Let's be clear. Simmons going number one

[KG Living Legend]

 Agree with the last two posts.

[Roy H.]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

I have many of those same concerns.  It's just the mental makeup that concerns me (and the lack of length).

[Vermont Green]

There are definitely some warning flags with Simmons but I don't think any GM would be able to pass on him.  Most of his on court deficiencies relate to skill but physically, he has it all.  And it is not like his skills are horrible, they just aren't elite.

The off court issues that I am aware of don't scare me.  Worst case is the skills don't develop but even as is, he becomes a very good player.  More likely, the skills do continue to develop and he is great with an outside chance that he is all time great.

[Roy H.]

There are definitely some warning flags with Simmons but I don't think any GM would be able to pass on him.  Most of his on court deficiencies relate to skill but physically, he has it all.  And it is not like his skills are horrible, they just aren't elite.

The off court issues that I am aware of don't scare me.  Worst case is the skills don't develop but even as is, he becomes a very good player.  More likely, the skills do continue to develop and he is great with an outside chance that he is all time great.

Physically he had a lot, but he's not perfect. He's got a below-average wingspan and standing reach.

[mmmmm]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

I have many of those same concerns.  It's just the mental makeup that concerns me (and the lack of length).

It's not really very easy to debate the 'mental' criticisms since intangibles tend to be complex and ... intangible.

But length?  I don't understand that concern.  He's basically a 6'9" point guard with a 7' wingspan, a 9' standing reach and a 41" vertical.

For comparison, Draymond Green is only 6' 7", though he has 1 more inch of wingspan, but 3" less of standing reach.

Ingram is an inch taller and has an inch more standing reach.  But no where near the athleticism.

What exactly is it about Simmon's length that concerns you?

[Roy H.]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

I have many of those same concerns.  It's just the mental makeup that concerns me (and the lack of length).

It's not really very easy to debate the 'mental' criticisms since intangibles tend to be complex and ... intangible.

But length?  I don't understand that concern.  He's basically a 6'9" point guard with a 7' wingspan, a 9' standing reach and a 41" vertical.

For comparison, Draymond Green is only 6' 7", though he has 1 more inch of wingspan, but 3" less of standing reach.

Ingram is an inch taller and has an inch more standing reach.  But no where near the athleticism.

What exactly is it about Simmon's length that concerns you?

I think the "point guard" comparisons are way overblown. He's a SF/PF. Since he can't shoot, he's a PF. A PF who can't stretch the floor and who only has a 6'11" wingspan is going to struggle when covered by NBA length. Add to that little hustle and competitiveness, and there are red flags.

As for Ingram, either you or Givony are using false measurements:

Ingram is 14 months younger than Simmons, has a longer wingspan by four inches and a standing reach six and a half inches higher.

[chambers]

I agree 100%

Simmons has Hall of Fame potential.
Ingram would go #1 in most other drafts but Simmons is an Anthony Davis level prospect.

Simmons can impact whichever team he plays for immediately, and he has the most dominating potential.

Ingram could be an All NBA player one day, and perhaps the best player on a championship team, but as a prospect he's still not as juicy as Big Ben.

[mmmmm]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

I have many of those same concerns.  It's just the mental makeup that concerns me (and the lack of length).

It's not really very easy to debate the 'mental' criticisms since intangibles tend to be complex and ... intangible.

But length?  I don't understand that concern.  He's basically a 6'9" point guard with a 7' wingspan, a 9' standing reach and a 41" vertical.

For comparison, Draymond Green is only 6' 7", though he has 1 more inch of wingspan, but 3" less of standing reach.

Ingram is an inch taller and has an inch more standing reach.  But no where near the athleticism.

What exactly is it about Simmon's length that concerns you?

I think the "point guard" comparisons are way overblown. He's a SF/PF. Since he can't shoot, he's a PF. A PF who can't stretch the floor and who only has a 6'11" wingspan is going to struggle when covered by NBA length. Add to that little hustle and competitiveness, and there are red flags.

Wait .. you just magically shrunk his wingspan from the 7' 0.25" he was last measured at, down to 6' 11".   Interesting.

Sure, the "point-guard" comparison is a bit of hyperbole, but the 5.2 assists per 40, pace-adjusted suggests that his passing skills aren't completely overblown.

But okay.  We'll have to rest on allegations of "little hustle and competitiveness".   I can't argue with that.  'Not saying any of that is true.  But it is impossible for me to refute.   If his 'intangibles' really and truly are "red flags" i'm going to leave that up to Danny and his staff to properly vet and I'll trust they make an informed assessment.

But personally, I don't give $.02 weight to such stuff.

I'll stick to assessments based on what I can see and measure.  It may not be enough, but it's all I'm going to trust.

As for Ingram, either you or Givony are using false measurements:

Ingram is 14 months younger than Simmons, has a longer wingspan by four inches and a standing reach six and a half inches higher.

I was using the measurements off of Givony's own web-site, which has Ingram with a 9' 1.5" standing reach.   I mis-remembered his wingspan measurement, which would be 2.75" longer than Simmons. 

Unless my math is wrong, there is absolutely no way that 9'1.5" is six and a half inches higher than 9' 0.5" (Simmons' standing reach on the same web-site).

[Dino Pitino]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

I have many of those same concerns.  It's just the mental makeup that concerns me (and the lack of length).

One NBA executive described him as a “taller Rajon Rondo, a more athletic Evan Turner, or a skinnier Royce White.”

Hmmm. I wonder which NBA exec Givony was quoting, lol. Makes me feel less nervous about the possibility of Ainge turning down Simmons, since he certainly didn't turn down the chance to acquire Rondo or Turner. I mean, a taller Rondo? A more athletic Turner? No way Ainge passes that up. If it really was Ainge, and he feels the need to contribute to Givony's hatchet job in order to influence a team or two to balk so that Simmons drops to us, I totally understand and approve. I hope the same thing is going on with Maker, too. It's gotta be extremely illegal per league rules, but being the one who drafts them and then sings their praises the day after will be a great alibi. "Of course I didn't say those things, I think they're wonderful!" Conspire away, Danny!

[loco_91]

 There has been some crazy talk around here that Ingram or even Hield could go number one overall.

 I'm here to say there is almost no chance of that happening. Big Ben no jumpshot and all is the first pick if the Celtics we take Simmons if Philly or the Lakers get it they take Simmons.

 Just too much talent for anyone to pass on him.

It isn't crazy. Simmons is really talented, but so is Ingram. Ingram has crazy length for a 3 and no glaring weaknesses besides being skinny, and Simmons has crazy quickness, guard skills and rebounding instincts for a 4 but three glaring weaknesses: shooting, length, attitude. Overall, I think it's close, and I personally prefer Ingram who is >1year younger than Simmons and showed better progression over the course of the year. Simmons has higher theoretical upside if he figures out how to shoot enabling him to play the 3, but Ingram is safer with plenty of upside as an unblockable shooter who does everything well.

[Roy H.]

Wait .. you just magically shrunk his wingspan from the 7' 0.25" he was last measured at, down to 6' 11".   Interesting

Magically?

7'0.25" is what LSU lists him at. The two times he was officially measured - at the Hoops Summit and the Nike Skills Academy - it was 6'11". DraftExpress - or at least Givony - uses the 6'11".

Knock it off with the sarcasm and condescending tone. It's against our rules, and it makes you look like a fool when you don't know what you're speaking about.

Unless my math is wrong, there is absolutely no way that 9'1.5" is six and a half inches higher than 9' 0.5" (Simmons' standing reach on the same web-site).

Again, you're using LSU's numbers. His official measurement at the Hoops Summit was 8'7" standing reach. Did his reach grow 5.5" in a couple of months? Maybe, but doubtful. It's why the scouts use the official numbers. When measured at the same camp, Ingram had a 6.5" longer standing reach.

[chambers]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

I have many of those same concerns.  It's just the mental makeup that concerns me (and the lack of length).

It's not really very easy to debate the 'mental' criticisms since intangibles tend to be complex and ... intangible.

But length?  I don't understand that concern.  He's basically a 6'9" point guard with a 7' wingspan, a 9' standing reach and a 41" vertical.

For comparison, Draymond Green is only 6' 7", though he has 1 more inch of wingspan, but 3" less of standing reach.

Ingram is an inch taller and has an inch more standing reach.  But no where near the athleticism.

What exactly is it about Simmon's length that concerns you?

I think the "point guard" comparisons are way overblown. He's a SF/PF. Since he can't shoot, he's a PF. A PF who can't stretch the floor and who only has a 6'11" wingspan is going to struggle when covered by NBA length. Add to that little hustle and competitiveness, and there are red flags.

As for Ingram, either you or Givony are using false measurements:

Ingram is 14 months younger than Simmons, has a longer wingspan by four inches and a standing reach six and a half inches higher.

Assuming he shoots thousands of jumpshots and has his form tweaked by professional coaches it's a pretty big assumption to say that he'll be a PF in the NBA.
He'll probably play point forward because of his size, skill and ball handling ability.

Similarly to Lebron, he's so enormous that he'll be able to bully his way inside vs most defenders at will because he can break people down off the dribble.

Run a few screens for him collecting the ball towards the rim and who's gonna stop him getting where he's going or making the pass to the open shooter?

Do NBA execs envision Simmons as a small forward/point forward or a power forward? I'd say it's overwhelmingly the former.
If he can become an average 3 point shooter he'll be the closest draftee we've seen to Lebron since Lebron was drafted.

Don't forget that NBA teams want PF's that can shoot and drag defenders out of the paint to make room for guys like Simmons to drive to the rim. If those help defenders sag in then Simmons finds the shooters.

[mmmmm]

Wait .. you just magically shrunk his wingspan from the 7' 0.25" he was last measured at, down to 6' 11".   Interesting

Magically?

7'0.25" is what LSU lists him at. The two times he was officially measured - at the Hoops Summit and the Nike Skills Academy - it was 6'11". DraftExpress - or at least Givony - uses the 6'11".

Knock it off with the sarcasm and condescending tone. It's against our rules, and it makes you look like a fool when you don't know what you're speaking about.

Okay Roy.  I'll leave the condescending tone to others.

[LooseCannon]

I could see Ainge binking the #1 pick with some magic ping pong balls, deciding that neither Simmons or Ingram is the player he wants the most, and trading down.

[mmmmm]

I could see Ainge binking the #1 pick with some magic ping pong balls, deciding that neither Simmons or Ingram is the player he wants the most, and trading down.

Yeah, with Ainge, it's probably never safe to predict what he'll do.

I think if he trades the pick, it's probably for a veteran player, rather than to trade down.