Celtics & Rockets discussing Howard trade

[Who]

On the other, he can't shoot, so how does he fit in our current system?

Neither can Sully, but he's playing well. Neither can Smart, but he's playing well. Neither can Turner, but he's playing well. Neither can Amir, but he's playing well.

Glad I'm not Danny. This is a tough one.

I actually think this is an easy one. Low risk, high reward move. Cs desperately need a consolidation trade, and Howard will not command a very high value considering he's a rental.

The Cs can't take 8 guys in this summer's draft. They can't. They need to flip a couple of picks.

Well said. TP

envisioning Brad's line up of defensive hell with some three point shooting sprinkled in:

Smart
Bradley
Crowder
Olynyk
Howard

Dwight would just be a big upgrade over Amir. A starting 5 of

IT
Bradley
Crowder
Olynyk
Howard

would be a good chance to make the ECF and be big underdogs in the ECF.
I guess we've got to consolidate those picks somehow.

2nd best team in the East. Clear separation from Toronto and Chicago.

[ssspence]

does anyone know if we dealt for Howard, and he opted out next year, can we re-sign him without his salary counting towards going 'over' the cap?
If a player opts out, does a team still retain bird rights?

Saltlover, where art thou?

Good question -- would love to know this. The ability to sign two Max FAs and Howard would be pretty cool.

[YoungOne87]

does anyone know if we dealt for Howard, and he opted out next year, can we re-sign him without his salary counting towards going 'over' the cap?
If a player opts out, does a team still retain bird rights?

Saltlover, where art thou?

Good question -- would love to know this. The ability to sign two Max FAs and Howard would be pretty cool.

thats not possible because of howards cap hold

[Who]

Is there anyone in FA that Boston can get that is better than Dwight?

[Donoghus]

Well, C is a need for the Celtics.

The opt-out, obviously, is the kicker here.  I certainly wouldn't empty out the bank for Howard at this point.  Would certainly be willing to part with lowball offers involving Lee, Sullinger, and any non-BKN picks, though.

[arctic 3.0]

does anyone know if we dealt for Howard, and he opted out next year, can we re-sign him without his salary counting towards going 'over' the cap?
If a player opts out, does a team still retain bird rights?

Saltlover, where art thou?

Good question -- would love to know this. The ability to sign two Max FAs and Howard would be pretty cool.

After the Houston fiasco which top tier free agents would want to sign on to play with Howard. Serious question.
It seems to me that Howard is seen as an immature and unserious player.
Not someone dedicated to winning.

[jambr380]

does anyone know if we dealt for Howard, and he opted out next year, can we re-sign him without his salary counting towards going 'over' the cap?
If a player opts out, does a team still retain bird rights?

Saltlover, where art thou?

Good question -- would love to know this. The ability to sign two Max FAs and Howard would be pretty cool.

thats not possible because of howards cap hold

Didn't Lebron opt out of his player option last year? I guess the Cavs also had Bird rights on Love and Thompson and may not have been over the cap before signing them, though.

[spikelovetheCelts]

On the other, he can't shoot, so how does he fit in our current system?

Neither can Sully, but he's playing well. Neither can Smart, but he's playing well. Neither can Turner, but he's playing well. Neither can Amir, but he's playing well.

Glad I'm not Danny. This is a tough one.

I actually think this is an easy one. Low risk, high reward move. Cs desperately need a consolidation trade, and Howard will not command a very high value considering he's a rental.

The Cs can't take 8 guys in this summer's draft. They can't. They need to flip a couple of picks.

Exactly. I also think Danny Drives up noise like Holford and teague to get GM's talking more. If we can add some other pieces like Danilo Gallinari to Howard and our awesome core maybe we can make to the ECF. You never know then in one series. As long as we keep the three nets picks we can rebuild easily. We have Young, Rozier, Mickey and Hunter in the wings already. Plus We look enticing to other FA if we go deeper in playoffs.

[GC003332]

Howard's ability to be the foul magnet that he is would be greatly beneficial for Thomas' driving game and to a much lesser extent Crowder, getting teams into the bonus earlier would work wonders for the team as a whole.As others have said even if it just a 3 month rental you know he will want to put in a great playoff performance to snag possibly his last big time deal, create some buzz with a deeper playoff run that could attract more possible long term free agents this off season.
The peer pressure he will feel with the defensive mindset of this team should bring out the best in him.

[fairweatherfan]

does anyone know if we dealt for Howard, and he opted out next year, can we re-sign him without his salary counting towards going 'over' the cap?
If a player opts out, does a team still retain bird rights?

Saltlover, where art thou?

I believe we keep the Bird Rights - the trick to not having his salary "count" would just be actually inking the deal after any FAs we acquire.  The cap space goes towards the FAs, then we use our Bird Rights to sign Howard over the cap.

...I'm starting to come around on the idea a little bit, it's a logical consolidation opportunity and we desperately need one.  Just don't like Howard much and I'm leery of giving up a lot for a guy who's injury-prone, has some attitude issues, is probably in decline and might bolt in the offseason.  But it does make some sense if the price is right.

[moiso]

Howard is the kind of guy who will say that he wants to be a Celtic for the long haul and then bolt to another team as soon as he faces some adversity. 

[BDeCosta26]

Idk, man. That's a tough one. It really depends on what your sending out. Dork Elvis really likes the kind of assets we have. You figure if DA really wants to get Howard here, he could. To me, I think it's obvious that the likes of Smart, Crowder, Olynyk and IT are certainly off the table, as is the 2016 Brooklyn pick. If we involved a later Brooklyn pick, DA probably wouldn't give much else which doesn't really allow us to consolidate.

If your Houston, and you still plan on making the playoffs (which they do), you've gotta figure they want Amir and his great contract as the salary match over Lee. Amir can play both the 4 and 5, and would help mitigate the loss of Howard. Question is, would you wanna involve Amir in that trade? He's our only real defensive big. If we trade him for Howard and Howard gets injured or opts out and leaves, were stuck with no one.

I guess I'd offer: Lee, Sullinger, Zeller, 2016 Mavs 1st, 2016 Minny 1st (2 2nds), 2016 Miami 2nd

For: Howard

Maybe Instead of Zeller you give them Jerebko or something, because both Zeller and Sully are RFA. But for the Rockets, they add a few pieces to the front court that could fit well with Capela going forward. They can figure out who between them is worth re-signing. They get a 1st that's likely to end up in the late teens (a place Morey likes to get extra picks), 2 early 2nds (another favorite Morey spot) and the cap space from lee's expiring.

For us, we keep all our major assets and consolidate a bunch of the lesser ones for a roll of the dice with Howard. This team needs more defense and rebounding out of their bigs (especially if trading Sullinger) and Howard can provide that in a big way. Pairing him with Olynyk could be quite the dynamite combination, and the Thomas/Howard P&R could give us a go-to offensive set to run when defenses clamp down in the playoffs and Thomas gets a ton of attention. Plus, we trade 3 of our bigs for 1 better big, and clear up some spot minutes for Jordan Mickey and were able to use a couple of those 1000 non-Brooklyn picks we have. Never know though, Howard has a pretty bad rep for being immature and a diva, plus he has injury concerns. It could back-fire and hurt us this year while Howard would opt-in and you'd have lost the cap space you wanted for FA.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I trust DA to do what he thinks is best.

Now, knowing DA if he did make a deal for Howard and he walks on us, what are we losing? I wouldn't think it would be much except for 1 solid player, if that. Say it's lee/jj picks, not much if he does walk. Even if it's for someone as good as Sully, that's not good but it still doesn't cripple us if Howard walks. We can afford to lose one good player. Yes, I would feel the same if that had to be AB, I'm a Celts fan first, I would hate it but I trust DA.

You know I don't like Howard but if we don't give up a lot, do it!


Oh I forgot his money for walking, oh well we still have assets to make moves, FA isn't the be all.

[coffee425]

I wonder what gets it done.
They'd probably want Amir (for a playoff run) and 2 first round picks at a minimum.
Amir+Jerebko+
16' Boston pick
16' Dallas pick

is the very minimum.
Dwight's got another year on his deal and I doubt he opts out.
Would be an amazing defensive upgrade for us and Kelly could start at PF without too much worry with Dwight behind him.

Smart
Bradley
Crowder
Olynyk
Dwight

Brutal defensive lineup with some good 3 point shooting.

this is the only deal i would consider. Sorry Houston, you're not touching those Brooklyn picks for an expiring player.

[kozlodoev]

That'd be a tough one. I hate Dwight Howard's antics with a passion (although I'm sure he's perhaps a nice guy). I guess that makes him the Hanley Ramirez of basketball in my eyes.

But I digress. If the price is right, you have to pull the trigger: so something like Lee, Sullinger, and a combination of picks. Mike Gorman mentioned on SportsHub today that he thinks giving up one of the future Nets picks would be reasonable. I'd much rather give up something from this year, a non-lottery first plus a host of seconds. Doubt it would be enough, but on the other hand, there isn't all that much of a market for Howard.