Bill Simmons suspects the Celtics don't like this bad draft. Okafor was target.

[flybono]

Like I said, you deal picks for legit players. I would have offered the Nets pick back to Brooklyn for Lopez.

At least you would have gotten a big..

Purgatory!

[Boris Badenov]

I am not taking a stand on the various rumors, but one thing seems odd about this story.

If Ainge is selling the BKN pick for Okafor, to get out of this draft because he doesn't like it...why on earth would PHI be the buyers? They already have a guaranteed top 4 pick and a 50/50 shot at having #4/#5 too.

So they're going to add another pick which is also likely in the 4-6 range? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

I mean, maybe they think they could move said pick for another asset - but why not just do that with Okafor? If we are to believe the story, both about BOS needing to include another asset and about Ainge's views on this draft, then Okafor is worth more than the BKN pick straight up.

Not saying that the story as rumored above isn't true. It's just....odd. Of course Philly has done lots of odd things in the last few years, but I figured that would be coming to an end with Colangelo aboard.

[LarBrd33]

Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

First of all... Yes, I absolutely am equating being skeptical that okafor is the target with an idiotic conspiracy theory.

My evidence:  One of the main reasons someone here suggested that it probably wasn't Okafor was because "3 out of 3 RealGM insiders claimed it wasn't Okafor".   There are no insiders on RealGM's forums.   That's a blatantant idiotic conspiracy theory.  That's the equivalent of my mother sharing me articles from truthseeker blogs about George Bush being a reptile.   RealGM "insiders" have less credibility than the bloggers coming up with that nonsense.   Believing a forum poster by the name of 617Murph1983 who claims Steve Bulpett is Danny's "media guy" and the real target was Jimmy Butler is literally accepting a conspiracy theory over reality. 

[Denis998]

Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

First of all... Yes, I absolutely am equating being skeptical that okafor is the target with an idiotic conspiracy theory.

My evidence:  One of the main reasons someone here suggested that it probably wasn't Okafor was because "3 out of 3 RealGM insiders claimed it wasn't Okafor".   There are no insiders on RealGM's forums.   That's a blatantant idiotic conspiracy theory.  That's the equivalent of my mother sharing me articles from truthseeker blogs about George Bush being a reptile.   RealGM "insiders" have less credibility than the bloggers coming up with that nonsense.   Believing a forum poster by the name of 617Murph1983 who claims Steve Bulpett is Danny's "media guy" and the real target with Jimmy Butler is literally accepting a conspiracy theory over reality.

Could have sworn that Bush is a reptile.

[LarBrd33]

I am not taking a stand on the various rumors, but one thing seems odd about this story.

If Ainge is selling the BKN pick for Okafor, to get out of this draft because he doesn't like it...why on earth would PHI be the buyers? They already have a guaranteed top 4 pick and a 50/50 shot at having #4/#5 too.

So they're going to add another pick which is also likely in the 4-6 range? Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

I mean, maybe they think they could move said pick for another asset - but why not just do that with Okafor? If we are to believe the story, both about BOS needing to include another asset and about Ainge's views on this draft, then Okafor is worth more than the BKN pick straight up.

Not saying that the story as rumored above isn't true. It's just....odd. Of course Philly has done lots of odd things in the last few years, but I figured that would be coming to an end with Colangelo aboard.

Simmons and House talk about that in their podcast.  Adding the Brooklyn pick with their own increases their ping pong ball combos and heightens their chance of adding Ben Simmons.  Right now they would have 250 out of 1001 combos.  Adding the Brooklyn pick (if it stays at 4th) gives them an additional 156 lotto combos.  So they'd own 406 out of 1001 lotto combos.  They'd have huge odds of landing a top 2 pick with all those lotto combos. 

Also, it would be cutting their losses.  There's no way they keep all 3 bigs.  One has to go. 

That said, I don't believe the Brooklyn pick was all that was being offered.  First, we'd have to include contracts (so at the very least we were giving them Rozier and Young or something).  Second, Ainge himself referred to it as a "big package" and not the pick by itself.  Third, it would be pretty foolish for Philly to give up Okafor for an unknown pick... which is why it's not surprising they backed out of the deal.   

What I worry about now is if the draft actually does stink, what does that do to our trade options?   The 2007 draft was pretty crap outside the top 2 picks, but we were still able to include the #5 pick in a package for a 32 year old allstar.   I think we'd struggle to trade a pick outside the top 2 for a 20 year old star prospect, though.  It had value, because of the potential to land in the top 2... when you remove that option, it degrades in value considerably, right?

[TheFlex]

Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

First of all... Yes, I absolutely am equating being skeptical that okafor is the target with an idiotic conspiracy theory.

My evidence:  One of the main reasons someone here suggested that it probably wasn't Okafor was because "3 out of 3 RealGM insiders claimed it wasn't Okafor".   There are no insiders on RealGM's forums.   That's a blatantant idiotic conspiracy theory.  That's the equivalent of my mother sharing me articles from truthseeker blogs about George Bush being a reptile.   RealGM "insiders" have less credibility than the bloggers coming up with that nonsense.   Believing a forum poster by the name of 617Murph1983 who claims Steve Bulpett is Danny's "media guy" and the real target with Jimmy Butler is literally accepting a conspiracy theory over reality.

I think taking the leap to specify Jimmy Butler as the mystery player lacks credibility, but I have no problem believing that Okafor wasn't the real target or that Danny exaggerated how close the teams were. The latter is a "conspiracy theory" (lazy, derogatory term to attack an unpopular theory) because it questions the mainstream media we are supposed to religiously follow, but it doesn't require as much fantasizing as the former Jimmy Butler theory does.

[LarBrd33]

Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

First of all... Yes, I absolutely am equating being skeptical that okafor is the target with an idiotic conspiracy theory.

My evidence:  One of the main reasons someone here suggested that it probably wasn't Okafor was because "3 out of 3 RealGM insiders claimed it wasn't Okafor".   There are no insiders on RealGM's forums.   That's a blatantant idiotic conspiracy theory.  That's the equivalent of my mother sharing me articles from truthseeker blogs about George Bush being a reptile.   RealGM "insiders" have less credibility than the bloggers coming up with that nonsense.   Believing a forum poster by the name of 617Murph1983 who claims Steve Bulpett is Danny's "media guy" and the real target with Jimmy Butler is literally accepting a conspiracy theory over reality.

I think taking the leap to specify Jimmy Butler as the mystery player lacks credibility, but I have no problem believing that Okafor wasn't the real target or that Danny exaggerated how close the teams were. The latter is a "conspiracy theory" (lazy, derogatory term to attack an unpopular theory) because it questions the mainstream media we are supposed to religiously follow, but it doesn't require as much fantasizing as the former Jimmy Butler theory does.

The thing is, there's no valid reason to believe Bulpett made it up.  The only reason anyone does is because it's more exciting to believe the target was someone else.   To suggest that Ainge used Bulpett to create a smokescreen and our real target was someone more desirable than Okafor is fun... but flat-out a conspiracy theory. 

A conspiracy theory is an explanatory or speculative hypothesis suggesting that two or more persons or an organization have conspired to cause or to cover up, through secret planning and deliberate action, an event or situation.

The Ainge/Bulpett Okafor smokescreening of Jimmy Butler as speculated by 3 out of 3 RealGM forum posters claiming to be "insiders" = blatant conspiracy theory.

It's a ridiculous idea.  Many leaps and assumptions need to be made... that Ainge ran his mouth on a radio station and immediately realized, "oh no!... I messed up by running my mouth... now the Bulls are going to be mad at me and not want to trade Jimmy Butler to me this summer!... better use Steve Bulpett to come up with an elaborate smoke screen to draw attention away from Butler... but make sure we inform 3 out of 3 RealGM forum posters with "insider" information so the real info still gets to our devoted fans"...  That's worse writing than the crappy X-Files reboot.

[Dino Pitino]

Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

First of all... Yes, I absolutely am equating being skeptical that okafor is the target with an idiotic conspiracy theory.

My evidence:  One of the main reasons someone here suggested that it probably wasn't Okafor was because "3 out of 3 RealGM insiders claimed it wasn't Okafor".   There are no insiders on RealGM's forums.   That's a blatantant idiotic conspiracy theory.  That's the equivalent of my mother sharing me articles from truthseeker blogs about George Bush being a reptile.   RealGM "insiders" have less credibility than the bloggers coming up with that nonsense.   Believing a forum poster by the name of 617Murph1983 who claims Steve Bulpett is Danny's "media guy" and the real target with Jimmy Butler is literally accepting a conspiracy theory over reality.

Except that that poster "ddb" has league connections via Presti and revealed the KG trade among other transactions. The picture you're painting where the admins of a message board lied about verifying that poster's creds and continue to sanction his lies in order to boost board activity, that is at the very least just as much of a conspiracy theory. Anyway, taking into consideration that supposed insider info as a minor counterweight to a single report about a trade rumor involving NBA general managers who routinely use media smokescreens, is not the equivalent of paranoid delusions about reptilians, and it is deeply offensive for you to say it's the equivalent, and you know it's offensive, because you are trying to be offensive, because you are a troll.

[LarBrd33]

Your attempt to equate being skeptical that Okafor was the target with idiotic conspiracy theorizing is an insult and straight up trolling. I'm reporting you, and I doubt I'm the first, but I find it hard to believe that the admins here knowingly tolerate the trolling of somebody whose avatar celebrates the most famous troll of all time, so I have to try at least once. Then again, maybe they know but they like the clicks your trolling produces, eh? Or would that line of thought be idiotic conspiracy theorizing?

First of all... Yes, I absolutely am equating being skeptical that okafor is the target with an idiotic conspiracy theory.

My evidence:  One of the main reasons someone here suggested that it probably wasn't Okafor was because "3 out of 3 RealGM insiders claimed it wasn't Okafor".   There are no insiders on RealGM's forums.   That's a blatantant idiotic conspiracy theory.  That's the equivalent of my mother sharing me articles from truthseeker blogs about George Bush being a reptile.   RealGM "insiders" have less credibility than the bloggers coming up with that nonsense.   Believing a forum poster by the name of 617Murph1983 who claims Steve Bulpett is Danny's "media guy" and the real target with Jimmy Butler is literally accepting a conspiracy theory over reality.

Except that that poster "ddb" has league connections via Presti and revealed the KG trade among other transactions.

No he doesn't.  And no, he didn't. 

I have personally spoken directly with moderators of that forum about false "insiders" asking for proof, because there's a cult forming around some of those idiots.  None of the mods could provide any such proof... and none seemed interested in even verifying the credibility of any of them.   It's the "Weekly World News" of internet forums.  That entire website is devoted to NBA gossip and rumors... posters like the troll you are referencing drive traffic to that forum... tons of people lurk those forums looking for juicy gossip from these fake "insiders" and anyone who dares call them out gets ridiculed by the mob, because they are afraid their fake "insider" will leave and stop providing them with juicy rumors. 

According to some of them, we tried trading the Brooklyn 1st for Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein's Adopted Shaved Ape Baby.



Sure, it's more exciting to think about the possibilities given Ape Baby's standing reach and wingspan, but the sad reality is... we tried trading for Okafor. 

[Kuberski33]

If it was Okafor....if you're Philly - a very tough media town - and you're offering up Okafor - the #3 pick last year for the 'Brooklyn' pick - which may well be a lower pick.  Try selling that one to your fan base.

There absolutely had to be more involved and if you're Philly at their stage of rebuilding what would entice you to cut bait on a #3 overall pick - especially given the Embid situation? 

Its's not Thomas,  (I'm doubting the C's trade an All Star). Sully doesn't work there, its not Turner.  Bradley offers them little value at this stage of the game.  What's left? 

Smart or Olynyk.  I'm guessing Rozier as well because their PG situation sucks. 

Smart/Olynyk, Brooklyn pick, Rozier and probably a draft pick for Okafor and possibly another draft pick back. 

No way Philly even considers it unless they're getting something very good back.  Danny probably was willing to overpay.  I think for the next big move they make, they may have to. 

[moiso]

at this point Id say its basically fact that Okafor was the target.

Regardless of who was first to report it, essentially every publication has reported it at this point, nobody from the Celtics has disputed it and nobody has reported an alternative.  It was Okafor. 

The only reason some people don't believe it is because it's more fun to believe in some alternative conspiracy theory.   I think that's a giant waste of time.  Instead of sitting here pretending like it was Jimmy Butler, why can't we just focus on the reality of the offer and what that means in relation to our future?   Will we still be able to make a compelling offer for a Philly big this summer?  Should we be concerned about the quality of this draft?  Would Okafor have flourished here?  There's plenty to explore with this story beyond the "maybe Ainge was actually referring to LeBron and just paid Bulpett to report a smokescreen" tinhattery.

Why would somebody from the Celtics dispute it?  Why would they bother?  Why would they care who people think the target was?  Usually they only dispute reports of one of their current players being shopped, to avoid hurting the player's feelings and to keep that player's reputation in tact.

[Kuberski33]

BTW I watched Simmons play last night.  Granted its one game, but he's not going to help much immediately.  Defensively he's weak, and he's too thin to do much initially down low plus his shooting is weak.  He's a project and this team is ready to take the next step now.

[LarBrd33]

at this point Id say its basically fact that Okafor was the target.

Regardless of who was first to report it, essentially every publication has reported it at this point, nobody from the Celtics has disputed it and nobody has reported an alternative.  It was Okafor. 

The only reason some people don't believe it is because it's more fun to believe in some alternative conspiracy theory.   I think that's a giant waste of time.  Instead of sitting here pretending like it was Jimmy Butler, why can't we just focus on the reality of the offer and what that means in relation to our future?   Will we still be able to make a compelling offer for a Philly big this summer?  Should we be concerned about the quality of this draft?  Would Okafor have flourished here?  There's plenty to explore with this story beyond the "maybe Ainge was actually referring to LeBron and just paid Bulpett to report a smokescreen" tinhattery.

Why would somebody from the Celtics dispute it?  Why would they bother?  Why would they care who people think the target was?  Usually they only dispute reports of one of their current players being shopped, to avoid hurting the player's feelings and to keep that player's reputation in tact.

Valid point.  No point in Boston disputing it.  It would be Philly denying the rumors.  That hasn't happened either though, because everyone (including Okafor) knows at least one of those bigs is a sitting duck and it's been known Boston has had interest in Okafor or Noel since pre-draft.  It shouldn't have surprised anyone that we offered the Brooklyn 1st for one of them.

[LarBrd33]

BTW I watched Simmons play last night.  Granted its one game, but he's not going to help much immediately.  Defensively he's weak, and he's too thin to do much initially down low plus his shooting is weak.  He's a project and this team is ready to take the next step now.

In that podcast they wondered if by the end of the tourney (which Simmons likely will miss) Ingram will leapfrog him on the draft board.   Could happen. 

[Kane3387]

Since when was Okafor a "star" though. Ainge said landing a star. I mean I guess he was a YouTube sensation for a minute.

Part of me really just thinks Ainge made it up. I know that's not a popular way of thinking.