Tim Bontemps predicts Jimmy Butler will be traded to Boston

[LGC88]

Jimmy Butler for a 42 win Bulls team:  20.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.6 steals, 45%/31%/83%
Ricky Davis for a 33 win Celtic team:  19.7 points, 5.3 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 46%/32%/79%

Neither made the playoffs.   Butler had former MVP Derrick Rose, 6x All-star Pau Gasol, last year's ROY runnerup Nikola Mirotic and a solid bench of players like Taj Gibson. 

I wouldn't mind bringing in Butler, but I'm not overpaying for premium-brand Ricky Davis.

Jimmy Butler for a 50-win Bulls team: 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.8 steals, 46.2%/37.8%/83.4%

Ricky Davis Career stats:  13.5 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1 steal 45%/36%/78% in 29.8mpg

Jimmy Butler Career stats:  13.6 points, 2.6 assists, 4.5 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 45%/33%/81% in 31.2mpg

Dude cmon now. You know you're just using career stats to have a (lame) reason to not want butler. You know jimmy didn't get a ton of time in his earlier years, and was only getting PT for his defense, right?

Yeah, I also know I've seen articles from Bulls fans who said his defense cratered once he was given a larger offensive role. 

Honestly, I haven't watched enough of Butler to really have a major opinion one way or the other.  Did you guys watch a ton of Bulls games this year?  I just know what I've read about him.  I'm fine with bringing him in, but I wouldn't overpay for him. 

As a 23 year old Ricky Davis put up Butler-esque stats of 20.6 points, 5.5 assists, 4.9 rebounds and 1.6 steals... It was his 5th season.  He was an effective player for a number of years.

This was Butler's 5th season.  The 26 year old has game.  Davis was a bit of a headcase (though I've heard Butler has a little of that in him as well) and Butler is widely believed to be a better defensive player (though playing for a team with an elite defensive identity impacted that a bit).   I'm not saying Davis was better than Butler.  I'm just saying that we've seen guys put up big stats for losers in the past.   I wouldn't mind trading for Butler if the price is right.  I wouldn't hold my breathe on him being the franchise player the team needs.

Your problem is instead of reading articles written about Butler from credible news sources or watching Bulls games, you are getting your information from uninformed and biased Bulls fans on blog sites. That's like trying to learn more about the Celtics players by listening to Celtics fans that post on Celticsblog. If people did that and took BBallTim seriously they would believe that Rondo was better than Jordan. If those people listened to triboy they would think Jordan Mickey was better than Bill Russell. If they listened to our group of young posters that love tanking they would have been convinced Ainge was an incompetent boob for not going all Hinkie. If they listened to some others they would be convinced Isaish Thomas isn't an All-Star caliber talent and should be coming off the bench. If they listened to you they would have been convinced that the Nets pick wouldn't have stood a chance at landing in the top ten of the lottery.

Time to start getting your information from better sources LB. Jimmy Butler is ten times the player Ricky Davis ever was.

Jesus... that's a heck of a post! lol TP

[greece66]

LarBrd33, it's not working for ya. Butler is a darn good player we can't skew that fact simply because we don't think he alone is the answer.


Too often people lose their sanity and end up saying the most ridiculous things about a player just because they don't like them.

I'm obviously not trying to take this seriously.  I go back to my original comment in this thread:

Don't overpay for butler unless it guarantees you Durant.  Butler is overrated.

You gotta figure the price starts at all our draft picks this season (Brooklyn, Boston, Dallas, the 2nds)... maybe also Crowder, Smart, or Bradley.  Are you cool with that? 

I'm ok with overpaying for him if it gets us Durant.  Otherwise, I think we should be really careful.  We could quickly give up too many assets and have no room for a follow-up move.  And simply adding Butler to this team isn't going to move the needle as much as I think some people here want.  I don't see him as a top-tier player.  A lot of people see him as a top-tier player... thus, he's overrated.  You know who apparently doesn't see him as a top-tier player?  The hypothetical Bulls team that is hypothetically willing to trade a prime under-contract Butler for picks.  That hypothetical team apparently doesn't see him as a franchise player either.

Now, if you're to tell me that Butler guarantees us two max-contract players (Durant + Horford), all bets are off.   We could hypothetically trade for Butler while maintaining double-max cap space, but in that scenario we'd need to send back close to 17 mil to make the contracts work.  That would almost guarantee Avery Bradley would be included in the deal since his 9 mil is our largest contract (Amir, Sully, Zeller, Jerebko and Turner all need to be renounced in this scenario to free up double max space).

Trading for a superstar is much more expensive than getting one in the Free Agency.
Only do it if you are confident you can build a contender.

[LGC88]

I let Danny figure out the value of Butler and I'll be fine with whatever he'll give for him.
Butler looks like a Celtics to me, he fits and will be deadly defensively with Brad.

[Csfan1984]

LarBrd33, it's not working for ya. Butler is a darn good player we can't skew that fact simply because we don't think he alone is the answer.


Too often people lose their sanity and end up saying the most ridiculous things about a player just because they don't like them.

I'm obviously not trying to take this seriously.  I go back to my original comment in this thread:

Don't overpay for butler unless it guarantees you Durant.  Butler is overrated.

You gotta figure the price starts at all our draft picks this season (Brooklyn, Boston, Dallas, the 2nds)... maybe also Crowder, Smart, or Bradley.  Are you cool with that? 

I'm ok with overpaying for him if it gets us Durant.  Otherwise, I think we should be really careful.  We could quickly give up too many assets and have no room for a follow-up move.  And simply adding Butler to this team isn't going to move the needle as much as I think some people here want.  I don't see him as a top-tier player.  A lot of people see him as a top-tier player... thus, he's overrated.  You know who apparently doesn't see him as a top-tier player?  The hypothetical Bulls team that is hypothetically willing to trade a prime under-contract Butler for picks.  That hypothetical team apparently doesn't see him as a franchise player either.

Now, if you're to tell me that Butler guarantees us two max-contract players (Durant + Horford), all bets are off.   We could hypothetically trade for Butler while maintaining double-max cap space, but in that scenario we'd need to send back close to 17 mil to make the contracts work.  That would almost guarantee Avery Bradley would be included in the deal since his 9 mil is our largest contract (Amir, Sully, Zeller, Jerebko and Turner all need to be renounced in this scenario to free up double max space).

Most don't have issue with not wanting to overpay. No one ever wants to overpay. I was just noticing you were kind of losing it on Butler down grading him way too much. The way you compared him it's almost as if he was a Celtic already....

[merkins]

It looks like the Davis and Butler comparisons have been beat to death.  Each side is going to see what they want to in the numbers.

The real question is that is Butter just a lesser cut of Toine?  I'm pretty sure he had better offensive numbers and rebounds than Butler.  I wouldn't give much for him as I'm not sure that's what the Celtics need right now. 

[Future Celtics Owner]

LarBrd33, it's not working for ya. Butler is a darn good player we can't skew that fact simply because we don't think he alone is the answer.


Too often people lose their sanity and end up saying the most ridiculous things about a player just because they don't like them.

I'm obviously not trying to take this seriously.  I go back to my original comment in this thread:

Don't overpay for butler unless it guarantees you Durant.  Butler is overrated.

You gotta figure the price starts at all our draft picks this season (Brooklyn, Boston, Dallas, the 2nds)... maybe also Crowder, Smart, or Bradley.  Are you cool with that? 

I'm ok with overpaying for him if it gets us Durant.  Otherwise, I think we should be really careful.  We could quickly give up too many assets and have no room for a follow-up move.  And simply adding Butler to this team isn't going to move the needle as much as I think some people here want.  I don't see him as a top-tier player.  A lot of people see him as a top-tier player... thus, he's overrated.  You know who apparently doesn't see him as a top-tier player?  The hypothetical Bulls team that is hypothetically willing to trade a prime under-contract Butler for picks.  That hypothetical team apparently doesn't see him as a franchise player either.

Now, if you're to tell me that Butler guarantees us two max-contract players (Durant + Horford), all bets are off.   We could hypothetically trade for Butler while maintaining double-max cap space, but in that scenario we'd need to send back close to 17 mil to make the contracts work.  That would almost guarantee Avery Bradley would be included in the deal since his 9 mil is our largest contract (Amir, Sully, Zeller, Jerebko and Turner all need to be renounced in this scenario to free up double max space).

Most don't have issue with not wanting to overpay. No one ever wants to overpay. I was just noticing you were kind of losing it on Butler down grading him way too much. The way you compared him it's almost as if he was a Celtic already....

Butler is not worth all our picks this season and starters. The Bulls may not be the best team to trade with. We need to get that disgruntled star, and the most disgruntled also happens to be the rarest commodity in the NBA: a big-man that is actually HUGE and a legit 2-WAY CENTER.

Demarcus Cousins would cost us our nets pick, if it's a top 2 pick, and that would probably be that. Maybe we throw in some 2nd's and d-league players, but in the end the smartest move is to trade for Cousins. Then sign Durant and sell him on reuniting with Ibaka/Westbrook in 2017 FA.

Also, what do you think about signing 23 year old Evan fournier, IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT/CHEAP and if we are letting ET go. IMO bc he had a really inconsistent year he may be overlooked. He still put up good numbers overall and shot 40% from 3 with 1.2 steals and 15ppg. The first 2 months of the season he was killing it, then he fell off and on and off and on....

[TheFlex]

Beal interests me more than Butler does.

I know Butler is a clear upgrade over any two-way player we have, and, if healthy, probably any player we have period. But a two-way wing is not what this current team lacks. It appears as if Butler's greatest appeal is a) his conspicuous availability and b) supposed ability to attract Durant. Both warrant legitimate interest in an All-Star like JB, but I'm not convinced there isn't a better way to simultaneously improve our campaign for Durant while adding to our current core in the (likely) event that KD doesn't come. Adding Butler without Durant, while certainly a step forward, would not definitely elevate Boston to the level of championship contention necessary to justify his pricetag. That's especially true if we give up two-way players only a cut or two below Butler like Bradley and/or Crowder in such a deal.

My guess is the Wizards have no interest in moving Beal except in a deal that would package Beal + pieces for another superstar to pair with Wall. If, for whatever foolish reason, they would liquidate Beal's value for players and picks, Danny should jump on it. Regardless of his injury history, Beal is the premier shooting prospect in the 22-and-under club. Aside from his potential as an all-around superstar, the Celtics simply need shooters -- and Beal would help tremendously, even if he never makes another leap. He has already proven his ability in the postseason during two separate playoff runs that lasted 11 and 10 games each. He is the real deal.

[Celtics4ever]

Quote
Beal interests me more than Butler does.

I know Butler is a clear upgrade over any two-way player we have, and, if healthy, probably any player we have period. But a two-way wing is not what this current team lacks

Honestly, we should always seek guys who are two way players.  I know you have supported guys in the past who were not.   But don't you want guys who play on both ends of the court.

I think Beal is a fine option if we can't get Butler. 

But much of your post presumes we will not make major changes in the team.   I think we might see a trade of assets and picks to get a player.   Then our needs may change drastically.  If we do not Beal might be worth getting.   

But given a choice, I always want a guy who plays on both ends.

[Irish Stew]

Jaylen Brown to me in this draft is a better option than jimmy butler and we don't have to give up anything for him except selecting him.

How many years away from Butler's current level is Jaylen Brown?

Edit: This is not a rhetorical question. I'm genuinely looking for an answer here.

My answer would be: a lifetime away.

[chambers]

Beal interests me more than Butler does.

I know Butler is a clear upgrade over any two-way player we have, and, if healthy, probably any player we have period. But a two-way wing is not what this current team lacks. It appears as if Butler's greatest appeal is a) his conspicuous availability and b) supposed ability to attract Durant. Both warrant legitimate interest in an All-Star like JB, but I'm not convinced there isn't a better way to simultaneously improve our campaign for Durant while adding to our current core in the (likely) event that KD doesn't come. Adding Butler without Durant, while certainly a step forward, would not definitely elevate Boston to the level of championship contention necessary to justify his pricetag. That's especially true if we give up two-way players only a cut or two below Butler like Bradley and/or Crowder in such a deal.

My guess is the Wizards have no interest in moving Beal except in a deal that would package Beal + pieces for another superstar to pair with Wall. If, for whatever foolish reason, they would liquidate Beal's value for players and picks, Danny should jump on it. Regardless of his injury history, Beal is the premier shooting prospect in the 22-and-under club. Aside from his potential as an all-around superstar, the Celtics simply need shooters -- and Beal would help tremendously, even if he never makes another leap. He has already proven his ability in the postseason during two separate playoff runs that lasted 11 and 10 games each. He is the real deal.

Beal is going to be on minutes restrictions for the rest of his career. He had the potential to be a top 10 player but he's made of glass unfortunately.
At this stage I'd much prefer Butler.

He's a top 10 scorer and a top 10 defender. Guys like that don't grow on trees.

[Smitty77]

Beal interests me more than Butler does.

I know Butler is a clear upgrade over any two-way player we have, and, if healthy, probably any player we have period. But a two-way wing is not what this current team lacks. It appears as if Butler's greatest appeal is a) his conspicuous availability and b) supposed ability to attract Durant. Both warrant legitimate interest in an All-Star like JB, but I'm not convinced there isn't a better way to simultaneously improve our campaign for Durant while adding to our current core in the (likely) event that KD doesn't come. Adding Butler without Durant, while certainly a step forward, would not definitely elevate Boston to the level of championship contention necessary to justify his pricetag. That's especially true if we give up two-way players only a cut or two below Butler like Bradley and/or Crowder in such a deal.

My guess is the Wizards have no interest in moving Beal except in a deal that would package Beal + pieces for another superstar to pair with Wall. If, for whatever foolish reason, they would liquidate Beal's value for players and picks, Danny should jump on it. Regardless of his injury history, Beal is the premier shooting prospect in the 22-and-under club. Aside from his potential as an all-around superstar, the Celtics simply need shooters -- and Beal would help tremendously, even if he never makes another leap. He has already proven his ability in the postseason during two separate playoff runs that lasted 11 and 10 games each. He is the real deal.

Beal is going to be on minutes restrictions for the rest of his career. He had the potential to be a top 10 player but he's made of glass unfortunately.
At this stage I'd much prefer Butler.

He's a top 10 scorer and a top 10 defender. Guys like that don't grow on trees.

Butler is NOT a top 10 defender EVEN at his SG position, where he is #11.

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

Beal interests me more than Butler does.

I know Butler is a clear upgrade over any two-way player we have, and, if healthy, probably any player we have period. But a two-way wing is not what this current team lacks. It appears as if Butler's greatest appeal is a) his conspicuous availability and b) supposed ability to attract Durant. Both warrant legitimate interest in an All-Star like JB, but I'm not convinced there isn't a better way to simultaneously improve our campaign for Durant while adding to our current core in the (likely) event that KD doesn't come. Adding Butler without Durant, while certainly a step forward, would not definitely elevate Boston to the level of championship contention necessary to justify his pricetag. That's especially true if we give up two-way players only a cut or two below Butler like Bradley and/or Crowder in such a deal.

My guess is the Wizards have no interest in moving Beal except in a deal that would package Beal + pieces for another superstar to pair with Wall. If, for whatever foolish reason, they would liquidate Beal's value for players and picks, Danny should jump on it. Regardless of his injury history, Beal is the premier shooting prospect in the 22-and-under club. Aside from his potential as an all-around superstar, the Celtics simply need shooters -- and Beal would help tremendously, even if he never makes another leap. He has already proven his ability in the postseason during two separate playoff runs that lasted 11 and 10 games each. He is the real deal.

Beal is going to be on minutes restrictions for the rest of his career. He had the potential to be a top 10 player but he's made of glass unfortunately.
At this stage I'd much prefer Butler.

He's a top 10 scorer and a top 10 defender. Guys like that don't grow on trees.

BTW, Butler was the 18th best SG defender in 2014-2015.  This year, he was the 125th best defender in the NBA.

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

Beal interests me more than Butler does.

I know Butler is a clear upgrade over any two-way player we have, and, if healthy, probably any player we have period. But a two-way wing is not what this current team lacks. It appears as if Butler's greatest appeal is a) his conspicuous availability and b) supposed ability to attract Durant. Both warrant legitimate interest in an All-Star like JB, but I'm not convinced there isn't a better way to simultaneously improve our campaign for Durant while adding to our current core in the (likely) event that KD doesn't come. Adding Butler without Durant, while certainly a step forward, would not definitely elevate Boston to the level of championship contention necessary to justify his pricetag. That's especially true if we give up two-way players only a cut or two below Butler like Bradley and/or Crowder in such a deal.

My guess is the Wizards have no interest in moving Beal except in a deal that would package Beal + pieces for another superstar to pair with Wall. If, for whatever foolish reason, they would liquidate Beal's value for players and picks, Danny should jump on it. Regardless of his injury history, Beal is the premier shooting prospect in the 22-and-under club. Aside from his potential as an all-around superstar, the Celtics simply need shooters -- and Beal would help tremendously, even if he never makes another leap. He has already proven his ability in the postseason during two separate playoff runs that lasted 11 and 10 games each. He is the real deal.

Wow.  Beal had the 48th most WINS on ESPN's real plus/minus just for SG's.  Really?

He was the 88th WORST SG defender out of 98 SG's.

Smitty77

[MBunge]

Since when is everyone so defensive of non-Celtics?

The guy who just spent a significant amount of the last three years of his life defending EVERYTHING the 76ers have done on this forum does not have the right to write something like that.

Mike

[CFAN38]

Beal interests me more than Butler does.

I know Butler is a clear upgrade over any two-way player we have, and, if healthy, probably any player we have period. But a two-way wing is not what this current team lacks. It appears as if Butler's greatest appeal is a) his conspicuous availability and b) supposed ability to attract Durant. Both warrant legitimate interest in an All-Star like JB, but I'm not convinced there isn't a better way to simultaneously improve our campaign for Durant while adding to our current core in the (likely) event that KD doesn't come. Adding Butler without Durant, while certainly a step forward, would not definitely elevate Boston to the level of championship contention necessary to justify his pricetag. That's especially true if we give up two-way players only a cut or two below Butler like Bradley and/or Crowder in such a deal.

My guess is the Wizards have no interest in moving Beal except in a deal that would package Beal + pieces for another superstar to pair with Wall. If, for whatever foolish reason, they would liquidate Beal's value for players and picks, Danny should jump on it. Regardless of his injury history, Beal is the premier shooting prospect in the 22-and-under club. Aside from his potential as an all-around superstar, the Celtics simply need shooters -- and Beal would help tremendously, even if he never makes another leap. He has already proven his ability in the postseason during two separate playoff runs that lasted 11 and 10 games each. He is the real deal.

Beal is a very good player who can be great if he can ever stay healthy. However I take Butler over him by a long shot. The simple fact is Butler is a 6'7-6'8 all NBA defender who can average near 20pts per game, isnt a shooting liability and is extremely versatile.

Simple way to access things, figuring wither Smart or AB are package with picks for Beal or Butler and the current roster was kept the same outside of the one player trade. Which end of the game lineup matches up better with the Cavs?

Small Ball vs Starters

Irving           IT             IT
Smith           AB            AB
James          Butler       Beal
Love            Crowder   Crowder
Thompson   Amir          Amir

Small Ball vs Small Ball

Irving           IT              IT
Smith           AB             AB
Jefferson     Butler        Beal
James          Crowder   Crowder
Love            Amir          Amir

I personally think the versatility of Bulter makes the Cs dangerous. AB, Bulter and Crowder would give the Cs 3 legit all defensive level perimeter defenders. In the current hawks series Butler would be able to take Turners role as the primary ball handler allowing IT to play off the ball. The increased scoring abilitiy of Butler would make a work of difference.