Author Topic: Could Hield go #1?  (Read 21448 times)

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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2016, 08:58:16 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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If you don't want to debate with me it's no loss. I wasn't trying to debate you.

I was just stating the truth about Hield.

The truth that Curry is only the best shot creator in the league?

That is not the truth .

It's Lillard, right?

Lillard is a better shot creator than Curry.  Check your glasses

Do you now what shot creation means? Able to excel in 1 on 1/iso basketball

Pure example is, 1 min left, everyone goes on one side of the court and you can either blow by your guy,  drive, stop and fadeaway etc.

If Curry was only the best, with 10 sec left, they could of moved everyone to one side of the court last night and let him beat AB 1 on 1.

Triboy, thankfully passing a drug test isn't required to make posts. That would really hurt the entertainment value your posts provide. I eagerly await your next thread overrating (insert random player here) comparing him to (insert superstar here) and filling it with various YouTube highlight videos of the said player to attempt to justify your wild imagination.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2016, 08:58:56 PM »

Offline TheTruth

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Triboy,

Are you seriously demoting Curry to a screen and shoot player?

SMH


Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2016, 08:59:09 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I don't follow college ball closely, but in glancing at player stats over the years it's pretty shocking how dramatically player stats leap over 4 years.   It seems often they make a massive statistical leap the longer they stay in College, but it doesn't always carry over into NBA production.   

Over the past 15 years, NBA teams almost always seem to take away brownie points based on the length of a player's tenure.  Sure, Hield put up great stats as a 4th year Senior, but the kid averaged 7.8 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1.2 steals with 38%/23%/83% shooting as a Freshman.   

Compare that to a guy like Ben Simmons who averaged 19.2 points, 11.8 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 2.0 steals, 56%/33%/67% shooting as a Freshman.   What kind of stats would he put up if he were forced to stay 4 years?    40+ points per game? 

Also, there's studies that show that players basically stop dramatically improving statistically at the age of 23.  They can continue to improve, but all their massive "leaps" usually take place before the age of 23.  See "Nba Players age like milk":  http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

And yeah, before someone points out individual use cases of players (like our very own Crowder) who made leaps after age 23, I just want to clarify the studies are mostly looking at average production of all players.  We generally see massive improvement between 18-23.  Then a bit of progress from 23-27.   Look at the stats of superstars like Durant and LeBron... those guys basically became who they were by the time they were 21.  That doesn't mean you can't see a guy like Steph Curry (who was always a deadly shooter held back in his earlier years by playing next to ball hogs like Monta Ellis) suddenly get a significantly larger offensive role later in his career and make a ridiculous "leap". 
 
SO considering Hield will be 23 next year, traditionally teams will see that as a player who is probably done making significant improvements... he made all of them over the past 4 years.  Ben Simmons, on the other hand, might be better already at the age of 19...  If you project out Ben Simmons over the next 4 years (with significant improvement expected) vs Buddy Hield over the next 4 years (with minimal improvement expected), you can understand why it's pretty freakin unlikely we'll see a 4th year Senior go #1 over a prospect like Simmons who put up arguably better stats as a Freshman than Hield did as a Senior. 

DOes that guarantee Simmons will be better than Hield?  Of course not.  Maybe that Hield kid defies the odds and just keeps getting better until he's 30.  But when teams are evaluating who to draft they (usually) don't pull out a minority of use cases ("Well what about Crowder?  What about Steph Curry?!"), they look at what is statistically most probable.   Most likely, Simmons (if he isn't already better), will leapfrog Hield within the next couple years.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 09:08:50 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #93 on: April 02, 2016, 09:23:01 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Lilliard is not a better shot creator than Curry.

You should retire your tag on Celticsblog for that one.

You guys got the wrong idea as to what shot creating means

Steph Curry and Ray Allen for example are two good players that are/were masters at utilizing picks/screens to get their shot off.  They are not good 1 on 1/iso players

Jordan , Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Lebron James, Durant, Olajuwon, Ewing for example on the other hand, players able to "create" their own shots
What?? Just because Curry is also great at shooting off screens doesn't mean he can't create his own shot as well. He's just also very efficient on the catch and shoot. If you want to see some of his excellent iso moves, go back and watch some of his game winners.
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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #94 on: April 02, 2016, 09:27:31 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Lilliard is not a better shot creator than Curry.

You should retire your tag on Celticsblog for that one.

You guys got the wrong idea as to what shot creating means

Steph Curry and Ray Allen for example are two good players that are/were masters at utilizing picks/screens to get their shot off.  They are not good 1 on 1/iso players

Jordan , Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Lebron James, Durant, Olajuwon, Ewing for example on the other hand, players able to "create" their own shots
What?? Just because Curry is also great at shooting off screens doesn't mean he can't create his own shot as well. He's just also very efficient on the catch and shoot. If you want to see some of his excellent iso moves, go back and watch some of his game winners.

Or just watch him at all.  His handle is terrific and his crossover is vicious.  His release is so quick that he can actually shoot it in the defender's face sometimes.  He's absolutely more than a shooter off of picks. 

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #95 on: April 02, 2016, 09:32:52 PM »

Offline chambers

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Lilliard is not a better shot creator than Curry.

You should retire your tag on Celticsblog for that one.

You guys got the wrong idea as to what shot creating means

Steph Curry and Ray Allen for example are two good players that are/were masters at utilizing picks/screens to get their shot off.  They are not good 1 on 1/iso players

Jordan , Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Lebron James, Durant, Olajuwon, Ewing for example on the other hand, players able to "create" their own shots

You need to watch more Curry. Watch some Youtube highlights. He is probably the best shot creator in the NBA- even better than Chris Paul now. He has arugably the best handles in the NBA now. He gets a lot of screens but he's absolutely a complete offensive player.

Watch this- he schools Chris Paul a couple of times...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ49oFHyZ94
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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2016, 09:33:58 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Lilliard is not a better shot creator than Curry.

You should retire your tag on Celticsblog for that one.

You guys got the wrong idea as to what shot creating means

Steph Curry and Ray Allen for example are two good players that are/were masters at utilizing picks/screens to get their shot off.  They are not good 1 on 1/iso players

Jordan , Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Lebron James, Durant, Olajuwon, Ewing for example on the other hand, players able to "create" their own shots
What?? Just because Curry is also great at shooting off screens doesn't mean he can't create his own shot as well. He's just also very efficient on the catch and shoot. If you want to see some of his excellent iso moves, go back and watch some of his game winners.

Or just watch him at all.  His handle is terrific and his crossover is vicious.  His release is so quick that he can actually shoot it in the defender's face sometimes.  He's absolutely more than a shooter off of picks.
Exactly. It's just his game winners exemplify that, and the poster saying he isn't an iso player should take a look at them.
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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2016, 09:54:01 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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How many times have you seen Curry go 1 on 1 ISO with everyone to one side ala Lebron

Didn't happen last night against AB

He is good but not the best in the league. Not top 5 either

Lebron, Paul, George, Westbrook, Durant from the top of my head are better. Curry gets a TOn of picks, double picks, then another pick, screens to go through.  Because he goes through a pnr, his man becomrs off balance and he shakes and bakes that doesn't mean he is the best shot creator. Or getting passes, fake shot, dribble to the left , take the shot. 

He goes through the most screens and picks in the league, or one of the most
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 09:59:16 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #98 on: April 02, 2016, 10:10:56 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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How many times have you seen Curry go 1 on 1 ISO with everyone to one side ala Lebron

Didn't happen last night against AB

He is good but not the best in the league. Not top 5 either

Lebron, Paul, George, Westbrook, Durant from the top of my head are better. Curry gets a TOn of picks, double picks, then another pick, screens to go through.  Because he goes through a pnr, his man becomrs off balance and he shakes and bakes that doesn't mean he is the best shot creator. Or getting passes, fake shot, dribble to the left , take the shot. 

He goes through the most screens and picks in the league, or one of the most

I think you're confusing the Curry brothers. We are all talking about Steph from the Warriors, I think you're talking about Seth from the Kings.

So NOT this guy...


Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #99 on: April 02, 2016, 10:35:18 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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So by one bad game. Hield stock falls tremendously? I think there's a great chance that he'll be top 5 or 4.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #100 on: April 02, 2016, 10:42:39 PM »

Offline BornReady

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No chance he goes 1

I think Ingram Is much higher in terms of value than hield

Perhaps 2nd considering how team workouts go for Simmons

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #101 on: April 02, 2016, 10:48:13 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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No chance he goes 1

I think Ingram Is much higher in terms of value than hield

Perhaps 2nd considering how team workouts go for Simmons

I agree.  I would pick Ingram ahead of Simmons too

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #102 on: April 02, 2016, 11:11:39 PM »

Offline chambers

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How many times have you seen Curry go 1 on 1 ISO with everyone to one side ala Lebron

Didn't happen last night against AB

He is good but not the best in the league. Not top 5 either

Lebron, Paul, George, Westbrook, Durant from the top of my head are better. Curry gets a TOn of picks, double picks, then another pick, screens to go through.  Because he goes through a pnr, his man becomrs off balance and he shakes and bakes that doesn't mean he is the best shot creator. Or getting passes, fake shot, dribble to the left , take the shot. 

He goes through the most screens and picks in the league, or one of the most


The Warriors offense is completely different to the Cavs.
The Warriors don't ISO any particular players because their offense is about finding an open shot.
Curry only goes 'ISO' when he needs to or if their half court offense has broken down or there's a mismatch.

Why don't you make a poll about who the best overall offensive player in the NBA is?

Curry is the best offensive player in the NBA. He also has the most steals. He is the leading scorer but only plays 34 minutes a game- about 4 minutes less than most of the other top 5.

Anyway make a poll about it and see what the responses are.
It's clear you haven't watched enough of Curry.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

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Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #103 on: April 02, 2016, 11:14:51 PM »

Offline passesofftodj

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I think Dunn is the real deal and hope he is there if the Celtics pick around 5.  I don't see Hield being spectacular in the NBA...likely a very good role player.  He would be a good 10 pick.  He is not close to Curry at a similar age.

Simmons to me is a clear #1.  I don't like Ingram much though we will see how his body develops and I really don't like Brown as the Celtics pick.

Re: Could Hield go #1?
« Reply #104 on: April 02, 2016, 11:21:03 PM »

Offline celticmania

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I think you are underatting Ingram athletically he is above Jabari Parker look he's so long it might make him look worse but the guy has a way better vertical then Jabari and he's still getting stronger. Once Guys get into the league and commit to training they get stronger and realize their potential....I mean look at this.....
https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/2k3wB1vbq3q2hEgKNPFQsQ--/dz03MDU7Y2M9NjA0ODAwO2FwcGlkPXNyY2hkZA--/http://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M82c6cde8096819d8668890d63dcbbb5fo0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

Jabari Parker is way more athletic and explosive. He also carries around 50 more pounds than Ingram.  If Parker was 190 there would be zero doubt he is more athletic which he is