Zach Lowe: C's "recoiled" at price for Dwight,may still have interest....

[fairweatherfan]

As in, if we trade for Horward, I can see Olynyk/Amir/Jerebko being moved before Sullinger/Zeller because those former assets should be more attractive to Houston in a trade.

There is ZERO chance Ainge trades Olynyk for Howard. Less than zero.

huh? that's silly . At best KO is a 7th man type on a contender. I would have no problem moving him for Howard .

Straight up everyone makes that trade haha

Wrong. Because you assume that everyone (including the Cs) would want Howard long term. And the vast majority of franchises don't or won't.

It's not fantasy sports. In the real world, teams worry about cost, value, risk, fit, etc. The stronger franchises will avoid Howard like the plague this summer. And that's why the market for him is limited.

the salary cap for next year is 92 mil

currently the c's have 27 mil on the books for next year . They could easily fit Howard and another max under the salary cap .

No other playoff team can offer 2 max contracts .

if we could get him for a relatively cheap offer, i don't see the problem of giving him a close to max contract.

the cap is incidental. the question is whether the Cs care to lock up Howard long term. that's it. and this discussion is assumes they do, which i totally disagree with.

Well, assuming you're right, is there any point whatsoever in trading for Howard, believing he'll opt out this offseason, but having no intention of resigning him?  Why would we even be looking into this if we had no intention of resigning him?  The price can't possibly be low enough to justify ~30 games of Howard.

[kozlodoev]

currently the c's have 27 mil on the books for next year(according to hoopshype) . They could easily fit Howard and another max under the salary cap . Possibly even a 3rd max....

Of course, to get to this number Hoopshype assumes that Jerebko and Amir will get released, Sullinger and Zeller will be renounced, and has no information about Crowder's cap hit past the current year. Oh, and it also assumes we'll make no attempt to bring Turner back. That's not how it works.

Even if we assume that theoretically your payroll could be $34 million (after you account for Crowder correctly). This would mean you have 9 players under contract, 3 of which shouldn't be sniffing any sort of serious court time.

[Donoghus]

currently the c's have 27 mil on the books for next year(according to hoopshype) . They could easily fit Howard and another max under the salary cap . Possibly even a 3rd max....

Of course, to get to this number Hoopshype assumes that Jerebko and Amir will get released, Sullinger and Zeller will be renounced, and has no information about Crowder's cap hit past the current year. That's not how it works.

Even if we assume that theoretically your payroll could be $34 million (after you account for Crowder correctly). This would mean you have 9 players under contract, 3 of which shouldn't be sniffing any sort of serious court time.

Saw a tweet from Karalis (Red's Army) this morning saying they could potentially have themselves around $55 million in cap room next year via renouncing everyone and didn't use any first rounders.

[celts10]

Eh, I'd rather have Horford than Dwight.

[crimson_stallion]

As in, if we trade for Horward, I can see Olynyk/Amir/Jerebko being moved before Sullinger/Zeller because those former assets should be more attractive to Houston in a trade.

There is ZERO chance Ainge trades Olynyk for Howard. Less than zero.

huh? that's silly . At best KO is a 7th man type on a contender. I would have no problem moving him for Howard .

I don't know what to tell you. You're just way off. You don't understand how strongly the Cs disagree with you.

Source?

Not disclosable (not that I need one to address this one). Proof is in the pudding. Short of a superstar (of which Howard is certainly not one), Ainge is not moving Olynyk. Internally, he's in the discussion for the most valued player as an asset on the roster.

I can understand that. 

The general view is that bigs take longer to develop than most players, yet Olynyk is only 24 in his third year, and is already one of the teams biggest impact players on both ends of the court (based on advanced stats and eye test) and probably one of the top 5 shooters among 7 footers.

Hes an incredibly skilled player, and his ability to score inside out, pass, and defend inside out, makes him extremely versatile.  That versatility means you can start just about any big man alongside him - Amir, Sully, Horfoed, Howard, Love, Monroe, Deandre...take your pick, pretty much. 

Flexibility like that is important.  Having guys who can play in any rotation with any other player is huge.

To be honest i think Olynyk's upside is higher than Sully's and at least on par with Smart's.  I know everybody will disagree re Smart, but Olynyk was a more productive player his second year ( statistics and with advanced stats) than Smart has been this year...and unlike Smart ( shooting, ball handling, court vision, etc) Olynyk doesn't have significant holes in his game that he needs to overcome

[PhoSita]

I think Olynyk's value has more to do with how difficult it is to acquire a player with his particular skillset, not so much his actual talent level or potential for improvement in the future.

A seven footer who is a skilled passer and shooter, with the ability to attack closeouts and play smart positional defense, causes lots of matchup problems for opponents.  He unlocks a lot of possibilities for the C's offensively when he's out there. 

In a league where less-versatile and dangerous guys like Channing Frye, Ersan Ilysaova, Ryan Anderson, and Matt Bonner keep getting paid and finding their way on playoff rosters, you want to hold onto Kelly Olynyk.

[rondohondo]

currently the c's have 27 mil on the books for next year(according to hoopshype) . They could easily fit Howard and another max under the salary cap . Possibly even a 3rd max....

Of course, to get to this number Hoopshype assumes that Jerebko and Amir will get released, Sullinger and Zeller will be renounced, and has no information about Crowder's cap hit past the current year. That's not how it works.

Even if we assume that theoretically your payroll could be $34 million (after you account for Crowder correctly). This would mean you have 9 players under contract, 3 of which shouldn't be sniffing any sort of serious court time.

Saw a tweet from Karalis (Red's Army) this morning saying they could potentially have themselves around $55 million in cap room next year via renouncing everyone and didn't use any first rounders.

Plus you can always move AB if you need to clear more cap space , plus the young players . Almost every team will have cap space so we could move them without taking money back

If we trade for Howard , we could then possibly sign Durant and Horford

IT           
Smart
Durant
Horford
Howard

 

[crimson_stallion]

Eh, I'd rather have Horford than Dwight.

Id rather have Dwight, and to me it's not even remotely close.

Far, far superior talent which (IMHO) more than makes up for any off court issues.

Also Dwight's usage is way too low in Houston for a player as good as he is, thanks to the inefficient ball hog that is James Harden.  Dwight only attend something like 9 FG a night and is still putting up very solid offensive numbers. 

Bring Dwight here and give him a bigger role with more touches, and chances are his numbers jump right back up around the 18 PPG / 12 RPG mark, and then he'll be looking like a superstar again.

Horford's not playing behind a high volume offensive superstar and he's not a go-to guy, so his role/touches here wouldn't be that different to what they are in Atlanta. You wouldn't exoect his production would change all that much.  In fact with Thomas having such a big part of the offense, his production might even drop as a Celtic.

[tomrod]

Howard is no longer a number 1 guy on a championship team. So you cant pay him like he is. If he wants that money he's not getting it from Ainge.

Plus, he is 30 and declining, Ainge wants a bigger championship window this time. If he could get him for 16 a year he would consider it.

The plan is to get him for cheap. We have disposable assets, like the picks that the team doesnt want to use all of them, Sullinger that wants a contract the Celtics wont pay, same with Amir, Jerebko and Zeller fo different reasons. Maybe one of them is on the long term plan, but everyone is replaceable. So he could get him for assets than are not on the team's plan, and make a run in the playoffs and try to convince Howard that he can be great here for a lesser price.

[makaveli]

Howard, a max guy, what that makes durrant, 100 mill per year?
howard will be the end of any franchise dumb enough to throw him that money khm...knicks, nets

[ssspence]

As in, if we trade for Horward, I can see Olynyk/Amir/Jerebko being moved before Sullinger/Zeller because those former assets should be more attractive to Houston in a trade.

There is ZERO chance Ainge trades Olynyk for Howard. Less than zero.

huh? that's silly . At best KO is a 7th man type on a contender. I would have no problem moving him for Howard .

Straight up everyone makes that trade haha

Wrong. Because you assume that everyone (including the Cs) would want Howard long term. And the vast majority of franchises don't or won't.

It's not fantasy sports. In the real world, teams worry about cost, value, risk, fit, etc. The stronger franchises will avoid Howard like the plague this summer. And that's why the market for him is limited.

the salary cap for next year is 92 mil

currently the c's have 27 mil on the books for next year . They could easily fit Howard and another max under the salary cap .

No other playoff team can offer 2 max contracts .

if we could get him for a relatively cheap offer, i don't see the problem of giving him a close to max contract.

the cap is incidental. the question is whether the Cs care to lock up Howard long term. that's it. and this discussion is assumes they do, which i totally disagree with.

Well, assuming you're right, is there any point whatsoever in trading for Howard, believing he'll opt out this offseason, but having no intention of resigning him?  Why would we even be looking into this if we had no intention of resigning him?  The price can't possibly be low enough to justify ~30 games of Howard.

Sure -- if the price is right.

Without writing out every scenario, there are a bunch of ways Howard could make an impact, or even pan out as more than a rental. But you have to assume that it's most likely he's just that, and be pleasantly surprised if he's more.



 

[BornReady]

Ainge should pass on Howard
If rockets are selling high
At this stage of his career with his injury history
He is not worth the max nor the price tag they have attached to him

[crimson_stallion]

Howard is no longer a number 1 guy on a championship team. So you cant pay him like he is. If he wants that money he's not getting it from Ainge.

Plus, he is 30 and declining, Ainge wants a bigger championship window this time. If he could get him for 16 a year he would consider it.

The plan is to get him for cheap. We have disposable assets, like the picks that the team doesnt want to use all of them, Sullinger that wants a contract the Celtics wont pay, same with Amir, Jerebko and Zeller fo different reasons. Maybe one of them is on the long term plan, but everyone is replaceable. So he could get him for assets than are not on the team's plan, and make a run in the playoffs and try to convince Howard that he can be great here for a lesser price.

You can say the same about almost everybody in the NBA.

Is westbrook the #1 guy on a championship team?  What about Draymond Green?  What about Kevin Love?  Blake Griffin?  John Wall?  Kyle Lowry?  Klay Thompson? Deandre Jordan?

If you thing any one of those guys would get any less than a max deal with the stats they're putting up this season, youre dreaming.

When you have a $90m Cap and almost every team in the league has cap space, you dont med to be the #1 guy on a championship team to be worthy of a max contract.

Dwight Howard is an elite defensive player, an elite rebounder, is a very productive offensive player who can dominate that end of the floor some nights.

Like it or not, that is EASILY a max contract player in a league where Tristan Thompson and Greg Monroe are on max deals.

[j804]

ESPN latest

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14787602/charlotte-hornets-houston-rockets-exploratory-talks-dwight-howard-deal

Wow all it will take is a future 1st to get him, we must not be interested at all?!

[rondohondo]

Howard is no longer a number 1 guy on a championship team. So you cant pay him like he is. If he wants that money he's not getting it from Ainge.

Plus, he is 30 and declining, Ainge wants a bigger championship window this time. If he could get him for 16 a year he would consider it.

The plan is to get him for cheap. We have disposable assets, like the picks that the team doesnt want to use all of them, Sullinger that wants a contract the Celtics wont pay, same with Amir, Jerebko and Zeller fo different reasons. Maybe one of them is on the long term plan, but everyone is replaceable. So he could get him for assets than are not on the team's plan, and make a run in the playoffs and try to convince Howard that he can be great here for a lesser price.

You can say the same about almost everybody in the NBA.

Is westbrook the #1 guy on a championship team?  What about Draymond Green?  What about Kevin Love?  Blake Griffin?  John Wall?  Kyle Lowry?  Klay Thompson? Deandre Jordan?

If you thing any one of those guys would get any less than a max deal with the stats they're putting up this season, youre dreaming.

When you have a $90m Cap and almost every team in the league has cap space, you dont med to be the #1 guy on a championship team to be worthy of a max contract.

Dwight Howard is an elite defensive player, an elite rebounder, is a very productive offensive player who can dominate that end of the floor some nights.

Like it or not, that is EASILY a max contract player in a league where Tristan Thompson and Greg Monroe are on max deals.

exactly , you could trade for howard now and have a core of

IT
Smart
Jae
Howard

Plus cap room to add another max player , and 15 mil+ player if you move AB and the rooks .

Plus likely keeping 2 if not all 3 brk picks .

Howard puts us in the ECF as long as we stay in the 2 or 3 seed .

That deep playoff run and assets attracts other stars here !