Author Topic: Bill Simmons suspects the Celtics don't like this bad draft. Okafor was target.  (Read 20073 times)

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Offline Dino Pitino

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we agree it's nonsense to suggest that the target definitely wasn't Okafor and definitely Butler based on RealGM posters

Uh, I agree that would be nonsense, too. No one is saying "definitely" here except LarBrd33.
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Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Okafor is probably at the top end of talent we were able to attract in trade proposals for the BKN pick. It was too much of an unknown for teams to consider trading a "star" for.

And even if we pretend that it wasn't, it'd still be unlikely that we could pry away a star. There is absolutely no way Chicago, for example, is looking to move Butler. None. If they wanted to rebuild that desperately, they'd have just had a fire sale. They didn't. And if they did have a fire sale... they'd still keep Butler. Why? Because it would be very, very stupid not to.
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Offline chambers

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at this point Id say its basically fact that Okafor was the target.
Regardless of who was first to report it, essentially every publication has reported it at this point, nobody from the Celtics has disputed it and nobody has reported an alternative.  It was Okafor. 

The only reason some people don't believe it is because it's more fun to believe in some alternative conspiracy theory.   I think that's a giant waste of time.  Instead of sitting here pretending like it was Jimmy Butler, why can't we just focus on the reality of the offer and what that means in relation to our future?   Will we still be able to make a compelling offer for a Philly big this summer?  Should we be concerned about the quality of this draft?  Would Okafor have flourished here?  There's plenty to explore with this story beyond the "maybe Ainge was actually referring to LeBron and just paid Bulpett to report a smokescreen" tinhattery.
Why would somebody from the Celtics dispute it?  Why would they bother?  Why would they care who people think the target was?  Usually they only dispute reports of one of their current players being shopped, to avoid hurting the player's feelings and to keep that player's reputation in tact.
Valid point.  No point in Boston disputing it.  It would be Philly denying the rumors.  That hasn't happened either though, because everyone (including Okafor) knows at least one of those bigs is a sitting duck and it's been known Boston has had interest in Okafor or Noel since pre-draft.  It shouldn't have surprised anyone that we offered the Brooklyn 1st for one of them.
It also suits Phillys purposes too. They know they need to trade a big. Everyone knows Okafor is at least close to available. All of a sudden Boston is in the game, they have a ton of assets and an aggressive GM. If another team wants okafor they have to compete with Boston and their war chest of picks and players.

This rumor is most beneficial to Philly.

I disagree.
This rumor is beneficial to both sides.
Ainge has set the market for the Brooklyn pick which is currently projected at #4.
Okafur was a highly coveted player last year, and although he hasn't had a perfect year off the court, he's still seen as an elite prospect and a player that could end up better than any of this years top 3.

Considering they gave up the #3 pick for him. As the main piece for a pick with a current pick #4 value (could be better, could be worse), I think they've maintained value in Okafur, and Ainge has     given the Brooklyn pick more of a physical value.

When people think of the Brooklyn pick, GM's and staff may visualize it as a way to get an incredible prospect like Okafur.

It's like the difference between having physical $100 bills falling out of your hands at the strip club, vs looking at a bunch of zeros on a computer screen in your bank account.

Great sales tactic and wouldn't surprise me if it's completely made up.
It could be true and I personally hope it's true.
I just don't put too much faith into one report being the bible.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline Ilikesports17

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at this point Id say its basically fact that Okafor was the target.
Regardless of who was first to report it, essentially every publication has reported it at this point, nobody from the Celtics has disputed it and nobody has reported an alternative.  It was Okafor. 

The only reason some people don't believe it is because it's more fun to believe in some alternative conspiracy theory.   I think that's a giant waste of time.  Instead of sitting here pretending like it was Jimmy Butler, why can't we just focus on the reality of the offer and what that means in relation to our future?   Will we still be able to make a compelling offer for a Philly big this summer?  Should we be concerned about the quality of this draft?  Would Okafor have flourished here?  There's plenty to explore with this story beyond the "maybe Ainge was actually referring to LeBron and just paid Bulpett to report a smokescreen" tinhattery.
Why would somebody from the Celtics dispute it?  Why would they bother?  Why would they care who people think the target was?  Usually they only dispute reports of one of their current players being shopped, to avoid hurting the player's feelings and to keep that player's reputation in tact.
Valid point.  No point in Boston disputing it.  It would be Philly denying the rumors.  That hasn't happened either though, because everyone (including Okafor) knows at least one of those bigs is a sitting duck and it's been known Boston has had interest in Okafor or Noel since pre-draft.  It shouldn't have surprised anyone that we offered the Brooklyn 1st for one of them.
It also suits Phillys purposes too. They know they need to trade a big. Everyone knows Okafor is at least close to available. All of a sudden Boston is in the game, they have a ton of assets and an aggressive GM. If another team wants okafor they have to compete with Boston and their war chest of picks and players.

This rumor is most beneficial to Philly.

I disagree.
This rumor is beneficial to both sides.
Ainge has set the market for the Brooklyn pick which is currently projected at #4.
Okafur was a highly coveted player last year, and although he hasn't had a perfect year off the court, he's still seen as an elite prospect and a player that could end up better than any of this years top 3.

Considering they gave up the #3 pick for him. As the main piece for a pick with a current pick #4 value (could be better, could be worse), I think they've maintained value in Okafur, and Ainge has     given the Brooklyn pick more of a physical value.

When people think of the Brooklyn pick, GM's and staff may visualize it as a way to get an incredible prospect like Okafur.

It's like the difference between having physical $100 bills falling out of your hands at the strip club, vs looking at a bunch of zeros on a computer screen in your bank account.

Great sales tactic and wouldn't surprise me if it's completely made up.
It could be true and I personally hope it's true.
I just don't put too much faith into one report being the bible.
Good points on the last 2 lines.

Prior to that I have to disagree. ainge made the offer of the Brooklyn pick as a part of a package of other assets and we still couldn't get Jahlil.

Offline celticsclay

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Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

i did the same in this instance. discussing a hypothetical trade is fine, but making a new thread every time somebody vaguely alludes to it and it didn't even happen violates the stated forum rules. This has gotten way over the top.

Offline alldaboston

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Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

i did the same in this instance. discussing a hypothetical trade is fine, but making a new thread every time somebody vaguely alludes to it and it didn't even happen violates the stated forum rules. This has gotten way over the top.
I concur.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Offline BornReady

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I think every GM is like this about the draft
But drafts can only be judged in retrospect

The draft being perceived as bad can have advantages
If people think the players in this draft is a crapshoot
Then other GMs can overlook talent
Also it would be easier for ainge to move up in this draft
or buy another pick (extremely doubt ainge would do this)

Offline colincb

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http://www.theintell.com/sports/sixers/source-sixers-gauging-interest-in-okafor/article_419783af-14e3-508c-b391-736a3f81de08.html

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    As for who's running the basketball show for the Sixers now, the first source said, "From what I heard, teams in the NBA are calling Colangelo" with trade proposals.

    "Hinkie's not calling the shots — it's Colangelo," said the second source. "People in the know know that. When it originally took place, people thought Colangelo was working for Hinkie. They were sadly mistaken. Colangelo doesn't work for anybody."

Offline KG Living Legend

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at this point Id say its basically fact that Okafor was the target.
Regardless of who was first to report it, essentially every publication has reported it at this point, nobody from the Celtics has disputed it and nobody has reported an alternative.  It was Okafor. 

The only reason some people don't believe it is because it's more fun to believe in some alternative conspiracy theory.   I think that's a giant waste of time.  Instead of sitting here pretending like it was Jimmy Butler, why can't we just focus on the reality of the offer and what that means in relation to our future?   Will we still be able to make a compelling offer for a Philly big this summer?  Should we be concerned about the quality of this draft?  Would Okafor have flourished here?  There's plenty to explore with this story beyond the "maybe Ainge was actually referring to LeBron and just paid Bulpett to report a smokescreen" tinhattery.




 Lord Knows I love Okafor. Maybe Smart was the sticking point as in we weren't parting with him, probably tried to unloads some gems to Philly like Hunter, Young.

 With how are roster is constructed, It's tough to argue he wouldn't help this team in the long run especially If were not giving up a core contributor.

  Defensive flaws and all I'll take him.

Offline colincb

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I worry about Jahlil Okafor being the next Eddy Curry.  I hope Danny stays away.

Love me some Nerlens Noel, though.

Eddie Curry averaged 6.7 points, 3.8 rebounds, 0.7 blocks with 50% shooting as a rookie. 

Okafor is averaging like 18 and 8 as a 20 year old rookie on a wildly dysfunctional team that isn't committed to him at all.    Getting him would have been amazing.   We would have given up 5+ 1st rounders to get him around the draft... the idea that we were close to getting him for a Brooklyn 1st is kind of crazy.   I'd still like to know who else we were including in the package, but the idea excites me.  Usually those kind of players make a leap after their rookie season.  Anthony Davis averaged like 13 and 8 as a rookie, for instance.   Okafor's defense is definitely a concern, but he looks like a lock to be a 20/10 player long-term wherever he ends up.

For a team that isn't committed to him he has a high usage rate.

Wouldn't hold my breath on that 10 RPG. His Rebound% is 112th in the NBA and behind Noel, who's not a great rebounder, and way behind Sullinger.

Offline LarBrd33

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Okafor is probably at the top end of talent we were able to attract in trade proposals for the BKN pick. It was too much of an unknown for teams to consider trading a "star" for.

And even if we pretend that it wasn't, it'd still be unlikely that we could pry away a star. There is absolutely no way Chicago, for example, is looking to move Butler. None. If they wanted to rebuild that desperately, they'd have just had a fire sale. They didn't. And if they did have a fire sale... they'd still keep Butler. Why? Because it would be very, very stupid not to.
Yeah I guess it's plausible that we didn't have an option nearly as valuable as Okafor on the table and Danny made up the rumor in some whacky attempt to keep up the trade value of the pick months from now, but even that doesn't make much sense.  I think this one is pretty staight forward... We tried to buy low on Okafor using the draft pick as the centerpiece of a package... Philly gave it thought and smartly decided against it. 

Offline LarBrd33

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You also forgot to mention that he said this is around the time most people start to hate the upcoming draft. They mentioned Simmons and Ingram being potential stars. If Ainge wanted to trade the pick it's soley because there's a chance Brooklyn gets out tanked by Phoenix and Minnesota. I understand the reasoning.
well from Boston's perspective it makes total sense why they tried trading the pick in a package for Okafor.  It's pretty unlikely the picks up being a prospect on Okafor's level.  Danny is an opportunist.  If Philly's wildly dysfunctional situation lead them to sell low on a star big man prospect, ainge was going to make darn sure he was in the running to grab the guy regardless of fit.  Boston isn't in position to be picky when it comes to landing possible franchise talent.

Offline Eddie20

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LarBrd33-

And if you listened to that podcast you also heard the cadence of his voice which was very much comes across as a knowing, "oh yeah, it was most definitely Okafor".   


Do you realize how ridiculous you sound when you say these things? Surprised you didn't talk about his breathing pattern changed, his heart rate was elevated, or that he articulated the name "Okafor" differently than he ever has. At this point, why not?

Offline CroCorvus

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I would probably be ok with BKN 16 pick and a filler for Okafor, aldo looking his stats on a bad Sixers team are great he plays no defense and his plus/minus is probably most negative on that whole team... The thing with him is that he's still young. He's got potentila to be phenomenal player but that is I guess the risk of taking him...who knows, maybe in the right system he would be great...

Offline GC003332

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Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

i did the same in this instance. discussing a hypothetical trade is fine, but making a new thread every time somebody vaguely alludes to it and it didn't even happen violates the stated forum rules. This has gotten way over the top.
Why bother , the moderators clearly have been turning a blind eye to his constant trolling for a very long time, frankly I am embarrassed by their lack of action in this regard.
They probably feel sorry for the guy and let him do it out of sympathy.
Embarrassing for this forum.