Author Topic: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?  (Read 13224 times)

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Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2016, 09:00:32 PM »

Offline YeezusChrist

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The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2016, 09:07:56 PM »

Offline Granath

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The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

Because he put up empty stats on a horrible team and Philly will have a log jam in the front court.

Every single advanced stat on Okafor is awful. Horrible. Terrible. While a lot of that is due to him playing on Philly, a lot of it also is his limited game and poor defense. The fact that the guy scores 17ppg a game does not make him a stud when others are scoring 25 on him.
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Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2016, 09:14:22 PM »

Offline YeezusChrist

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The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

Because he put up empty stats on a horrible team and Philly will have a log jam in the front court.

If they are empty stats then why would we want a mediocre player and Philly having a logjam doesn't mean they are going to sell Okafor for $.25 on the dollar or even fair value they will take the highest offer and the 3rd pick alone will not be anywhere close to the highest offer

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2016, 09:17:23 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Okafor. He's a consistent scoring source that we absolutely need. The trick is to find the right 4 next to him. Mickey might be that guy.
Don't think Mickey would be the man, but if we could convince Horford to come they would fit very well with each other.

PG: Isaiah Thomas
SG: Avery Bradley
SF: Jae Crowder
PF: Al Horford
C: Jahlil Okafor

That's actually a really good point. Horford would be a very good complement to him in the frontcourt, and he'd be an excellent guy to learn from.
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Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2016, 09:18:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

They'd trade Okafor because Saric is coming over, Embiid will play next season, and they simply can't develop them all at once without hurting their trade value.
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Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2016, 09:27:32 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I would go Hield or Dunn - probably Hield because of his size and outright shooting/scoring ability - two things we really need at the SG spot moreso than we need Dunn's passing and ball handling talents.

But I'd be absolutely thrilled with either.

Dunn has excellent size and strength for a PG (6'4", 6'9" wingspan, 205 lbs) to go with impressive athleticism and good ball handling skills.  He should have no problem getting his shot off against NBA Point Guards, as he should have a matchup advantage 80% - 90% of the time.   He also has the physical tools to be a good defender in the NBA.

Hield also has good size and strength  (6'5", 6'9" wingspan, 212 lbs) and quickness for the SG spot - combine that with the ridiculous (Steph Curry like) range on his jump shot and his uncanny ability to hit shots with a hand in his face, and I think he'll have no trouble getting shots off against NBA defence either.  He also has the physical tools to be a good defender in the NBA.

With Murray however, he doesn't have the ball handling or passing skills to be a full time Point Guard.  That pretty much forces him to the SG spot, where his combined lack of size (6'4", 6'6" wingspan), athleticism and ball handling skills pose a real concern at the NBA level. 

Will Murray be able to create the space he needs to get shots off at the NBA level, or is he going to be completely dependent on having to run off screens, and shoot off the catch?  If teams attack him hard at the perimeter, does he have the quickness and ball handling ability to capitalise on that and get to the basket?  If he gets to the basket, will he be able to finish against NBA length? 

If worst comes to worst and Murray's struggles to get his shots off, is he capable of contributing in other ways?  He's a poor defensive player, he's not a great playmaker either.  That means if he can't find a way to get his shots off consistently, he's probably going to be a complete non factor. 

Dunn on the other hand is an excellent rebounder, playmaker and defender so he can contribute in other ways if his scoring doesn't translate.  Hield also is a good rebounder and has the physical tools to become a good defender.  That gives both of those guys a pretty low chance of busting IMHO, because they can contribute in a variety of ways.

I look at Murray and I see Jimmer Fredette (worst case) and JJ Reddick (best case).  If he gets drafted anywhere higher than #5 I think he's going to struggle to justify that with his play.  HE is very young though, so the potential is there for him to improve significantly as a ball handler and playmaker - it's a significant gamble though. 
 

The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

Because he put up empty stats on a horrible team and Philly will have a log jam in the front court.

If they are empty stats then why would we want a mediocre player and Philly having a logjam doesn't mean they are going to sell Okafor for $.25 on the dollar or even fair value they will take the highest offer and the 3rd pick alone will not be anywhere close to the highest offer

I suspect you are wrong.

I think that if Philly were capable of getting an offer any higher than #3 they would have traded Okafor at the deadline.

They didn't, because they can't.  Okafor was drafted #3, so trading him for a #3 pick is not a crazy proposition.  Okafor has the added value of being more proven then a draft pick, but he also has the con of being a center (which the 76ers have a billion of).

It makes absolutely perfect sense for Philly to trade Okafor for the #3 pick so that they can draft a scoring guard like Hield, Dunn or Murray.  Dunn in particular would be a perfect fit for them, as he gives them a two-way PG with star potential.

Philly could take Ingram with their pick, Hield with ours, and add that to a front court of Noel / Embiid.  That's an amazing package to build around.

Unfortunately for them I wouldn't do it, because I like both Hield and Dunn far more than I like Okafor.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 10:14:59 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2016, 09:39:49 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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If you take Heild or Murray than you trade Smart and Young. We simply don't need that many guards and that much youth. Questions is what Could Smart bring back? Young is a throw away.

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2016, 09:40:05 PM »

Offline YeezusChrist

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The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

They'd trade Okafor because Saric is coming over, Embiid will play next season, and they simply can't develop them all at once without hurting their trade value.

They will receive a higher offer than the 3rd pick his value has not dropped.

Saric is a 3/4 tweener they will have no problem slotting him at the 3 for the season, Embiid is a question mark he hasn't played in 2 years they don't know the level of his talent or if he can even stay on the floor, and I can see philly having a 3 big man rotational lineup with Noel, Embiid, and Okafor without decreasing any of their value because Embiid will most likely be on limited minutes most of the season.

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2016, 09:42:17 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

They'd trade Okafor because Saric is coming over, Embiid will play next season, and they simply can't develop them all at once without hurting their trade value.

They will receive a higher offer than the 3rd pick his value has not dropped.

Saric is a 3/4 tweener they will have no problem slotting him at the 3 for the season, Embiid is a question mark he hasn't played in 2 years they don't know the level of his talent or if he can even stay on the floor, and I can see philly having a 3 big man rotational lineup with Noel, Embiid, and Okafor without decreasing any of their value because Embiid will most likely be on limited minutes most of the season.
They aren't getting a top 2 pick.

What is between #3 and #2 that they could get?

Eric Bledsoe? Maybe? I honestly just don't see them getting anything better than 3.

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2016, 09:43:21 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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As others have said, the 3rd pick is not enough for Okafor. What else would be be giving up?

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2016, 09:47:29 PM »

Offline YeezusChrist

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I would go Hield or Dunn - probably Hield because he has better size, and we don't really need Dunn's better passing / ball handling that desperately...but desperately need Hield's shooting range.

But I'd be absolutely thrilled with either.

The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

Because he put up empty stats on a horrible team and Philly will have a log jam in the front court.

If they are empty stats then why would we want a mediocre player and Philly having a logjam doesn't mean they are going to sell Okafor for $.25 on the dollar or even fair value they will take the highest offer and the 3rd pick alone will not be anywhere close to the highest offer

I suspect you are wrong.

I think that if Philly were capable of getting an offer any higher than #3 they would have traded Okafor at the deadline.

They didn't, because they can't.  Okafor was drafted #3, so trading him for a #3 pick is not a crazy proposition.  Okafor has the added value of being more proven then a draft pick, but he also has the con of being a center (which the 76ers have a billion of).

It makes absolutely perfect sense for Philly to trade Okafor for the #3 pick so that they can draft a scoring guard like Hield, Dunn or Murray.  Dunn in particular would be a perfect fit for them, as he gives them a two-way PG with star potential.

Philly could take Ingram with their pick, Hield with ours, and add that to a front court of Noel / Embiid.  That's an amazing package to build around.

Unfortunately for them I wouldn't do it, because I like both Hield and Dunn far more than I like Okafor.

I agree on Hield his shooting is needed on this team but one of the guards must go to get him any minutes.

If we are to trust the rumors Danny offered almost all 1st picks this year and another brk pick and that couldn't get it done at the deadline.

I don't think they are too concerned about the choices at guard because the 2 teams after us are guard heavy as is and there are 3 guards who have good potential in Hield, Murray, and Dunn which means a team like the pelicans could swing a deal for Okafor to pair with Davis and have a good Frontcourt for the future with AD developing a 3 point game in the past year

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2016, 09:47:44 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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As others have said, the 3rd pick is not enough for Okafor. What else would be be giving up?

I'd gladly throw in Bradley and Olynyk.

Just keep IT, Smart, and Crowder out of it.
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Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2016, 09:48:49 PM »

Offline max215

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As others have said, the 3rd pick is not enough for Okafor. What else would be be giving up?

I think #3 is enough. That's basically Kris Dunn for Okafor; that makes sense for both teams.
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Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2016, 09:51:02 PM »

Offline YeezusChrist

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The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

They'd trade Okafor because Saric is coming over, Embiid will play next season, and they simply can't develop them all at once without hurting their trade value.

They will receive a higher offer than the 3rd pick his value has not dropped.

Saric is a 3/4 tweener they will have no problem slotting him at the 3 for the season, Embiid is a question mark he hasn't played in 2 years they don't know the level of his talent or if he can even stay on the floor, and I can see philly having a 3 big man rotational lineup with Noel, Embiid, and Okafor without decreasing any of their value because Embiid will most likely be on limited minutes most of the season.
They aren't getting a top 2 pick.

What is between #3 and #2 that they could get?

Eric Bledsoe? Maybe? I honestly just don't see them getting anything better than 3.

I'm saying a team like the Pelicans could offer 6 and future picks to get Okafor which would surpass 3 because there are 3 good guards who are available and 1 is bound to fall to them.
We would need to add some more value to get Okafor.

Re: Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2016, 09:54:57 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I would go Hield or Dunn - probably Hield because he has better size, and we don't really need Dunn's better passing / ball handling that desperately...but desperately need Hield's shooting range.

But I'd be absolutely thrilled with either.

The 3 pick alone doesn't get us Okafor!! Why would Philly trade a 20 yo Center who was productive as a rookie for a draft pick that isn't proven??

Hield and Murray both seem like great players but IT, Smart or Bradley have to go to get him here

Because he put up empty stats on a horrible team and Philly will have a log jam in the front court.

If they are empty stats then why would we want a mediocre player and Philly having a logjam doesn't mean they are going to sell Okafor for $.25 on the dollar or even fair value they will take the highest offer and the 3rd pick alone will not be anywhere close to the highest offer

I suspect you are wrong.

I think that if Philly were capable of getting an offer any higher than #3 they would have traded Okafor at the deadline.


That makes no sense.  Supposedly Boston offered a package built around the Brooklyn pick (who knows what else we were offering) for Okafor and Philly ultimately turned it down. 

WHy did they turn it down?  Well, probably because there was still significant uncertainty about the Brooklyn pick.  Had Brooklyn won a handful of games and the lotto balls bounced wrong, that pick could have been outside of the top 6.

Why else did they turn it down?  Well, if it aint broke don't fix it.  They were trying to tank it up.  It worked out.  Now they have the top pick to thank for their tankjob.

Why else?  Well maybe because Okafor might end up better than every player in this draft.  So why bother?

Also, can someone tell me where someone like Kris Dunn, Buddy Hield or Jaylen Brown would have gone in the 2015 NBA draft?  I don't follow College ball, but someone said yesterday that Jaylen Brown is a poor man's Justice Winslow.  Winslow went 10th in the 2015 draft.  If Brown is a poor man's Winslow and some mocks have us taking him 3rd, doesn't that seem to suggest that the 3rd best player in this draft wouldn't have gone in the top 10 last year?   Then, explain to me why the #3 pick alone would be equal value for a player who was taken 3rd last last year in a superior draft and is clearly an excellent big man prospect who can already contribute?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 10:00:27 PM by LarBrd33 »