yet h averaged the same in his rookie year on a team with much more offensive talent.

Okafor is a big man and he was surrounded by horrible shooters who couldn't create for anybody even themselves.  He didn't have an actual point guard passing him the ball till halfway through the season.

Are you forgetting that Karl-Anthony Towns was playing with Ricky Rubio and Andrew Wiggins?  You can't get a backcourt that shoots much worse then that.

Also what does having a PG to pass to him have to do with anything?
 
Does that explain why:
* His jumper is so bad?
* He averaged around 2 turnovers for every assist? 
* He rebounded at an almost embarrassing rate for somebody his size?
* He couldn't defend anything that isn't standing still?

Of course it doesn't. 

Okafor is a talented player.  There is no denying the fact that he has physical talent, and he has some skills.  The problem with Okafor is that he has so many weaknesses in his game right now, that it makes it extremely difficult to find another big man you can pair him with.

Okafor + Kevin Love = fail because you'd have horrendously bad defense
Okafor + Olynyk = fail because you'd have atrocious rebounding
Okafor + Dwight = fail because you'd have no ability to stretch the floor

A guy like Okafor has so many major flaws in his game that there are a very select few guys you could actually play alongside him without giving in to major liabilities in one part of the game or other. 

For all his offensive shortcomings, Noel is actually easier to pair with because at least he:

1) Has the mobility to defend multiple positions and switch on defence
2) Is a good rim protector
3) Is a pretty good (if not great) rebounder
4) Doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective

As long as you can pair him with a good offensive big man who can hit a long-two (or even better, the odd three) you're fine. 

But Okafor...you need to cover for his poor defense, his poor rebounding, his poor jumper, his poor mobility, and the list goes on.

Okafor would have been a beast back in Jordan's era, when the lack of a zone defence option would have allowed him to dominate the post at will. This is a different era, and it's much harder for a guy like him to excel in a time like.

Even Monroe is easier to pair with then Okafor, because at least he can rebound at a high level and is an excellent passing big.

Okafor may well improve his jumper, his rebounding, his defence.  I just don't feel comfortable gambling assets of any significant value he hope that he will do that.

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2016, 03:25:07 AM »

Offline playdream

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why wouldn't the sixers trade noel or embiid rather than the best one of the bunch in okafur?     i get they both play center but positions are so fluid.  i'd keep okafur, simmons and noel out of those four.   

didn't ainge offer an insulting package for okafur prior to the deadline?   he isn't going to give up a core player and the third pick for a player as one sided as okafur.

A question I love to ask (rhetorically) to those who love Okafor so much.

You are the Philadelphia 76ers. 

You have a center who has absolutely zero offensive game, and who will probably never be more then a defensive role player (Noel).

You have a center who has major health red flags and who hasn't played a game in two NBA seasons, who you clearly cannot depend on to be healthy at this point

Yet Okafor - the healthy guy who apparently has mad star potential - is the guy you decide to put on the trading block.

Why?

I could tell you my theories on why this is, but then I would have all the Okafor lovers hating on me - so I will let you work it out! :)
What mad star potential??

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2016, 03:27:35 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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We need a perimeter shooter, we need a volume scorer, and Celtics fans are always complaining about our lack of size at the SG spot.

If I perceived a need for more size at SG, I would want a SG who is big enough that I would have no doubts about his ability to slide over to SF.  Can you countenance the idea of moving Crowder to the bench and starting Hield in his place?

What Shooting Guard exactly would that be?  Are you going trade away our chance to get a potential star and fill a desperate need, based entirely on the hope that we'll manage to trade for Butler or Paul George?

If so, then I say good luck to you because we have almost zero chance of getting Paul George, and we definitely aren't getting Butler if we trade #3 to Philly for Okafor (we'd need #3 in the deal for Butler)...so I have no idea where you think you are going to get a talented, starting calibre shooting guard who is big enough and talented enough to start over Crowder at small forward.

All we need is a guard who is big enough to spend spot minutes at the Small Forward spot here and there, so that they can cover on switches and help pick up minutes at the position in case of injuries. 

Last year we had Turner and Smart playing spot SF minutes in those circumstances.  If Turner (who isn't especially long or strong) and Smart (who is 6'4" at the most and not very athletic) can handle minutes at the SF spot, then I have absolutely no doubt that Hield could as well.

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2016, 03:28:57 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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why wouldn't the sixers trade noel or embiid rather than the best one of the bunch in okafur?     i get they both play center but positions are so fluid.  i'd keep okafur, simmons and noel out of those four.   

didn't ainge offer an insulting package for okafur prior to the deadline?   he isn't going to give up a core player and the third pick for a player as one sided as okafur.

A question I love to ask (rhetorically) to those who love Okafor so much.

You are the Philadelphia 76ers. 

You have a center who has absolutely zero offensive game, and who will probably never be more then a defensive role player (Noel).

You have a center who has major health red flags and who hasn't played a game in two NBA seasons, who you clearly cannot depend on to be healthy at this point

Yet Okafor - the healthy guy who apparently has mad star potential - is the guy you decide to put on the trading block.

Why?

I could tell you my theories on why this is, but then I would have all the Okafor lovers hating on me - so I will let you work it out! :)
What mad star potential??

That seems to be what most of the Okafor obsessionists believe.

If Okafor doesn't have star potential, then why would you bother trading the #3 pick for him?  There are guys in the 3-6 range of this draft who have star potential, so I'd rather just take a chance on one of them.

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2016, 04:49:00 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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We need a perimeter shooter, we need a volume scorer, and Celtics fans are always complaining about our lack of size at the SG spot.

If I perceived a need for more size at SG, I would want a SG who is big enough that I would have no doubts about his ability to slide over to SF.  Can you countenance the idea of moving Crowder to the bench and starting Hield in his place?

What Shooting Guard exactly would that be?  Are you going trade away our chance to get a potential star and fill a desperate need, based entirely on the hope that we'll manage to trade for Butler or Paul George?

If so, then I say good luck to you because we have almost zero chance of getting Paul George, and we definitely aren't getting Butler if we trade #3 to Philly for Okafor (we'd need #3 in the deal for Butler)...so I have no idea where you think you are going to get a talented, starting calibre shooting guard who is big enough and talented enough to start over Crowder at small forward.

All we need is a guard who is big enough to spend spot minutes at the Small Forward spot here and there, so that they can cover on switches and help pick up minutes at the position in case of injuries. 

Last year we had Turner and Smart playing spot SF minutes in those circumstances.  If Turner (who isn't especially long or strong) and Smart (who is 6'4" at the most and not very athletic) can handle minutes at the SF spot, then I have absolutely no doubt that Hield could as well.

My point is that, whatever reasons there might be for drafting Hield, "because the Celtics need size at SG" is an incredibly stupid one.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2016, 07:33:34 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Closet Duke fan?

I think the kid lack heart at times shown by last year sixers play.   He is slow and plodding on D.   He would be an instant upgrade for us, but something about him doesn't seem very Celtic with what he has shown in the NBA.

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2016, 07:37:15 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Okafor is Al Jefferson with a head case.  Sorry, that doesn't cut it.

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2016, 07:41:31 AM »

Offline loco_91

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100% agree with OP. Okafor can be a useful NBA player, but his flaws will always keep him from being a true stud.

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2016, 09:44:07 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Where did this notion that Okafor can't shoot come from?  He doesn't have 3 point range, but has a very good mid-range jump shot (especially for a rookie center) and is a respectable foul shooter (which indicates good touch).  He also has good passing skills for a big man. 
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Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2016, 09:46:38 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Crimson, if you can't figure out what having an actual point guard to pass him the ball has to do with anything, I don't know what to tell you.

Same applies to your Towns comparison.

KAT is unquestionably a much better player and prospect. But he did have the benefit of actual NBA players around him who didn't play the same position.
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Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2016, 09:58:30 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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The strangest thing about Okafor, was that on historically poor team, he made them worse when he was on the floor. He and Noel are probably as opposite big men as they come.

Re: Why is everyone in love with Okafor?
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2016, 10:05:31 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Where did this notion that Okafor can't shoot come from? He doesn't have 3 point range, but has a very good mid-range jump shot (especially for a rookie center) and is a respectable foul shooter (which indicates good touch).  He also has good passing skills for a big man.

He shot 35% from 10-16 feet and averaged 1.2 assists vs 2.3 turnovers per game.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 10:11:06 AM by Eddie20 »