turner has not only been good

[TA9]

Funny how he made everyone love him. It wasn't too long ago when everybody wanted him gone form this roster.

[mctyson]

his versatility, and durability coupled with his contract made him a steal-hope he has a great series and resigns with us-

Not to be the debbie downer - but he is the only regular rotation player on the team that has a worse net rating when he is on the court versus off it.

[CoachBo]

Funny how he made everyone love him. It wasn't too long ago when everybody wanted him gone form this roster.

There are still people who turn to the folly of sabremetrics to try to justify wanting him gone.

And, of course, to move him out of the way of a draft pick who has disappointed, and who hasn't earned a larger role.

The eyes don't lie.

[mctyson]

Funny how he made everyone love him. It wasn't too long ago when everybody wanted him gone form this roster.

There are still people who turn to the folly of sabremetrics to try to justify wanting him gone.

The eyes don't lie.

There is nothing 'folly' about the fact that the team simply doesn't do as well while he's on the court.  And I like Turner, I want him on the team.  But the above statement is a fact.

[Quetzalcoatl]

We were outscored by 591 points when he was on the court.  He's awful and a turnover machine, I can't wait for another team to overpay him

[CoachBo]

Funny how he made everyone love him. It wasn't too long ago when everybody wanted him gone form this roster.

There are still people who turn to the folly of sabremetrics to try to justify wanting him gone.

The eyes don't lie.

There is nothing 'folly' about the fact that the team simply doesn't do as well while he's on the court.  And I like Turner, I want him on the team.  But the above statement is a fact.

I feel sort of sorry for people who call sabremetrics "fact."

They are hardly fact. Most are flawed, and can be easily dismissed.

The eyes don't lie. Turner is an asset to this ball club. I have no interest, and I attach no significance, to a contrived, flawed attempt to reduce an intangible-laden sport to numbers. You either know what you're watching. Or you don't.

[D Dub]

Welcome back, coach.  TP for the cameo


PS- you were right about Posey 😜

[Quetzalcoatl]

We have no back up SF and Smart has been disappointing as an offensive player, so we basically play Turner by default.  I'd much rather get a different back up SF though and hope Smart and Rozier progress than resign Turner.  Him passing the ball to the other team with his head down every third play hardly counts as "passing the eye test."  The teams who use advanced stats the most are Golden State, Dallas, San Antonio, Boston, Toronto and Houston - I mean it works.  The Grizzlies are an "eye test", anti-stats team and they're the worst playoff team in years. 

[mctyson]

Funny how he made everyone love him. It wasn't too long ago when everybody wanted him gone form this roster.

There are still people who turn to the folly of sabremetrics to try to justify wanting him gone.

The eyes don't lie.

There is nothing 'folly' about the fact that the team simply doesn't do as well while he's on the court.  And I like Turner, I want him on the team.  But the above statement is a fact.

I feel sort of sorry for people who call sabremetrics "fact."

They are hardly fact. Most are flawed, and can be easily dismissed.

The eyes don't lie. Turner is an asset to this ball club. I have no interest, and I attach no significance, to a contrived, flawed attempt to reduce an intangible-laden sport to numbers. You either know what you're watching. Or you don't.

Your eyes are not facts. 

Numbers are. 

There is nothing flawed about the numbers that say a team scored more points than the other in a basketball game. 

When Evan Turner is on the floor for the Celtics, the Celtics are not as good at scoring more points than the other team. 

None of this is "contrived."  The game is literally about putting the ball into the basket, and we use numbers to count these things up.  But tell me more about your eyes.

[Big333223]

Funny how he made everyone love him. It wasn't too long ago when everybody wanted him gone form this roster.

There are still people who turn to the folly of sabremetrics to try to justify wanting him gone.

The eyes don't lie.

There is nothing 'folly' about the fact that the team simply doesn't do as well while he's on the court.  And I like Turner, I want him on the team.  But the above statement is a fact.

I feel sort of sorry for people who call sabremetrics "fact."

They are hardly fact. Most are flawed, and can be easily dismissed.

The eyes don't lie. Turner is an asset to this ball club. I have no interest, and I attach no significance, to a contrived, flawed attempt to reduce an intangible-laden sport to numbers. You either know what you're watching. Or you don't.

lol

You seem to be confused about what the word 'fact' means. It is a fact that the Celtics were outscored with Turner on the floor. There are different ways of contextualizing that information (taking into account who he plays against and who he plays alongside, for instance) but it's still a fact. What you see, is not.

[bogg]

Not to be the debbie downer - but he is the only regular rotation player on the team that has a worse net rating when he is on the court versus off it.

Your eyes are not facts.

Numbers are. 

There is nothing flawed about the numbers that say a team scored more points than the other in a basketball game. 

When Evan Turner is on the floor for the Celtics, the Celtics are not as good at scoring more points than the other team. 

None of this is "contrived."  The game is literally about putting the ball into the basket, and we use numbers to count these things up.  But tell me more about your eyes.

This isn't entirely fair, as the team's overall net rating (3.0) is better than the net rating when both Smart (2.6) and Jerebko (2.9) are on the floor as well, but for all three of those guys the team's defensive net rating is better when they're on the floor than the overall rating, and the offensive net rating is worse - that just sort of tells us what we already know from watching the games, that the second string (specifically, when Isaiah isn't on the floor) defends opposing benches really well but struggles to score.

All of this is a roundabout way of saying that the team playing better when Turner is off the floor isn't necessarily evidence that Turner makes the team worse. The need for a secondary ballhandler/creator on the roster should be painfully obvious to anyone watching the games, and for better or worse Turner's the best option on the roster there. Shaun Livingston, a guy whose role in GS is (in my opinion) roughly comparable to what Turner does for the second unit, also has a net rating a few points worse than the Warriors' overall net rating, but that doesn't mean that the Warriors would be well served cutting ties with him this summer. 

[rollie mass]

Smart, quite frankly, has not panned out as I see it. We can find a guard who can defend. This pick is headed for the growing Ainge bust list.

Trying to force progression from an obviously limited player - I am not at all impressed by anything he does offensively, shoot, pass, whatever. His judgment with the ball is atrocious - is a mistake that will damage this franchise.

He hasn't beaten Turner out. Reacting to that by unloading Turner is absolutely the wrong thing the do.

Sigh. I wanted Julius Randle with 6, and so far, I was spot on.

smart was anything but a bust today including the steal and a breakaway put back after the feed to turner-
the big mistake was not going right back to marcus earlier while he was hot and get it to him when he was set -even after a whistle for a foul on isaiah  he nailed a deep three-marcus came through big time coach boooooo

[trickybilly]

We have no back up SF and Smart has been disappointing as an offensive player, so we basically play Turner by default.  I'd much rather get a different back up SF though and hope Smart and Rozier progress than resign Turner.  Him passing the ball to the other team with his head down every third play hardly counts as "passing the eye test."  The teams who use advanced stats the most are Golden State, Dallas, San Antonio, Boston, Toronto and Houston - I mean it works.  The Grizzlies are an "eye test", anti-stats team and they're the worst playoff team in years.

Different like KD, fine.

Ariza, OK.

Who else would you prefer?

[mctyson]

Not to be the debbie downer - but he is the only regular rotation player on the team that has a worse net rating when he is on the court versus off it.

Your eyes are not facts.

Numbers are. 

There is nothing flawed about the numbers that say a team scored more points than the other in a basketball game. 

When Evan Turner is on the floor for the Celtics, the Celtics are not as good at scoring more points than the other team. 

None of this is "contrived."  The game is literally about putting the ball into the basket, and we use numbers to count these things up.  But tell me more about your eyes.

This isn't entirely fair, as the team's overall net rating (3.0) is better than the net rating when both Smart (2.6) and Jerebko (2.9) are on the floor as well, but for all three of those guys the team's defensive net rating is better when they're on the floor than the overall rating, and the offensive net rating is worse - that just sort of tells us what we already know from watching the games, that the second string (specifically, when Isaiah isn't on the floor) defends opposing benches really well but struggles to score.

All of this is a roundabout way of saying that the team playing better when Turner is off the floor isn't necessarily evidence that Turner makes the team worse. The need for a secondary ballhandler/creator on the roster should be painfully obvious to anyone watching the games, and for better or worse Turner's the best option on the roster there. Shaun Livingston, a guy whose role in GS is (in my opinion) roughly comparable to what Turner does for the second unit, also has a net rating a few points worse than the Warriors' overall net rating, but that doesn't mean that the Warriors would be well served cutting ties with him this summer.

I like Turner.  I want him on this team.  But the observation that the team is at its best when he is NOT on the court is completely accurate.

That is not a knock on him either.  Maybe the can build a roster that makes his presence on the court essential. I hope they do.  But right now, on this team, that is not the case. 

[iadera]

Turner has been exactly what this team has needed and he's done very well. But I assume the Celtics are going to go through some changes this summer. We can't bring in as many draft picks as we have and if trades happen, I wouldn't be surprised to see some current players traded or allowed to walk to make room for (hopefully) more talent. If that means Turner walks, I'll be ok with it.

Yes. He's been exactly what this team needed, but I don't think he is capable of being something that next year's team will need. If the team will stay the same, then yeah! But DA wants more I think. We all want.