Author Topic: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?  (Read 6484 times)

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Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2016, 01:17:10 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Starting.  Crowder can slot at the 3 or 4.
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Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2016, 03:14:19 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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Simmons starts at the PF

Ingram comes off the bench behind smart
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Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2016, 03:31:01 PM »

Offline max215

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Starting, Simmons at the 4 or Ingram at the 3.
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Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2016, 03:48:43 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I don't think Ingram beats out Crowder until mid year absolute earliest. Maybe after he puts on 15 pounds

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2016, 03:58:04 PM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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Starting.  Crowder can slot at the 3 or 4.

Agreed.  I don't know why so many people think drafting Ingram means either he or crowder will be on the bench.  We need to get our best 5 guys on the floor, and if that means playing crowder as a small ball 4 (which he should have no problem doing), then we should do it.

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2016, 04:43:53 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Ingram for me means AB, IT and pick 23 get dealt for Parker.
Start- Smart, Ingram, Crowder, Parker, KO
Bench- Rozier, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

If Simmons
Start- IT, AB, Crowder, Simmons, KO
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

What I still want is trade the pick to Jazz with some other assets for both Favors and Hayward. AJ, Hunter, Rozier, 23 and Nets pick for Favors and Hayward. Then sign Pau or Stat to come off bench. Or get Anderson and have KO off bench.
Start- IT, AB, Hayward, Anderson, Favors
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO
Reserves TBD

They would give Cavs a run and probably win. Finals would depend on how good chemistry really is.

If we could nab something like a Poeltl alongside Ingram, I wouldn't mind that mini-blow-up deal at all. Smart, Ingram, Crowder, Parker, Poeltl with Rozier, Mickey, JJ, and AJ off the bench would be one hell of a young team with some huge upside and the chance to make the playoffs right away.
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Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2016, 04:45:48 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Either guy you start.  No brainier.  You don't Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. around with roatTions like Stevens did all year.  Either of these Gus has more potential than anyone else on our roster so put them in the fire early.  This is one of the problems now.  We have good talent rotting on the bench because Stevens won't play them.  Put em in for a few minutes. Bits like fuxkin doc rivers all over again

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2016, 05:10:03 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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Whatever they earn in practice and in game action.  No one should get playing time based on where they are drafted, or preconceived notions of where they fit in.

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2016, 05:10:06 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Quote
Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

We all like to believe Simmons will start. But this is CBS not Brett Brown

I don't think he does. Not right away

Interesting point, but there is precedent for Stevens starting rookies. Smart started during stretches in his rookie year, and Simmons will probably be a better prospect his first year than smart was during his.

This coupled with the fact that we are kind of weak at the pf spot, and Simmons can bring us the rebounding versatility of a sully, with the passing ability of nobody on our roster.

Your cover pic is not working - fyi

Smart was everywhere that 1st year.  Nothing solid

Even though Simmons is a top talent, can he understand the nuisances of CBS system so quickly? It is an advanced system where go with X if not Y  or while in X adjust to Z depending etc.

this is not "freewheeling"  type of system. Except in situations you are struggling like crap and its like give it to IT and get out of the way.   But this only happens after IT also "perfects" the understanding of the system

If you see CBS he doesn't really get upset when "properly" executed shots taken/are missed.  BUT if you miss a rotation, in the wrong place, don't box out, miss one "tiny" step,  it shows 100 x magnified in his facial reaction even if he doesn't "spazz"

TBH this is where the problem comes in with Simmons.  He is a world talent but his emotions wavered during quarter to quarter , game to game. Especially during crucial moments.  And him skipping class (for whatever the case) is not a good sign he is going to break through the wall to "perfect" to understand plays/system.  I don't know I could be jumping the gun a little here

for these reasons, I much prefer the Celts grab Ingram

Very valid points, but I've never understood the connection between skipping classes and not being able to study basketball. He obviously loves basketball.

Our nba society makes him either a.) Go to college for a 1 and done, or b) go overseas and watch your draft stock slip.

He did the "mature thing" and went to college which is an archaic system anyway. Of course he stopped going to school once his season was over. Contrary to what we want to believe, these aren't student athletes. They are professional athletes forced to make money for big education.

In my opinion it shows a clear focus and ability to prioritize his future and the sport he loves, over showing up and taking American history 102, buried cities and lost tribes, and basket weaving 117.

I get that, and hope thats what it is

However not to be too negative, learning plays , system, scouting other teams  etc.  requires you to be a "pro"

not just give the ball to me and get out of the way.   Eventually in parts of games it becomes like that. But not majority of the time it's not like that. 

Simmons is going to have to "study"  basketball like he has not before or maybe wanted to. 

This is why I'm sort of connecting "finishing" classes/be a good student with learning plays at the pro level.   

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2016, 08:18:50 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Ingram for me means AB, IT and pick 23 get dealt for Parker.
Start- Smart, Ingram, Crowder, Parker, KO
Bench- Rozier, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

If Simmons
Start- IT, AB, Crowder, Simmons, KO
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

What I still want is trade the pick to Jazz with some other assets for both Favors and Hayward. AJ, Hunter, Rozier, 23 and Nets pick for Favors and Hayward. Then sign Pau or Stat to come off bench. Or get Anderson and have KO off bench.
Start- IT, AB, Hayward, Anderson, Favors
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO
Reserves TBD

They would give Cavs a run and probably win. Finals would depend on how good chemistry really is.

If we could nab something like a Poeltl alongside Ingram, I wouldn't mind that mini-blow-up deal at all. Smart, Ingram, Crowder, Parker, Poeltl with Rozier, Mickey, JJ, and AJ off the bench would be one hell of a young team with some huge upside and the chance to make the playoffs right away.
Poeltl would be a good fit. Still I'd start KO to space things as Parker and Smart aren't great from outside just yet. But a good rotation of bigs when Crowder and Ingram get a breather we can see Poeltl or AJ in the lineup of= Rozier, Smart, Parker, KO, Poeltl/AJ. So yes mini step back but still competing with a lot of potential.

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2016, 08:32:58 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Either guy you start.  No brainier.  You don't **** around with roatTions like Stevens did all year.  Either of these Gus has more potential than anyone else on our roster so put them in the fire early.  This is one of the problems now.  We have good talent rotting on the bench because Stevens won't play them.  Put em in for a few minutes. Bits like fuxkin doc rivers all over again

Sorry but this made me chuckle

hilarious.  But to be honest, if both coaches wont' play "james young" over Crowder or give young much min, there must be a good reason why

Just saying don't expect Stevens to be generous with giving time even to a top top level prospect like simmons or ingram right away

they got to "earn" it.  Though some players "learn" by experience

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2016, 11:46:10 PM »

Offline loco_91

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He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Quote
Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

Badly underrating Crowder. He is awesome.

Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2016, 01:39:27 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year


Why trade Crowder at all? He can guard three positions. It's not like there's an abstract "starting small forward" slot that you can only have one good player to fill. Crowder is a wing stopper; he can take the heat off a closer like Ingram on D so that Ingram can use his energy to score. Crowder is a perfect complementary player. Once Ingram acclimates, you start both of them.




Re: If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2016, 01:55:09 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Quote
Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

Badly underrating Crowder. He is awesome.
perhaps more to the point is that CBS is first and foremost concerned with the team playing within a system. crowder certainly does so. would ingram's abilities be so dramatically better than those of crowder to warrant/make up for the numerous screw ups any rookies would make and their impact on team play?

maybe. but i would not be surprised or upset if CBS instead brings ingram off the bench until he learns the systems and schemes.
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