Is retaining Evan Turner a must now this offseason?

[mgent]

Durrant + Bulter + CBS = titles

Turner = above average at best

I want titles.

Yes, if we get Durant AND Butler Turner may not be needed, however it all depends what we give up for Butler.  Say if we get the first or second pick that may be all we need to get Butler.  However if it's say the 5th pick we may need to include Bradley or Smart. Bradley in particular may not be necessary with Butler on board, however then maybe Turner can play some backup 2 minutes along at the 3, with Crowder also playing some backup minutes at the 3 and 4.  Something like:

Thomas 33 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 33 MPG, Turner 20 MPG
Durant 35 MPG, Crowder 25 MPG
Sully 20 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 26 MPG

I'm just spitballing minutes but all this comes out to 48 minutes per position with us playing small ball a lot.  If Bradley is willing to play more of a backup role it could possibly work in place of Turner.

Sign me up.

[TBreezy]

Thomas 33 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 33 MPG, Turner 20 MPG
Durant 35 MPG, Crowder 25 MPG
Sully 20 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 26 MPG

A couple of things trike me.  If we were, by some grace, to sign durant I would expect him and crowder to start side by side, that would provide far more defensive flexibility with crowder taking the more difficult cover,  Also I don't think Sully is brought back in this scenario.  I could see something like below

Thomas 28 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 30 MPG, Turner 18 MPG
Durant 35 MPG,  Turner/Crowder 13 MPG
Crowder 25 MPG, KO 8MPG, Mickey 15 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 20 MPG

Is that three 2016 firsts + AB for  Butler... There are 11 players (in my proposed lineups) with Young/Hunter/Rozier (no significant minutes)?  Can hunter take Turners minutes - not as effectively right now (or next year), but that would allow some extra minutes to spill over into Smart / Thomas and potentially young/rozier getting some minor run. Minutes have a way of working themselves out.

Spend all remaining 2016 picks on stash and draft high upside talent.

 

[manl_lui]

Durrant + Bulter + CBS = titles

Turner = above average at best

I want titles.

Yes, if we get Durant AND Butler Turner may not be needed, however it all depends what we give up for Butler.  Say if we get the first or second pick that may be all we need to get Butler.  However if it's say the 5th pick we may need to include Bradley or Smart. Bradley in particular may not be necessary with Butler on board, however then maybe Turner can play some backup 2 minutes along at the 3, with Crowder also playing some backup minutes at the 3 and 4.  Something like:

Thomas 33 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 33 MPG, Turner 20 MPG
Durant 35 MPG, Crowder 25 MPG
Sully 20 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 26 MPG

I'm just spitballing minutes but all this comes out to 48 minutes per position with us playing small ball a lot.  If Bradley is willing to play more of a backup role it could possibly work in place of Turner.

Sign me up.

+2 on that but

why is Horford only getting 28 minutes? I am starting to like Turner but, that's too many ball dominant players and handlers on one team. If that is the case, I'd rather let Turner walk and give those 20 or majority of his 20 minutes to Smart.

but I would LOVE this lineup

[JBcat]

Durrant + Bulter + CBS = titles

Turner = above average at best

I want titles.

Yes, if we get Durant AND Butler Turner may not be needed, however it all depends what we give up for Butler.  Say if we get the first or second pick that may be all we need to get Butler.  However if it's say the 5th pick we may need to include Bradley or Smart. Bradley in particular may not be necessary with Butler on board, however then maybe Turner can play some backup 2 minutes along at the 3, with Crowder also playing some backup minutes at the 3 and 4.  Something like:

Thomas 33 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 33 MPG, Turner 20 MPG
Durant 35 MPG, Crowder 25 MPG
Sully 20 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 26 MPG

I'm just spitballing minutes but all this comes out to 48 minutes per position with us playing small ball a lot.  If Bradley is willing to play more of a backup role it could possibly work in place of Turner.

Sign me up.

+2 on that but

why is Horford only getting 28 minutes? I am starting to like Turner but, that's too many ball dominant players and handlers on one team. If that is the case, I'd rather let Turner walk and give those 20 or majority of his 20 minutes to Smart.

but I would LOVE this lineup

I was just thinking Horford is a little older if you want to try and conserve him a bit for the playoffs, but you could just as easily take 5 minutes from somewhere maybe from KO/Sully, and give them to Horford.

Of course over an 82 game season there will be injuries, so there would be opportunities for some players to play more minutes.

[spikelovetheCelts]

If we use Smart to a big. I say we keep him. His skill set and coach are a match. If Smarts stays I think Turner holds back Smart ball handling growth. Danny was at Turner's Jersey retiring. I think DA likes him as well. Hopefully he will be our 4th bargain contract.

[mmmmm]

Thomas 33 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 33 MPG, Turner 20 MPG
Durant 35 MPG, Crowder 25 MPG
Sully 20 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 26 MPG

The problem with this (admittedly lovely lineup) is money.

In the above scenario, you may be able to get Butler by sending out matching salary, say, Avery & JJ's contract and other filler.   So that maybe doesn't raise your salary, but it doesn't help you cut any, either.

Durant & Horford are going to cost on the order of 50M.    We can clear up that kind of room, but not if we try to keep Evan at anything more than pennies.   And we'll have to let go of or trade away anything that isn't tied down.  Amir, Zeller -- both gone.  We'll have traded away one or two of our first round picks, so those cap holds would be gone.

Let's assume you unload that third pick and you stash any remaining 2nd round picks.   So with Butler, Isaiah, Jae, Marcus, Kelly, Terry, Young, Mickey & Hunter you are at around 40M.   So now you add in Horford and Durant and you are up around 90M already, leaving just around 2M of cap space.

Sully, assuming his cap hold doesn't get in the way of signing those guys, can be re-signed later, even if we go back over the cap, because we will have Bird Rights.  We won't have Bird-Rights on Evan.

To re-sign Evan for anything over 4.4M (early bird exception), we'll have to use cap space or the Mid-Level Exception (5.6M).  And we wouldn't be in a position to know we would be able to do either until _after_ Durant & Horford finalized their decisions.  If David Falk gets an offer for Evan at anything over 6M, he can't wait around for Danny to clear up his business.  He'll want to get his client signed to a job.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Thomas 33 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 33 MPG, Turner 20 MPG
Durant 35 MPG, Crowder 25 MPG
Sully 20 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 26 MPG

The problem with this (admittedly lovely lineup) is money.

In the above scenario, you may be able to get Butler by sending out matching salary, say, Avery & JJ's contract and other filler.   So that maybe doesn't raise your salary, but it doesn't help you cut any, either.

Durant & Horford are going to cost on the order of 50M.    We can clear up that kind of room, but not if we try to keep Evan at anything more than pennies.   And we'll have to let go of or trade away anything that isn't tied down.  Amir, Zeller -- both gone.  We'll have traded away one or two of our first round picks, so those cap holds would be gone.

Let's assume you unload that third pick and you stash any remaining 2nd round picks.   So with Butler, Isaiah, Jae, Marcus, Kelly, Terry, Young, Mickey & Hunter you are at around 40M.   So now you add in Horford and Durant and you are up around 90M already, leaving just around 2M of cap space.

Sully, assuming his cap hold doesn't get in the way of signing those guys, can be re-signed later, even if we go back over the cap, because we will have Bird Rights.  We won't have Bird-Rights on Evan.

To re-sign Evan for anything over 4.4M (early bird exception), we'll have to use cap space or the Mid-Level Exception (5.6M).  And we wouldn't be in a position to know we would be able to do either until _after_ Durant & Horford finalized their decisions.  If David Falk gets an offer for Evan at anything over 6M, he can't wait around for Danny to clear up his business.  He'll want to get his client signed to a job.

This will not happen Durant and Butler are not coming to the Celtics. A Fantasy that will not happen. Durant would pick 5 teams before he sniffed our way. Butler wants to be the next great BULL.  Horford maybe if the Hawks can get someone to replace him or they are cheap. We will have to give him a 4 year max to get him to even talk to us with the money out there this summer.
 If we keep Turner it is beacuse we don't think Smart can handle the rock or he told to let Smart handle it when they play together.  If we strike out on trades and FA. Turner will be back Danny Loves him. He knows are system and the coach wants him.

[Ilikesports17]

Thomas 33 MPG, Smart, 20 MPG,
Butler 33 MPG, Turner 20 MPG
Durant 35 MPG, Crowder 25 MPG
Sully 20 MPG
Horford 28 MPG, KO 26 MPG

The problem with this (admittedly lovely lineup) is money.

In the above scenario, you may be able to get Butler by sending out matching salary, say, Avery & JJ's contract and other filler.   So that maybe doesn't raise your salary, but it doesn't help you cut any, either.

Durant & Horford are going to cost on the order of 50M.    We can clear up that kind of room, but not if we try to keep Evan at anything more than pennies.   And we'll have to let go of or trade away anything that isn't tied down.  Amir, Zeller -- both gone.  We'll have traded away one or two of our first round picks, so those cap holds would be gone.

Let's assume you unload that third pick and you stash any remaining 2nd round picks.   So with Butler, Isaiah, Jae, Marcus, Kelly, Terry, Young, Mickey & Hunter you are at around 40M.   So now you add in Horford and Durant and you are up around 90M already, leaving just around 2M of cap space.

Sully, assuming his cap hold doesn't get in the way of signing those guys, can be re-signed later, even if we go back over the cap, because we will have Bird Rights.  We won't have Bird-Rights on Evan.

To re-sign Evan for anything over 4.4M (early bird exception), we'll have to use cap space or the Mid-Level Exception (5.6M).  And we wouldn't be in a position to know we would be able to do either until _after_ Durant & Horford finalized their decisions.  If David Falk gets an offer for Evan at anything over 6M, he can't wait around for Danny to clear up his business.  He'll want to get his client signed to a job.

This will not happen Durant and Butler are not coming to the Celtics. A Fantasy that will not happen. Durant would pick 5 teams before he sniffed our way. Butler wants to be the next great BULL.  Horford maybe if the Hawks can get someone to replace him or they are cheap. We will have to give him a 4 year max to get him to even talk to us with the money out there this summer.
 If we keep Turner it is beacuse we don't think Smart can handle the rock or he told to let Smart handle it when they play together.  If we strike out on trades and FA. Turner will be back Danny Loves him. He knows are system and the coach wants him.

What 5 teams?

OKC-GSW-Toronto? Washington? LA? NYK? Brooklyn?

I think we are in the 3-5 range on KDs list.

I honestly think if we get to the ECF we vault to 3rd.

Then it comes down to priorities.

If he doesnt wanna leave this discussion is useless. If hes all a bout championships it GS and if he leaves OKC due to front office, coaching, chemistry, and overall environment stuff then I think we become the favorite.

I give us ~3% chance.

[Ilikesports17]

WAIT! THIS THREAD WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT EVAN TURNER!!! WHAT HAPPENED!!!

[NHHillbilly]

What a difference a season makes, although that can be said about the majority of our team this year.
Evan has taken over the role IT filled last year off the bench. Energy boost, great passer, taking it strong to the basket. It's been apparent that he's been a critical part of our success as of late. At the start of the season I'd say you were crazy if you said this but ET is turning into a must resign this off season.
A lot of the focus has been if we should retain Sully throughout the year but I think it's time to talk Turner.
I think he's a must, he gels perfectly with this team and is a clear leader off the bench.
The question is his worth. I'd personally put it at 6-7 mil per year over 4 years.. Interested to hear others point of view on this matter. Is that too much? Too little with the cap going up? Do fans want him back?
He's converted this fan, let's keep ET in green!

Turner had a great steal near the end of the first half of the win over Memphis.  He is buying into it being fun to play defense.  Not just a good handle, he has good hands overall.  Celtics should keep him.

[Celtic_Pride777]

Danny....please pay the man!

[alldaboston]

I think ET has been huge for this team. He's accepted his role now, and has single handedly saved us in quite a few games these 2 years.

That being said...

He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He's not good as a floor spacer or catch and shoot guy. And he seems to have an aversion to deferring to Smart in games. Many times, Marcus is wide open but ET decides to look the other way or to score by himself. Evan is a solid guy off the bench, but I think we need to make something else clear here:

Is Marcus Smart the point guard of the future for the Celtics?

If he is, then we need to give him as much development time on the ball as we can. That means moving on from ET. We might also have to contemplate moving Isaiah either back to the bench or to another team.

If he's not, then I think it's useless to keep him here and stunt his development. He's an elite defender and a great team guy, but at some point you have to wonder: could we get something more important to us if we package him in a deal for, say, a Jimmy Butler. Or a DeMarcus Cousins. Or someone like that.

If Danny trusts Isaiah enough, he could seriously decide to move from Smart while he still has value, and keep Isaiah and Evan. Because the longer Smart comes off the bench and continues struggling to score, the lower his value will be.