Author Topic: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.  (Read 9505 times)

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Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« on: March 03, 2016, 08:42:41 PM »

Offline oldtype

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James Young

We all hoped that Young would begin to show signs of life this year, but not only has he not gotten any better, he's arguably contributing even less than he was in 2014-15. (Although much of that is attributable to us being better.)  What's disturbing about Young isn't necessarily that he's not playing, but that he has been given multiple chances to find his place in the rotation and failed all of them. Given that wing is our thinnest position by far (Jae Crowder is arguably the only "pure" wing we have. Our backup SF is Marcus Smart,) it is particularly [dang]ing that Young cannot even get emergency minutes.

I totally get that he's still a kid (trying very hard not to use the word "young" here) and that there's every chance that he just gets it one day and turns into a reasonable rotation player. But keeping Young on the roster starts carrying a real opportunity cost this summer: because we have so many picks in this draft, keeping Young or dumping him could be the difference between having next year's version of Jordan Mickey on our roster or being forced to stash him in Europe. Does the James Young of 2016 actually have a better chance of turning into a rotation player than a well-scouted second round pick? Or even an undrafted ten-day contract player?

At this point I think it's fair to start suspecting that the answer is no, and that we should start looking for a Fab Melo-style dump opportunity for him. (Who knows, Danny being Danny, maybe he somehow gets back a useful asset.)

RJ Hunter

RJ Hunter is depressing for similar reasons as Young: he's been given ample chances to break into the rotation but has failed. I think it's fair to start suspecting that he isn't actually a very good shooter, given that he is shooting sub-30% in both the NBA and the D-League. Shooting specialists who can't actually shoot are generally not that useful.

The one thing about RJ that gives me a bit of hope is that he has very consistent form and seems to shoot just as well from super-long 3s as he does from right outside the line. This may be an indicator that he has sound fundamentals and is just out of rhythm due to lack of playing time. It might also just be because his shooting in general is so bad that it just doesn't matter how far out he's taking shots from.

Clearly he deserves a bit more time, but the guy is 22, and you don't draft 22 year old player with the expectation that they will be long term projects. We all flagged him to be the one "immediate impact" player out of all of our rookies and so far he has to be considered a massive disappointment.

Terry Rozier

I hated this pick when it was made and since then I've only grown to hate it more. Picking James Young is at least defensible in the sense that Ainge swung for a fences and missed. That's fine: you'll never get Giannis if you don't suffer through a few Fab Melos and James Youngs. Rozier was a projected second-rounder that nobody thought had a particularly high ceiling that we took a reach on based on... God knows what.

What's worse is that he plays a position where we already had massive redundancy, and this is particularly glaring when you consider that there were multiple serviceable players on the board who addressed our biggest need (wing depth.) RHJ is the obvious miss, but i find it hard to believe that Sam Dekker or Justin Anderson wouldn't be taking at least some of the "Jerebko at SF" or "Smart at SF" minutes if we had got them.

To be fair, the fact that he plays the same position as our best player, best prospect, and best sixth man means that he hasn't gotten as much chance to prove himself as Young or Hunter have. I don't think I've ever actually seen him playing non-garbage minutes. But it's concerning to me that he can't even get some Phil Pressey minutes when we consider that even Phil Pressey could get Phil Pressey minutes. Hell, we waived Phil Pressey because this guy was on the roster - in that sense, there's been an actual downgrade. We no longer have a quick-footed third PG who can come on and push the pace for 3~5 minutes when the opposition is tired.

Overall: argh

At the end of the day I'm not going to complain about our bad draft luck because every other aspect of the rebuild has gone insanely well. On balance, I'll take getting Isaiah Thomas for nothing and Jae Crowder suddenly morphing into a borderline all-star in exchange for three whiffed first-round picks.

Nevertheless, it's frustrating that while teams in similar situations are hitting mid-first rounders out of the park (Utah with Gobert and Hood, for example) we've gotten the sum total of nothing out of two picks in the teens. You don't usually get superstars with these, but it's definitely a below-average return if your #16~17 pick looks like he won't ever play in the NBA. Signs are pointing to this happening to us. Twice.

I've never subscribed to the "Ainge is a bad drafter" narrative, but if the next year or two confirms my fears and Young, Hunter, and Rozier all turn out to be complete zeros, it's going to be time to discuss whether Ainge is actually a bad drafter. Mid-first round picks are real NBA assets which we gave away real NBA things like Jeff Green to acquire. We're starting of the rebuild on the wrong foot if we're flipping them en masse into nothing.


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Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 08:56:56 PM »

Offline loco_91

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It is frustrating, and I also disliked the Rozier pick (in addition to the Young pick). But I don't think either pick was indefensible; Rozier did have three major strengths, athleticism, on-ball defense and work ethic. The reality is that most non-lotto picks do not turn into starting-caliber players, so it's not worth getting depressed about these misses. Plus, it looks like Mickey could be a 2nd-round steal, which would go a long way toward making up for the other guys. And most importantly, Smart has been great, and it's a very good thing that Ainge didn't take Julius Randle, who is in danger of finishing his sophomore year with not a single winshare to his name.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 09:03:01 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 No Worries man, and I'm so hard on the guy its ridiculous. Young over Hood pains me but that's it.
 Rozier will be good. Book it. Young and Hunter who cares. Mickey will be a player.

 Good news is he's got a lot of cracks at it again. This is what the first real draft we get the future goodies in.

 We tanked for Smart. Now we get Brown Or Jakob or Murray while we are the third best team in the East. Great Times.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 09:21:19 PM »

Offline tomrod

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Rozier has a good chance at being really good for the position he was drafted.

I have a problem with Young and RJ though, they seem like lazy picks, where not enough scouting went into it. Like Fab Melo, Jajuan Johnson, etc. Who knows they still might make it but its not looking good.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 09:22:34 PM »

Offline chambers

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I hated the Young pick. Couldn't see what 'potential' there was there other than a 3+D role player.

I love the Rozier pick and I think he's going to be a stud. His control with the ball in the pick and roll could honestly make him a starting caliber or better PG in the NBA.

I really think he'll be like a point guard version of Dywane Wade- he just hasn't had any time on this roster. Hopefully if we trade for a bigger piece, he'll get some time soon.
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Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 09:31:25 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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The Rozier pick reminds me JR Giddens. Ainge thought he was smarter than everyone else and picked someone earlier than anyone else thought they deserved to be picked.

To give Ainge credit, that is the same thing he did with Rondo. It clearly worked fine in the Rondo case.

As of now, these guys are just taking up roster spots and we need roster spots with all the upcoming draft picks.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 09:43:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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What's disturbing about Young isn't necessarily that he's not playing, but that he has been given multiple chances to find his place in the rotation and failed all of them. Given that wing is our thinnest position by far (Jae Crowder is arguably the only "pure" wing we have. Our backup SF is Marcus Smart,) it is particularly [dang]ing that Young cannot even get emergency minutes.

To be fair, four of our best five players, arguably, are all best suited to play at the 1 or 2.  So it's not surprising that Stevens has found ways to give more time to Smart and Turner by allotting them virtually all of the wing minutes that Bradley and Crowder don't get.
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Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 09:54:22 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I was dumbfounded at the Rozier pick, but I'm willing to give him more time. I'm also willing to give Hunter more time.

Young, on the other hand, is really starting to make me wonder if he'll ever amount to anything as an NBA player.
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Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 09:54:45 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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The Rozier pick reminds me JR Giddens. Ainge thought he was smarter than everyone else and picked someone earlier than anyone else thought they deserved to be picked.

To give Ainge credit, that is the same thing he did with Rondo. It clearly worked fine in the Rondo case.

As of now, these guys are just taking up roster spots and we need roster spots with all the upcoming draft picks.

The bulls reportedly were gonna take rozier at 22, and since he couldnt trade down he drafted rozier.

Those who are criticizing the pick this early should remember that at the same point in bradley's career lots of people were playing fortunetellers as well and labeling bradley a bust. Hunter got time earlier in the season because of injuries to both smart and bradley. Mickey got opportunities only when olynyk got injured. We are a deep team fighting for seeding, its no wonder why we dont give much minutes to all these rookies.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 10:08:04 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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The Rozier pick reminds me JR Giddens. Ainge thought he was smarter than everyone else and picked someone earlier than anyone else thought they deserved to be picked.

To give Ainge credit, that is the same thing he did with Rondo. It clearly worked fine in the Rondo case.

As of now, these guys are just taking up roster spots and we need roster spots with all the upcoming draft picks.

The bulls reportedly were gonna take rozier at 22, and since he couldnt trade down he drafted rozier.

Those who are criticizing the pick this early should remember that at the same point in bradley's career lots of people were playing fortunetellers as well and labeling bradley a bust. Hunter got time earlier in the season because of injuries to both smart and bradley. Mickey got opportunities only when olynyk got injured. We are a deep team fighting for seeding, its no wonder why we dont give much minutes to all these rookies.

Houston was going to take him at 18.

I wasn't in love with the pick when it happened but he does have big upside.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 10:22:56 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't get being upset over Rozier but not being upset over Mickey. Both players have excelled at the D League level, both had good Summer Leagues, and both have shown very little in the little time they have been given and the head coach doesn't show confidence in using either player. I gotta think. I have to be excited about equally for both players given what they have shown.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 10:26:02 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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I have watched TRo since his high school days. Watched all UofL games too. Still believe in him.

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 10:33:23 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Nevertheless, it's frustrating that while teams in similar situations are hitting mid-first rounders out of the park (Utah with Gobert and Hood, for example) we've gotten the sum total of nothing out of two picks in the teens. You don't usually get superstars with these, but it's definitely a below-average return if your #16~17 pick looks like he won't ever play in the NBA. Signs are pointing to this happening to us. Twice.

Maybe you will feel better by remembering that Gobert only played 45 games and 434 minutes with lackluster numbers as a rookie.

James Young had the skill set that made me think he was going to be a likely bust the moment he was drafted.  I'm more patient about Hunter, but I am disappointed with his D-League 3-point shooting percentage in a small sample size.  Rozier probably won't be as good as Jeff Teague, but I doubt he'll be as bad as Marquis Teague.  Being better than Marquis Teague isn't enough to make you a solid contributor to a contender, though.
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Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 10:55:32 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I don't get being upset over Rozier but not being upset over Mickey. Both players have excelled at the D League level, both had good Summer Leagues, and both have shown very little in the little time they have been given and the head coach doesn't show confidence in using either player. I gotta think. I have to be excited about equally for both players given what they have shown.

I think there's generally less expectation placed on second-round picks than 1st round picks, especially those in the teens.  I agree with those reduced expectations.

That said, I think our backcourt and wings are the strength of our team, so I'm not surprised the rookies aren't good enough to get playing time.  I don't like James Young tho.  Never have.
 

Re: Where I get to be depressed about Young, Hunter, and Rozier.
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2016, 11:00:51 PM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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Watching Rozier last night I was quite impressed. He's come a long way from where he started this past summer. His shot wasn't falling and he didn't pass enough. (Probably trying to make an impression by shooting more?) But, when he has the ball and he's dribbling he shifts his body really well. He has this hesitation half step that most veteran guards would love to emulate.  He got to where he wanted with ease most of the time. I just wish he would have passed the ball more. 

If he can get his shot fall..he could prove to be a real asset. He also needs to bulk up a bit to be able to fight through those picks.