Heild or Murray , or Okafor ?

[crimson_stallion]

Everyone is glossing about how Hield is undersized as a wing player. But let's also talk about Murray's wingspan and he is only inch taller than Hield.

Hield - 8'9"
Murray - 8'7"

Let's also talk about defense. Buddy Hield also have the edge. He was a solid role playing defender in his first two years in Oklahoma. It was reduced due to his increased offensive role.

Murray can be a ballhog at times and a high AST ratio with turnovers. Hield is always known as a leader.

Gotta admit, Murray is a better finisher and ball handler though.

Murray isn't bigger at all. 

Hield measured at 6'5" / 212 pounds / 6'9.25" wingspan at the combine. Murray isn't taller then bigger than him in any measurement that I am aware of.

Murray is also has medicore athleticism and average ball handling, which leaves me wondering how on earth he is going to get his shot off against NBA defence. 

Hield has medicore ball handling (worse than Murray), but at least he has good quickness to go with his very good length and insane range on his jumper..all of which leaves me thinking he should have a much easier time getting his shot off than Murray. 

I have absolutely no clue how anybody can picture Murray being a higher calibre prospect then Hield.  It just makes no sense at all to me.  The only thing I know of that Murray has going for him is youth, but talent spanks youth every time,

[crimson_stallion]

I don't follow College ball.

Hield had amazing stats, but he's a Senior.  Having looked at College player stats over the years, it's hard to trust anyone who put up great stats as a Senior.  Players seem to play significantly better the more attempts they have to play on the College level. 

It looks like Murray was far superior to Hield as a Freshman.  But then I guess you have to account for the system, team and competition.  And like I said, I don't follow College ball.

I don't care if Murray was superior to Hield as a freshman.  I care what both guys are capable of right now.

Hield improved dramatically from his freshman year to now - he's taken massive strides.  He's known for having an outstanding work ethic, which probably has a lot to do with that.

Murray may have a better freshman year, and may not make anything close to the same type of leap Hield has.

Murray is an average sized SG who is also an average athlete - there isn't a huge amount or raw physical ability there to indicate that he has off-the-charts potential.  He looks to me like a guy who pretty much is who he is.  I'm sure he'll grow, but I don't see him taking a massive leap into stardom.

Hield has already taken a leap into stardom and his development path so far suggests he's only scratching the surface. 

[crimson_stallion]

Does anyone here feel like trading the #3 for Noel and the future owed lakers pick is good value?

I do not like this idea at all.

Noel is an athletic defensive role player.  We could get that easily enough by drafting Poeltl or Labissiere.  No point at all in trading #3 for Noel.

[mr. dee]

Youth is an overated aspect for a prospect. It was the same reason on why 4 other GMs passed on Dame Lillard, and he turn out to be the 2nd best player in his class.

[byennie]

Does anyone here feel like trading the #3 for Noel and the future owed lakers pick is good value?

I do not like this idea at all.

Noel is an athletic defensive role player.  We could get that easily enough by drafting Poeltl or Labissiere.  No point at all in trading #3 for Noel.

"Defensive role player" is pretty weak for Noel. We're talking about a 22 year-old who is already capable of giving you 15 & 10 with 2 blocks & 2 steals and making the all-defense team at center. He would go top 2 or 3 in this draft. Poeltl and Skal are prospects in their own right, but definitely less valuable than Noel.

Problem with Noel is he's gotta get paid. Those other guys would be on rookie deals.

[mr. dee]

Does anyone here feel like trading the #3 for Noel and the future owed lakers pick is good value?

I do not like this idea at all.

Noel is an athletic defensive role player.  We could get that easily enough by drafting Poeltl or Labissiere.  No point at all in trading #3 for Noel.

"Defensive role player" is pretty weak for Noel. We're talking about a 22 year-old who is already capable of giving you 15 & 10 with 2 blocks & 2 steals and making the all-defense team at center. He would go top 2 or 3 in this draft. Poeltl and Skal are prospects in their own right, but definitely less valuable than Noel.

Problem with Noel is he's gotta get paid. Those other guys would be on rookie deals.

Where did you get those numbers? Noel is only averaging 10/8 this season. His price tag will just continue to go down if Philly continues this tanking job.

[byennie]

Does anyone here feel like trading the #3 for Noel and the future owed lakers pick is good value?

I do not like this idea at all.

Noel is an athletic defensive role player.  We could get that easily enough by drafting Poeltl or Labissiere.  No point at all in trading #3 for Noel.

"Defensive role player" is pretty weak for Noel. We're talking about a 22 year-old who is already capable of giving you 15 & 10 with 2 blocks & 2 steals and making the all-defense team at center. He would go top 2 or 3 in this draft. Poeltl and Skal are prospects in their own right, but definitely less valuable than Noel.

Problem with Noel is he's gotta get paid. Those other guys would be on rookie deals.

Where did you get those numbers? Noel is only averaging 10/8 this season. His price tag will just continue to go down if Philly continues this tanking job.

His center splits (28 starts) for Philly were 13.6 pts / 8.3 reb / 2.1 stl / 1.5 blk in 30 mins this year with 55% FG. Give him a few more minutes and/or stop shuffling him over to PF and 15/10/2/2 with DPOY upside is pretty realistic. Not many centers that can give you that.

[cltc5]

Buddy Heild is a pit the game on his back and let him carry you kinda guy.  I'd take him

[Celtics4ever]

I hope we do not trade for Okafor.   He is like a bigger Sully without the weight issues, but does not have good foot speed or the like.   We will need a few guys who can defend a guy like that.   But I am not sold he is the solution.

[PhoSita]

I hope we do not trade for Okafor.   He is like a bigger Sully without the weight issues, but does not have good foot speed or the like.   We will need a few guys who can defend a guy like that.   But I am not sold he is the solution.

I mean, if Sully were seven feet tall, didn't have weight issues, and came into the league as a teenager with better post moves than all but a handful of big men league-wide, I think he'd be a pretty good young player.

Just sayin.

[The Rondo Show]

I hope we do not trade for Okafor.   He is like a bigger Sully without the weight issues, but does not have good foot speed or the like.   We will need a few guys who can defend a guy like that.   But I am not sold he is the solution.

Jared Sullinger makes Okafor look like Steph Curry in terms of athleticism and foot speed.

[knuckleballer]

I don't follow College ball.

Hield had amazing stats, but he's a Senior.  Having looked at College player stats over the years, it's hard to trust anyone who put up great stats as a Senior.  Players seem to play significantly better the more attempts they have to play on the College level. 

It looks like Murray was far superior to Hield as a Freshman.  But then I guess you have to account for the system, team and competition.  And like I said, I don't follow College ball.

I don't care if Murray was superior to Hield as a freshman.  I care what both guys are capable of right now.

Hield improved dramatically from his freshman year to now - he's taken massive strides.  He's known for having an outstanding work ethic, which probably has a lot to do with that.

Murray may have a better freshman year, and may not make anything close to the same type of leap Hield has.

Murray is an average sized SG who is also an average athlete - there isn't a huge amount or raw physical ability there to indicate that he has off-the-charts potential.  He looks to me like a guy who pretty much is who he is.  I'm sure he'll grow, but I don't see him taking a massive leap into stardom.

Hield has already taken a leap into stardom and his development path so far suggests he's only scratching the surface.

Hield was a better player last year than Murray, but not by much.  Murray was better as a freshman than Hield was as a junior.  Still, the leap Hield took was huge.  So how do we compare them?  It's tough.  To hope Murray takes the same jump is unrealistic.  So let's compare them now.  Hield is more of a gamer, a baller.  Murray is a better ball handler which cannot be ignored.  It's so close in my mind, but I will go with the freshman.  His shooting and ball handling skills at his age plus the calmness and body control he shows... that's a long time NBA player in my mind.

[Casperian]

Does anyone here feel like trading the #3 for Noel and the future owed lakers pick is good value?

Make that the 76ers 2017 pick and I'd do that in a heartbeat. Might be able to talk Colangelo into that, actually. Foundation, core grows together, yadda yadda yadda

[Casperian]

Hield or Murray? You take the 19 year old any day of the week.

No, you take the better talent.  Taking guys purely due to their age is generally a poor decision - if you need an example just look to James Young, who Murray happens to look quite a lot like right now. 

Age is pretty much the ONLY thing Murray has over Hield right now. Murray's greatest asset is his outside shot, and Hield's outside shot is better. Murray does have better PG skills, but his PG skills are still medicore (less than 1 assist-per-turnover and average ball handling) so that's kind of a moot point. 

Hield is the safer pick, and he also has (IMHO) a higher upside as well - despite his age. If you
want James Young 2.0 or Jimmer Fredette 2.0 then by all means, take Murray at #3.

Dunn is also a better prospect then Murray, but I put him after Hield because we need size and outside shooting rather than PG skills right now, and Hield is bigger then Dunn and a better outside shooter. 

But if we didn't get Hield, I'd want it to be Dunn. 

My problem is that I basically agree with you 100%, cs 

I also think it's between Hield and Dunn (excluding Bender, because I can't evaluate him). The problem I have is that neither of them should be picked by us at #3.

There's a lot to like about Hield, but if he doesn't work out, Ainge will look like an absolute fool. I can already hear some guys sharpening their knives in the corner. The thing is, in that case, they would have a point.
Dunn is the most NBA-ready prospect I have seen in years. There's absolutely zero doubt in my mind that he will be an NBA player, but he's also pretty redundant to what we already have on the team. So if you want to draft Dunn, you kinda have to trade one of the guys who play in our backcourt right now. That's not really improving our situation, and thus would be a very underwhelming outcome for a #3 pick.

[MBunge]

How about Victor Oladipo for a Hield comparison?  They play the same position.  Victor came out as a junior while Buddy's a senior.  MCW was the rookie of the year but Victor's arguably the best player from that draft class three years in.

Mike