If the Celtics draft Simmons or Ingram: Where in the rotation?

[Tr1boy]

Starting, off the bench, role min?  No minutes at all for a while?

On a team like the 76ers/lakers each player prob get major playing min. But what about on the Celtics squad?

[A Future of Stevens]

I think simmons starts (say 28-32 mins) at the pf spot. His versatility and rebounding are skills that will translate from day one, and if he is able to score at all that's just icing on the cake.

I think Ingram becomes our scorer off the bench, and kind of gets free reign of the 2nd unit. Crowder is just too good to take his role in year one for a skinny rookie.

[Who]

Ben Simmons starts from Day One.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

[Celtics4ever]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

[TheSundanceKid]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

[Tr1boy]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

We all like to believe Simmons will start. But this is CBS not Brett Brown

I don't think he does. Not right away

[A Future of Stevens]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

We all like to believe Simmons will start. But this is CBS not Brett Brown

I don't think he does. Not right away

Interesting point, but there is precedent for Stevens starting rookies. Smart started during stretches in his rookie year, and Simmons will probably be a better prospect his first year than smart was during his.

This coupled with the fact that we are kind of weak at the pf spot, and Simmons can bring us the rebounding versatility of a sully, with the passing ability of nobody on our roster.

[chambers]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

We all like to believe Simmons will start. But this is CBS not Brett Brown

I don't think he does. Not right away

Simmons could start at PF in his first year easily.
If we let Sully walk it would the perfect opportunity to start him at PF.

[Csfan1984]

Ingram for me means AB, IT and pick 23 get dealt for Parker.
Start- Smart, Ingram, Crowder, Parker, KO
Bench- Rozier, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

If Simmons
Start- IT, AB, Crowder, Simmons, KO
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

What I still want is trade the pick to Jazz with some other assets for both Favors and Hayward. AJ, Hunter, Rozier, 23 and Nets pick for Favors and Hayward. Then sign Pau or Stat to come off bench. Or get Anderson and have KO off bench.
Start- IT, AB, Hayward, Anderson, Favors
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO
Reserves TBD

They would give Cavs a run and probably win. Finals would depend on how good chemistry really is.

[Tr1boy]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

We all like to believe Simmons will start. But this is CBS not Brett Brown

I don't think he does. Not right away

Interesting point, but there is precedent for Stevens starting rookies. Smart started during stretches in his rookie year, and Simmons will probably be a better prospect his first year than smart was during his.

This coupled with the fact that we are kind of weak at the pf spot, and Simmons can bring us the rebounding versatility of a sully, with the passing ability of nobody on our roster.

Your cover pic is not working - fyi

Smart was everywhere that 1st year.  Nothing solid

Even though Simmons is a top talent, can he understand the nuisances of CBS system so quickly? It is an advanced system where go with X if not Y  or while in X adjust to Z depending etc.

this is not "freewheeling"  type of system. Except in situations you are struggling like crap and its like give it to IT and get out of the way.   But this only happens after IT also "perfects" the understanding of the system

If you see CBS he doesn't really get upset when "properly" executed shots taken/are missed.  BUT if you miss a rotation, in the wrong place, don't box out, miss one "tiny" step,  it shows 100 x magnified in his facial reaction even if he doesn't "spazz"

TBH this is where the problem comes in with Simmons.  He is a world talent but his emotions wavered during quarter to quarter , game to game. Especially during crucial moments.  And him skipping class (for whatever the case) is not a good sign he is going to break through the wall to "perfect" to understand plays/system.  I don't know I could be jumping the gun a little here

for these reasons, I much prefer the Celts grab Ingram

[chambers]

Ingram for me means AB, IT and pick 23 get dealt for Parker.
Start- Smart, Ingram, Crowder, Parker, KO
Bench- Rozier, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

If Simmons
Start- IT, AB, Crowder, Simmons, KO
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

What I still want is trade the pick to Jazz with some other assets for both Favors and Hayward. AJ, Hunter, Rozier, 23 and Nets pick for Favors and Hayward. Then sign Pau or Stat to come off bench. Or get Anderson and have KO off bench.
Start- IT, AB, Hayward, Anderson, Favors
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO
Reserves TBD

They would give Cavs a run and probably win. Finals would depend on how good chemistry really is.

I get your logic in upgrading with some solid players, but I don't think Danny takes a route like this. Seems like a waste to wait all this time to get our hands on championship players and to have him waste assets and cap room signing guys like Hayward and Anderson would be suicide.

Favors is good but that team with Hayward and Anderson is struggling to make the Eastern Conference Finals. Crowder is arguably a more effective player on combined ends than Hayward. Anderson is an inferior defender to Olynyk and Olynyk also shoots better. I honestly think we'd be better off getting Luol Deng as a small ball PF than Anderson.
Hayward doesn't move the needle enough either.
We need top 10-15 players, not borderline All Stars (which in my opinion those guys are).

I get that you're probably thinking that with IT, Hayward, Crowder, AB, Favors, Smart with KO and Brad Stevens would be an awesome team (don't get me wrong it would be a VERY GOOD, fun team, VERY competitive team), but I think they'd be more like this years Hawks than a true contender that could challenge GWS or OKC in a 7 game series, if that makes sense.

[Csfan1984]

Ingram for me means AB, IT and pick 23 get dealt for Parker.
Start- Smart, Ingram, Crowder, Parker, KO
Bench- Rozier, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

If Simmons
Start- IT, AB, Crowder, Simmons, KO
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Hunter, JJ, AJ
Reserve TBD

What I still want is trade the pick to Jazz with some other assets for both Favors and Hayward. AJ, Hunter, Rozier, 23 and Nets pick for Favors and Hayward. Then sign Pau or Stat to come off bench. Or get Anderson and have KO off bench.
Start- IT, AB, Hayward, Anderson, Favors
Bench- Rozier, Smart, Crowder, JJ, KO
Reserves TBD

They would give Cavs a run and probably win. Finals would depend on how good chemistry really is.

I get your logic in upgrading with some solid players, but I don't think Danny takes a route like this. Seems like a waste to wait all this time to get our hands on championship players and to have him waste assets and cap room signing guys like Hayward and Anderson would be suicide.

Favors is good but that team with Hayward and Anderson is struggling to make the Eastern Conference Finals. Crowder is arguably a more effective player on combined ends than Hayward. Anderson is an inferior defender to Olynyk and Olynyk also shoots better. I honestly think we'd be better off getting Luol Deng as a small ball PF than Anderson.
Hayward doesn't move the needle enough either.
We need top 10-15 players, not borderline All Stars (which in my opinion those guys are).

I get that you're probably thinking that with IT, Hayward, Crowder, AB, Favors, Smart with KO and Brad Stevens would be an awesome team (don't get me wrong it would be a VERY GOOD, fun team, VERY competitive team), but I think they'd be more like this years Hawks than a true contender that could challenge GWS or OKC in a 7 game series, if that makes sense.

I hear ya it's two birds in the hand verse an eagle in the bush. Hard to not want the Eagle.

[TheSundanceKid]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

We all like to believe Simmons will start. But this is CBS not Brett Brown

I don't think he does. Not right away

Interesting point, but there is precedent for Stevens starting rookies. Smart started during stretches in his rookie year, and Simmons will probably be a better prospect his first year than smart was during his.

This coupled with the fact that we are kind of weak at the pf spot, and Simmons can bring us the rebounding versatility of a sully, with the passing ability of nobody on our roster.

Your cover pic is not working - fyi

Smart was everywhere that 1st year.  Nothing solid

Even though Simmons is a top talent, can he understand the nuisances of CBS system so quickly? It is an advanced system where go with X if not Y  or while in X adjust to Z depending etc.

this is not "freewheeling"  type of system. Except in situations you are struggling like crap and its like give it to IT and get out of the way.   But this only happens after IT also "perfects" the understanding of the system

If you see CBS he doesn't really get upset when "properly" executed shots taken/are missed.  BUT if you miss a rotation, in the wrong place, don't box out, miss one "tiny" step,  it shows 100 x magnified in his facial reaction even if he doesn't "spazz"

TBH this is where the problem comes in with Simmons.  He is a world talent but his emotions wavered during quarter to quarter , game to game. Especially during crucial moments.  And him skipping class (for whatever the case) is not a good sign he is going to break through the wall to "perfect" to understand plays/system.  I don't know I could be jumping the gun a little here

for these reasons, I much prefer the Celts grab Ingram

That's a fair point. Simmons has a high IQ so I'd hope he picks stuff up quickly. If he wasn't starting on day one I'd at the very least expect him to break into the starting lineup mid way through the year.

Ingram wouldn't start the whole year I would think. Unless at the 2 in spurts or because of injuries. Better to let him ease into his game against second units. I still think Simmons is the number one prospect though. Ingram will be a fine player but Simmons has the ability to take over a game without having a jump shot. That's scary. If he can make his jump shot even respectable then it takes him to MVP level during his career.

[saltlover]

Either Ingram or Simmons would have a chance to earn a place in the rotation and starting lineup, both during training camp and throughout the season.  I don't expect them to be handed playing time for playing time's sake, but I do think both are perfectly capable of playing 20-30 minutes per game as rookies.  If they didn't, I would blame the players themselves and not Stevens.

[A Future of Stevens]

He would take the Sully's spot and I doubt we would miss him.

Ingram starts on the bench here. Crowder is a top 15 SF. Tough to unseat. Ingram would start on most other lottery pick teams.

I doubt Ingram would not start.  He has twice the talent of Crowder and shoot.   We lack offense.  Crowder would be dealt for another asset if we got Ingram.   Crowder plays hard and we all love him but he is an effort guy.  On quite a few teams he would be off the bench, he might start a few games but Ingram would quickly take his spot.  Ingram needs strength but we need scoring pop badly.   Crowder would be better on D, for certain, but shooting wise he is not even remotely close.  I think we would deal JC to make room for him.

Compare these college highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFo78Vo51qY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVlUSyHoojU

Not even close in terms of talent.

That's crazy talk, Crowder is not getting dealt to make way for any rookie. When Ingram has proved he is capable of being the starter then maybe. It's very rare for a serious playoff team to slot even a top rookie into the starting role. Ingram's body likely means he comes off the bench in the first year

Simmons starts from day one. NBA ready body and a unique skill set that makes him a mismatch at the PF spot

We all like to believe Simmons will start. But this is CBS not Brett Brown

I don't think he does. Not right away

Interesting point, but there is precedent for Stevens starting rookies. Smart started during stretches in his rookie year, and Simmons will probably be a better prospect his first year than smart was during his.

This coupled with the fact that we are kind of weak at the pf spot, and Simmons can bring us the rebounding versatility of a sully, with the passing ability of nobody on our roster.

Your cover pic is not working - fyi

Smart was everywhere that 1st year.  Nothing solid

Even though Simmons is a top talent, can he understand the nuisances of CBS system so quickly? It is an advanced system where go with X if not Y  or while in X adjust to Z depending etc.

this is not "freewheeling"  type of system. Except in situations you are struggling like crap and its like give it to IT and get out of the way.   But this only happens after IT also "perfects" the understanding of the system

If you see CBS he doesn't really get upset when "properly" executed shots taken/are missed.  BUT if you miss a rotation, in the wrong place, don't box out, miss one "tiny" step,  it shows 100 x magnified in his facial reaction even if he doesn't "spazz"

TBH this is where the problem comes in with Simmons.  He is a world talent but his emotions wavered during quarter to quarter , game to game. Especially during crucial moments.  And him skipping class (for whatever the case) is not a good sign he is going to break through the wall to "perfect" to understand plays/system.  I don't know I could be jumping the gun a little here

for these reasons, I much prefer the Celts grab Ingram

Very valid points, but I've never understood the connection between skipping classes and not being able to study basketball. He obviously loves basketball.

Our nba society makes him either a.) Go to college for a 1 and done, or b) go overseas and watch your draft stock slip.

He did the "mature thing" and went to college which is an archaic system anyway. Of course he stopped going to school once his season was over. Contrary to what we want to believe, these aren't student athletes. They are professional athletes forced to make money for big education.

In my opinion it shows a clear focus and ability to prioritize his future and the sport he loves, over showing up and taking American history 102, buried cities and lost tribes, and basket weaving 117.