My Thoughts on the Celtics Off-season

[SHAQATTACK]

I still say build around Boogie.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I still say build around Boogie.

Boogie has displayed some cockiness that borders on uncoachable. He doesn't rotate on defense, does cusses out coaches, and definitely is a difficult player to play with.

He might need 5 more years before he gets over these issues, kinda' like Rasheed.

I like him. Smart, Crowder, and (potentially) Butler would take no crap from him, which could be explosive. But imagine if somehow we could put Cousins, Smart, Crowder, and Butler on the court at the same time. We would be frustratingly physical.

[mctyson]

Smart - I like Smart a lot, but I think Rozier has a higher ceiling. Smart is in the same category as Crowder and Bradley. I think he can be a 12-5-5 guy in the NBA and an all-defensive player, but he is more raw than Rozier and cannot be a first or second option. Maybe a third option if he develops.

Thoughts? Love some conversation on this.

You lose me here. Smart is a superior defender to what Rozier can be.  At best Rozier could be something like Bradley, but he can never do what Smart does.

Not every player has to project to a 16+ per game scorer in this league to be great.  Look at any NBA dynasty or championship team...they all had "those guys."  Smart is one of them, you don't get rid of guys like that for the promise of someone who may not be as good.

[ThePaintedArea]

You trade Amir and his huge contract/Brooklyn Pick(s) for a Star.

Once upon a time, 12M was a lot of money.

All the Picks are on the Trade Table on Draft Night---Ainge HAS to get a deal done that day....or we will just end up signing another Amir Johson type, non-difference maker.

I think that he was one of their top four players.

K.O. is on the cusp of being really good----just needs to toughen uo.

If you mean, "needs to add lower body strength", then I'm with you.

The Rookies can all go---I don't see any of them (except maybe Hunter) being in this league in 5 years...Ainge should have taken Portis over Rozier.

I think that you've got a point about Portis and Rozier, though the best you could say would be that Portis was less awful when he was on the floor.

Interesting that you see a future for Hunter; I think he can be an effective ball-handler in the p&r - he needs to get better at shot-making, pronto. If only you could give him Rozier's body, which was made to play NBA defense.

On the other hand, you didn't mention Jordan Mickey, who looks like he might be that rarest of unicorns: a rim-protector who can shoot with range. I think that he's got the biggest upside of the three.

[trickybilly]

You trade Amir and his huge contract/Brooklyn Pick(s) for a Star.

Once upon a time, 12M was a lot of money.

All the Picks are on the Trade Table on Draft Night---Ainge HAS to get a deal done that day....or we will just end up signing another Amir Johson type, non-difference maker.

I think that he was one of their top four players.

K.O. is on the cusp of being really good----just needs to toughen uo.

If you mean, "needs to add lower body strength", then I'm with you.

The Rookies can all go---I don't see any of them (except maybe Hunter) being in this league in 5 years...Ainge should have taken Portis over Rozier.

I think that you've got a point about Portis and Rozier, though the best you could say would be that Portis was less awful when he was on the floor.

Interesting that you see a future for Hunter; I think he can be an effective ball-handler in the p&r - he needs to get better at shot-making, pronto. If only you could give him Rozier's body, which was made to play NBA defense.

On the other hand, you didn't mention Jordan Mickey, who looks like he might be that rarest of unicorns: a rim-protector who can shoot with range. I think that he's got the biggest upside of the three.

Hunter himself said that his body is the main thing he will be working on over summer. I'm all in on Hunter. His positioning is always good, he just gets bullied when he man drives at him and gets bounced out of the way to easy. His shooting mechanics are just too pretty for him not to be a great shooter, although I willing to eat my words on that..

[max215]

I agree with most of your analysis of the guys already on the roster.

My tentative Big Board- Ingram, Simmons, Bender, Hield, Brown
Later Picks- Luwawu, Skal, Chriss, Davis

Free Agent Targets: Durant, Batum, Bazemore, Horford (if Durant demands him), Dwight (if he takes a short contract), Biyombo (maybe he'll take an Amir-type deal if we can't find another option at center for next year)

Free Agents to Avoid: DeRozan, Whiteside, Conley, Gasol, Parsons

Trade Targets: DeMarcus Cousins (write a blank check for him), Butler (get him as long as the price is not otherworldly), Griffin (I'm concerned about the hand, the quad, and his reliance on athleticism, but he's a top 10 guy), Love (I'd take him, but no chance I give up Crowder)

I think we are on the same train of thought with most of this.

I agree with your avoid list, except for Parsons and Conley. Why?

Why don't you have Jamal Murray higher to draft?

I'd be willing to give up Bradley, Smart(or a Brooklyn 17 pick), 16 Dallas pick, and the 18 Memphis pick for Butler. That's a lot, but I think Butler is a perfect fit in CBS system.

1. Parsons and Conley: both are good players without a doubt, but have major injury concerns and will command a ton of money. I also think we have no need for Conley.

2. Murray's athleticism concerns me, and I think the idea that he could play Point in the NBA is laughable. I'd feel much more comfortable just taking Hield, who I'm confident will, at the very least, be a good shooter at the NBA level.

3. I like Butler. I'd probably do Bradley, the 2016 Nets Pick, and some throw-ins. I would make Crowder untouchable in negotiations.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I agree with most of your analysis of the guys already on the roster.

My tentative Big Board- Ingram, Simmons, Bender, Hield, Brown
Later Picks- Luwawu, Skal, Chriss, Davis

Free Agent Targets: Durant, Batum, Bazemore, Horford (if Durant demands him), Dwight (if he takes a short contract), Biyombo (maybe he'll take an Amir-type deal if we can't find another option at center for next year)

Free Agents to Avoid: DeRozan, Whiteside, Conley, Gasol, Parsons

Trade Targets: DeMarcus Cousins (write a blank check for him), Butler (get him as long as the price is not otherworldly), Griffin (I'm concerned about the hand, the quad, and his reliance on athleticism, but he's a top 10 guy), Love (I'd take him, but no chance I give up Crowder)

I think we are on the same train of thought with most of this.

I agree with your avoid list, except for Parsons and Conley. Why?

Why don't you have Jamal Murray higher to draft?

I'd be willing to give up Bradley, Smart(or a Brooklyn 17 pick), 16 Dallas pick, and the 18 Memphis pick for Butler. That's a lot, but I think Butler is a perfect fit in CBS system.

1. Parsons and Conley: both are good players without a doubt, but have major injury concerns and will command a ton of money. I also think we have no need for Conley.

2. Murray's athleticism concerns me, and I think the idea that he could play Point in the NBA is laughable. I'd feel much more comfortable just taking Hield, who I'm confident will, at the very least, be a good shooter at the NBA level.

3. I like Butler. I'd probably do Bradley, the 2016 Nets Pick, and some throw-ins. I would make Crowder untouchable in negotiations.

Makes sense, but I'm higher on Murray that you are. I think he is an All-star.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Smart - I like Smart a lot, but I think Rozier has a higher ceiling. Smart is in the same category as Crowder and Bradley. I think he can be a 12-5-5 guy in the NBA and an all-defensive player, but he is more raw than Rozier and cannot be a first or second option. Maybe a third option if he develops.

Thoughts? Love some conversation on this.

You lose me here. Smart is a superior defender to what Rozier can be.  At best Rozier could be something like Bradley, but he can never do what Smart does.

Not every player has to project to a 16+ per game scorer in this league to be great.  Look at any NBA dynasty or championship team...they all had "those guys."  Smart is one of them, you don't get rid of guys like that for the promise of someone who may not be as good.

I agree with you on Smart. He is special. I am on his bandwagon, and will not get off.

That might tell you how high I am on Rozier's two-way potential as a great defender and playmaker.

[Evantime34]

I live in Iowa. I have no Celtic fans around me. This is literally my only outlet for Celtics talk.

Nothing I say here will be ground-breaking, but I'd like to have a conversation about my team.

Thomas - I love Isaiah Thomas. He is a starting point guard. He played pretty good defense toward the end of the year. He's got it, but he can't be the guy. If you may him a second or third scoring option, I think he becomes more efficient and way more scary for opposing teams. I want Thomas to retire a Celtic.

Jae Crowder - I love Crowder. He is one of the best two-way players in the NBA, but he has maxed out his offensive potential. He does not have a real post game. He does not have floaters. He doesn't really have pullups. He is really good as a spotup shooter, transition lane filler, and straight line driver, but I don't think he can develop any more offense. Ideally, he is the fourth starter. I want Jae Crowder to stay a Celtic, but if he is the bait to get Jimmy Butler, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, and (maybe) Kevin love or Demarcus Cousins, I think we have to do it.

Avery Bradley - Bradley is essentially the guard version of Jae Crowder. He is best as a fourth starter, but if he can be bait, I'd trade him or Crowder, but probably not both.

Zeller, Sullinger, Johnson, Jerebko - I like them all, but I'm not going to cry if any walk. Of the four, I like Johnson best. He's like the perfect glue guy.

Rozier - I'm all-in on Rozier as a future all-star. I know that may undercut everything I say for some of you, but I'm all-in. He has elite competitiveness and athleticism. He can score in a variety of creative ways. He can get to the basket. He can pass. He is still raw, but I like Rozier so much that I am ready to trade Smart.

Smart - I like Smart a lot, but I think Rozier has a higher ceiling. Smart is in the same category as Crowder and Bradley. I think he can be a 12-5-5 guy in the NBA and an all-defensive player, but he is more raw than Rozier and cannot be a first or second option. Maybe a third option if he develops.

Mickey, Hunter - Both are promising. I'd like to see a good showing this summer league.

Young - Trade him. I hear too many things about the dude to think he is ready to be an NBA player. I'm out.

Top 5 Draft Board with Brooklyn Pick - Simmons, Ingram, Murray, Brown, Bender

Top 5 Draft Board for later picks - Chriss, Luwawu, Maker, Valentine, Bembry

Top Trade Targets: Jimmy Butler, Blake Griffin, Demarcus Cousins, Kevin Love, Carmelo Anthony, Gordon Hayward, Brook Lopez

Top Free Agent Targets: Durant, DeRozan, Conley, Batum, Parsons

Thoughts? Love some conversation on this.

I'm surprised by the Rozier part. What do you think we will see from him next year? I'm not as high on him but I think he can be a good solid 4th guard as a 3 and d type.

In what ways is Smart more raw than Rozier? Can you explain this.

I also think Jae Crowder and Bradley can still improve offensively. I expect both to improve their ability to run the pick & roll and attack off the dribble.

[Celtics4ever]

In what ways is Smart more raw than Rozier? Can you explain this.

Dribbling comes to mind

[max215]

I agree with most of your analysis of the guys already on the roster.

My tentative Big Board- Ingram, Simmons, Bender, Hield, Brown
Later Picks- Luwawu, Skal, Chriss, Davis

Free Agent Targets: Durant, Batum, Bazemore, Horford (if Durant demands him), Dwight (if he takes a short contract), Biyombo (maybe he'll take an Amir-type deal if we can't find another option at center for next year)

Free Agents to Avoid: DeRozan, Whiteside, Conley, Gasol, Parsons

Trade Targets: DeMarcus Cousins (write a blank check for him), Butler (get him as long as the price is not otherworldly), Griffin (I'm concerned about the hand, the quad, and his reliance on athleticism, but he's a top 10 guy), Love (I'd take him, but no chance I give up Crowder)

I think we are on the same train of thought with most of this.

I agree with your avoid list, except for Parsons and Conley. Why?

Why don't you have Jamal Murray higher to draft?

I'd be willing to give up Bradley, Smart(or a Brooklyn 17 pick), 16 Dallas pick, and the 18 Memphis pick for Butler. That's a lot, but I think Butler is a perfect fit in CBS system.

1. Parsons and Conley: both are good players without a doubt, but have major injury concerns and will command a ton of money. I also think we have no need for Conley.

2. Murray's athleticism concerns me, and I think the idea that he could play Point in the NBA is laughable. I'd feel much more comfortable just taking Hield, who I'm confident will, at the very least, be a good shooter at the NBA level.

3. I like Butler. I'd probably do Bradley, the 2016 Nets Pick, and some throw-ins. I would make Crowder untouchable in negotiations.

Makes sense, but I'm higher on Murray that you are. I think he is an All-star.

I could absolutely see that happening, but I have my concerns.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

If he gets the playing time (which is hard when guys ahead of him are more settled as players in their roles), I think he could be at 20 mpg, 10 ppg, 4 rpg, 2 apg, on 42% 32% 78%. He is a more competitive Eric Bledsoe.

Rozier looks way more comfortable than Smart at scoring in every way except posting up. Rozier has left and right hand finishing and floaters. He has step-backs, the mid-range game, and very consistent form on his outside jumpshot. I think Smart has some of those things in his game, but he is far more raw in terms of rhythm and feel for getting those shots.

Agree to disagree on Crowder and Bradley. I could see both of them getting more confident in their roles, but not adding anything of significant value to a team offense.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I could absolutely see that happening, but I have my concerns.

Not many 18 year olds have his feel for the game. I like his three point shot better long-term than I like Hield's. He may not be super explosive, but his agility and feel in tight spaces is elite.

I obviously like Simmons the best, but I don't think that Murray is as far behind Ingram as people think. That's why I'm ok with landing 3rd.

We'd need to figure out what to do with the rest of our guards, but picking early is about picking the best player available.

[Celtics4ever]

Lose Bender from your big board and it gets stronger.  He did not produce overseas in the Israeli league, how many of those guys break into the league and do well.   Name a few???

Sully has to go, four years of non professionalism and get a big that plays on both ends.  Zeller is the perfect third stringer.

[max215]

I could absolutely see that happening, but I have my concerns.

Not many 18 year olds have his feel for the game. I like his three point shot better long-term than I like Hield's. He may not be super explosive, but his agility and feel in tight spaces is elite.

I'm worried by his performance against NBA-quality defenders, and think he ultimately ends up as a 6th man gunner (and probably a good one at that), but I guess we won't know for several years.