Author Topic: Could Hield go #1?  (Read 21428 times)

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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #105 on: April 02, 2016, 11:22:40 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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How many times have you seen Curry go 1 on 1 ISO with everyone to one side ala Lebron

Didn't happen last night against AB

He is good but not the best in the league. Not top 5 either

Lebron, Paul, George, Westbrook, Durant from the top of my head are better. Curry gets a TOn of picks, double picks, then another pick, screens to go through.  Because he goes through a pnr, his man becomrs off balance and he shakes and bakes that doesn't mean he is the best shot creator. Or getting passes, fake shot, dribble to the left , take the shot. 

He goes through the most screens and picks in the league, or one of the most


The Warriors offense is completely different to the Cavs.
The Warriors don't ISO any particular players because their offense is about finding an open shot.
Curry only goes 'ISO' when he needs to or if their half court offense has broken down or there's a mismatch.

Why don't you make a poll about who the best overall offensive player in the NBA is?

Curry is the best offensive player in the NBA. He also has the most steals. He is the leading scorer but only plays 34 minutes a game- about 4 minutes less than most of the other top 5.

Anyway make a poll about it and see what the responses are.
It's clear you haven't watched enough of Curry.

no one is denying of his offensive capabilities.  I already stated he is a master of  utilizing picks/screens/fakes to get his shot off.  But to say he is an amazing 1 on 1 player or only the best is not true.    We saw proof of that last night.   

most if not all of his points game after some kind of assistance he received through picks or screens

I understand GSW play a system to have it work this way but I remember Curry before this current system. And he was still not a great ISO player. 

going back to the original argument, Hield is no Curry . But he has some Curry like qualities such as being really good at utilizing screens/picks (garbage provided by his temmates tonight and also kudos to villanovas D).   He is one of the top shooters of the draft too.  Quick release long range. Unfortunately tonight he was off .   

He did all he could to get a no name team like Oklahoma to the final four

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #106 on: April 03, 2016, 12:12:54 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Hield will not go #1.

Still, if we don't get 1-2, I don't think I'd mind landing Hield with our BKN pick.

- LilRip

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #107 on: April 03, 2016, 12:18:12 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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1-8 tonight. Maybe with the Dallas pick
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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #108 on: April 03, 2016, 12:31:17 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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1-8 tonight. Maybe with the Dallas pick

yes 1-8 on a final four game.  Let's draft him in the 2nd round

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #109 on: April 03, 2016, 01:06:50 AM »

Offline chambers

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How many times have you seen Curry go 1 on 1 ISO with everyone to one side ala Lebron

Didn't happen last night against AB

He is good but not the best in the league. Not top 5 either

Lebron, Paul, George, Westbrook, Durant from the top of my head are better. Curry gets a TOn of picks, double picks, then another pick, screens to go through.  Because he goes through a pnr, his man becomrs off balance and he shakes and bakes that doesn't mean he is the best shot creator. Or getting passes, fake shot, dribble to the left , take the shot. 

He goes through the most screens and picks in the league, or one of the most


The Warriors offense is completely different to the Cavs.
The Warriors don't ISO any particular players because their offense is about finding an open shot.
Curry only goes 'ISO' when he needs to or if their half court offense has broken down or there's a mismatch.

Why don't you make a poll about who the best overall offensive player in the NBA is?

Curry is the best offensive player in the NBA. He also has the most steals. He is the leading scorer but only plays 34 minutes a game- about 4 minutes less than most of the other top 5.

Anyway make a poll about it and see what the responses are.
It's clear you haven't watched enough of Curry.

no one is denying of his offensive capabilities.  I already stated he is a master of  utilizing picks/screens/fakes to get his shot off.  But to say he is an amazing 1 on 1 player or only the best is not true.    We saw proof of that last night.   

most if not all of his points game after some kind of assistance he received through picks or screens

I understand GSW play a system to have it work this way but I remember Curry before this current system. And he was still not a great ISO player. 

going back to the original argument, Hield is no Curry . But he has some Curry like qualities such as being really good at utilizing screens/picks (garbage provided by his temmates tonight and also kudos to villanovas D).   He is one of the top shooters of the draft too.  Quick release long range. Unfortunately tonight he was off .   

He did all he could to get a no name team like Oklahoma to the final four

He gets those shots because they are the highest efficiency for the Warriors. If you were the best ISO player but also the best 3 point shooter in the league, which shots would you take way more of?
The 3 point shot.
They run this offense with picks and screens so he cant either get an open shot or a wide open team mate.

To say Lilliard is a better ISO player than Curry is just not true and means you haven't watched enough of Curry.
We can just agree to disagree and go back to the original point about Hield.
He's not going #1 or #2 in a million years but he could easily go #3 and he's a fantastic player-much more lile Ray Allen than Steph Curry.
Steph Curry has handles like Chris Paul but shoots it even better than Ray.
Hield is more of a screen/pop scorer.
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Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #110 on: April 03, 2016, 01:11:22 AM »

Offline The Rondo Show

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Yikes
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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #111 on: April 03, 2016, 02:02:13 AM »

Offline konkmv

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Brown has much more upside

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #112 on: April 03, 2016, 02:09:01 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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If you don't want to debate with me it's no loss. I wasn't trying to debate you.

I was just stating the truth about Hield.

The truth that Curry is only the best shot creator in the league?

That is not the truth .

It's Lillard, right?

Lillard is a better shot creator than Curry.  Check your glasses

Do you now what shot creation means? Able to excel in 1 on 1/iso basketball

Pure example is, 1 min left, everyone goes on one side of the court and you can either blow by your guy,  drive, stop and fadeaway etc.

If Curry was only the best, with 10 sec left, they could of moved everyone to one side of the court last night and let him beat AB 1 on 1.

A coach like Kerr (or Stevens) would probably never do that with whoever is the greatest shot creator of all-time on his roster.
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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #113 on: April 03, 2016, 02:51:34 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Brown has much more upside

AhhhhH that word upside.

How nice

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #114 on: April 03, 2016, 06:17:41 AM »

Offline TA9

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1-8 tonight. Maybe with the Dallas pick
No way Hield falls all the way to #12 based on one game.
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #115 on: April 03, 2016, 08:13:09 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Wow!! To think Steph Curry's success is predicated upon just running around screens to get his shot off is ridiculous and shutting your eyes off to reality. First off, Steph is a floor general and offensive facilitator as well as a top 5 passer in the game today. Second, he is the best pure shooter in the game. Now add to that he has the single best ability to handle the ball in the NBA and all that makes him one of the most dangerous offensive players there is.

But that's not all because he uses all of the above abilities to create room for himself and get his own shot off. His ability to crossover people is amazing. He constantly shows in late game ISO situations that he can stutter step dribble and step back to create space and get a three pointer off as easily as anyone in the league. And unlike Lebron, George, Durant and others,  curry does this without having the elite height and reach advantages of other great ISO players which allows them to shoot over just about anyone in the league because of their size. curry has to create more space because he doesn't usually have a major size advantage on the player covering him.

But what Curry does have is some of the best body control, lateral speed, and first step quickness that there is in a PG in the NBA and he uses these things to get past defenders and create on the dribble drive, whether that be a lay in, a floater, a pull up jumper or a pass, Curry is exceptional at this.

Curry is an elite ISO player. If you think he just runs off screens for his shot, you simply aren't paying attention or have some stupid axe to grind and are being willfully ignorant.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #116 on: April 03, 2016, 08:49:32 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Bottom line, Hield will not go # 1. More than likely, the top 3 picks will be Simmons, Ingram, and Bender because of the upside they have. After that, it's sort of a crap shoot. I can definitely see Murray moving ahead of Hield on most boards because of his age and his ability to play the 1 and 2.

Hield could very well go # 5, but his size, age, athleticism, ballhandling, defense, and upside are all questionable on the next level. He won't be a star, but he can excel as guy that plays off teammates and spaces the floor with his shooting ability. A more athletic version of Redick is probably his ceiling. That's a nice player to have, but to compare him to Curry is completely laughable.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #117 on: April 03, 2016, 08:51:42 AM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Yeah, there are exceptions to every rule, because drafting is very very difficult, and very hit or miss.

But there are overall trends that are valuable to keep in mind for "tiebreakers," or to influence overall strategy. And, in the long run, these end up being more helpful than not; they can't predict everything of course, and there will of course be exceptions, but we could pick exceptions all day long and get nowhere.

IN GENERAL, things to be concerned about include:
- Unimpressive early seasons with steady improvement to an "impressive" level. Usuallly this is just getting bigger and stronger relative to watered down / young competition, and not indicative of acquiring skills that will help stand out at the much more difficult NBA level. (An exception would be Brandon Roy. Steph Curry is NOT an exception. His freshman/sophomore seasons were GREAT, it just took some time for Davidson and Steph to get NOTICED which is different than being GOOD, which he always was).
- Older than others in your class. Just less room to grow, and less impressive if you are a 22 year old sophomore bashing on an 18 yr old freshman. If you are 18-19 and contributing in college, you are more likely to possess the natural skills to contribute at the NBA level when older
- Lack of athletic markers (steals, etc) in college. NBA selects for the elite, and you usually need to be above average athletically just to stick (people who are "average" athletically in NBA are just average relative to very good athletes.

So I would be cautious about Hield, but not surprised if he was Reddick or maybe even Roy level, and rank him accordingly. But he at glance appears much less impressive than, say, Harden, who shockingly had > 2 spg as a freshman and a great 3p% starting early.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #118 on: April 03, 2016, 09:26:55 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Ford on Hield

Quote
Impact of NCAA Tournament

Ford: He has had some torrid shooting games -- even by his standards -- including 36 points and six 3s against VCU, another game with 27 points and then his amazing 37-point game against Oregon, in which he went 8-for-13 from 3-point range and 13-for-20 from the field overall.

It was the Oregon game, in particular, that really got the "Is Buddy a top-five pick?" topic trending. He looked like Curry in that game. But Saturday's outing was a very different story for Hield. Villanova dominated the game -- and Hield -- all night.

After he hit a 3 to start the game, he was 0-for-7 on 3-pointers the rest of the night and ended with just nine points on 4-for-12 shooting.

I wonder if that poor performance will take some of the wind out of his sails in terms of how the NBA sees him. While the game was atypical for Hield, seeing him stopped cold on a big stage might affect the way some teams see him.


"I love Buddy. But I've loved him as sort of a late lottery pick," said one NBA general manager (who was watching from home). "If you draft him as a specialist, I think he's great value".

"He might turn into more than that given his work ethic. But if you draft him to be Steph Curry, I think you're going to be disappointed. I think the tournament may be overinflating his worth a bit."

"I hope today's game puts things in perspective," the GM continued. "When he's faced with the strength and athleticism and length of the defenders in this league, I think there are going to be some big adjustments for him."

Asked for Hield's ceiling, the same GM told me Ben Gordon. Asked for his floor? Jimmer Fredette.[/
quote]


Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #119 on: April 03, 2016, 10:36:54 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Bottom line, Hield will not go # 1. More than likely, the top 3 picks will be Simmons, Ingram, and Bender because of the upside they have. After that, it's sort of a crap shoot. I can definitely see Murray moving ahead of Hield on most boards because of his age and his ability to play the 1 and 2.

I agree with you about Murray. Three years younger and performing better than Hield at the same age.

Brown and Bender seem like consensus picks to go before Hield as well. Size, athleticism, youth and upside win on draft day almost every time. Dunn, I'm not so sure, given how highly shooting is valued right now and Dunn's age. (Though age in a PG could be an asset given time to maturity).

I could also see teams going for one of the young bigs like Poeltl, Ellenson etc. before Hield.

I view all of this as good news, by the way. I think we could probably package our DAL pick and other mid-level assets to get Hield if Danny loves him.