would you be disappointed if Smart turned out to be Bowen/Tony Allen?

[JBcat]

The only reason it would be disappointing is that it would mean he didn't improve at all over his career.  He's not even 22, so we have a reasonable expectation he should get better.

But Marcus Smart is not Tony Allen.  In each of his first two seasons, Smart has averaged more assists than Allen has, in any season, at a per-36 rate.  He's hit more 3-pointers in his 1.5 seasons (113) than Allen has in 12 (100).  Despite having the ball a lot more than Tony Allen, he turns it over less.  Smart may never be an offensive dynamo, but he's not Tony Allen.  The comparison is lazy.

This.

I'm hoping he ends up being a little mix of Chauncy Billups and Dennis Johnson.

A savvy smart player on O, and a menace on D.  Maybe a little more DJ like.

[CFAN38]

Sidenote: I don't think Smart is a point guard. Doesn't have the handle. He has a high iq and is a good passer but doesn't really create for others that well because he doesn't have the ability to break down a defender off the dribble and get to the paint. He is good off the ball and his defense is outstanding especially against 2 guards. He's a starter but he's not going to be a big scorer. Just doesn't have the skills but thats fine. I love what he brings to the team.

While he is not a traditional break his man down of the dribble get to the paint and kick consistently PG I do think Smart can excel as a starting PG in the Cs current system.

[Evantime34]

Sidenote: I don't think Smart is a point guard. Doesn't have the handle. He has a high iq and is a good passer but doesn't really create for others that well because he doesn't have the ability to break down a defender off the dribble and get to the paint. He is good off the ball and his defense is outstanding especially against 2 guards. He's a starter but he's not going to be a big scorer. Just doesn't have the skills but thats fine. I love what he brings to the team.

While he doesn't break people down off the dribble it does seem like he can run the pick and roll to get into the paint. With how often this team runs the pick and roll/Dribble hand off I think he can get by.

[Dino Pitino]

I honestly think Smart is already a TA type player at 21.

TAs best statistical season was 06/07 when he was 25. Now this year was the season he only played 33 games then suffered a season ending knee injury.

Min 24 ppg 11.5 FGA 11.4 FG% 51% 3PA 1 3PT% 24% RB 3.8 AST 1.7 STL 1.5 TO 2.3

This season Smart is only 21 and has currently play 26 games

Min 27 ppg 9.0 FGA 9 FG% 34% 3PA 3.8 3PT% 22% RB 4.4 AST 3.2 STL 1.7 TO 1.2

Now just giving the stats a quick look its obvious Smart really needs to improve his shot and shot selection. Simply reverting back to his Rookie seasons 33% from three would be fine for me. Aside from the shooting Smart is a much better passer and less turn over prone then TA was. They are both good rebounders and post the same stats per 40.


At 21 Marcus is still a few years away from being in his prime as a pro basketball player. If he can make a natural progression as a shooter and PG I think its safe to envision a day where Smart is averaging 14pt 5rb 5 ast and playing all Defensive 1st team D.

I can definitely envision that day. Smart's floor is Tony Allen, and Smart is clearly a better passer and simply a smarter dude than Tony Allen. 14/5/5 sounds about right, that's a bit like how TA was in the last month of 05-06, but better. Definitely seeing multiple All-Defensive years in Smart's future.

But let's not forget how good Tony Allen was in 06-07 before he ruined his knee. There's the November of 06-07 TA who was fighting for minutes off the bench. And then there's the December/January of 06-07 TA who was starting every game, improving rapidly, and beasting like All Star games were in his near future. That's the best TA has ever been. Using that Allen, the starter from December and half of January, the statline for him in your comparison looks a little different:

32.8 min, 16.4 pts (51.9 fg% on 11.4 attempts, 79.3% on 5.1 free throws, 28.6% on 1.5 threes), 5.5 reb, 2.6 ast, 2.3 stl, 0.6 blk, 3.1 to.

Don't even look at his last two weeks or especially his last 5 games that season, unless you want to remember how crappy it felt as a fan to see all that wild promise crumple into squat on a stupid dunk.

I don't think Marcus Smart is as good as that Tony Allen, yet. That TA was a wild but efficient beast. Smart's shot is not clunky as TA's, but he still misses way too many shots. He's not as sloppy with the ball, but he's not not-sloppy, either. There are some differences differences in Smart's favor, yeah. Smart is way more natural in the role of misfit point guard. But it's a rough analogy, supposed to capture the gist of a player's presence on the court. Smart and TA are not actually doppelgangers. Smart sometimes looks more like a poor man's Wade when he has the ball. He looks like a mini-Artest on defense at times, too. Analogies are an inexact non-science.

[moiso]

I don't see the Bowen part.  Bowen is on defense is more like a bigger Avery Bradley. An excellent one on one defender who can shut down an assigned guy in spurts.  Smart is in another category on defense.  I think he makes more than one player at once nervous...more prone to flashes of defensive brilliance, i.e...taking the game over.  We'll see if Smart gets to Bowen's level as a three point specialist.  I'd rather see him (for now) continue to improve taking it into the paint.  It took Avery a while to improve his handle, but he has.  Once Smart improves his you'll see a big difference in his offensive impact. He's already a good passer and that will get even better once the handle improves.  I see Smart as a starting two guard back-up PG.

Edit:  still a little ticked that TA didn't get more playoff minutes.  There were times none of our aged ones could even get to a loose ball they were so cooked.  When Ray wasn't hitting it was painful not to have TA in on defense.  As much I liked TA, from the moment he arrived in Boston, I think Smart is a much better all around player.  Tony was always more of an athlete than Smart.  Tony could fly when he got to the league.

Smart has ways to go to accomplish what Bowen did.

And Bowen was a multi position defender also.

Smart has the tolls/potential to be even scarier.

Accomplish what Bowen did?  Like wait 8 years and then go to the Spurs?  He already has many more aspects to his game than Bowen ever did.  Bowen just learned to take only certain shots which made him very efficient.  Smart's efficiency will improve.  It generally does.

[indeedproceed]

Marcus Smart is not on Bruce Bowen's level as a defender. That's like saying a grasshopper can fly because it can jump really high.

[moiso]

Marcus Smart is not on Bruce Bowen's level as a defender. That's like saying a grasshopper can fly because it can jump really high.

Different position but he's going to be in the same category of great defenders.  He's already awesome and Bowen wasn't even in the NBA when he was Smart's age, was he?  And he didn't establish himself for years.

[kozlodoev]

The only reason it would be disappointing is that it would mean he didn't improve at all over his career.  He's not even 22, so we have a reasonable expectation he should get better.

But Marcus Smart is not Tony Allen.  In each of his first two seasons, Smart has averaged more assists than Allen has, in any season, at a per-36 rate.  He's hit more 3-pointers in his 1.5 seasons (113) than Allen has in 12 (100).  Despite having the ball a lot more than Tony Allen, he turns it over less.  Smart may never be an offensive dynamo, but he's not Tony Allen.  The comparison is lazy.

Tony Allen is 6'5 and not a PG. Also, Smart has to improve a lot to reach the level of Allen, a roleplayer who understand his role and is relatively efficient in what he does, offensively and defensively. Of course, Smart will need to find something in which he's reasonably efficient offensively first.

I mean, do you think the fact that Smart has hit 12 seasons' worth of Tony Allen in threes is actually an asset? Given his rate of conversion, he probably should probably take a page from Tony's book and, well, not shoot a ton of threes!

[celtics2030]

Marcus Smart is the new Lyndsay Hunter...almost exactly like eachother. Actually the highlight video almost seems like Im watching Marcus Smart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzO1NRoKjLg

[kozlodoev]

Marcus Smart is the new Lyndsay Hunter...almost exactly like eachother. Actually the highlight video almost seems like Im watching Marcus Smart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzO1NRoKjLg

Well, except for the part where Hunter could actually make the three.

[celtics2030]

Tony Allen when he got minutes...

[celtics2030]

Marcus Smart is the new Lyndsay Hunter...almost exactly like eachother. Actually the highlight video almost seems like Im watching Marcus Smart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzO1NRoKjLg

Well, except for the part where Hunter could actually make the three.

im just saying, they play alike. similar skills, similar style,,,,,,,,yea of course, Lyndsay was dependable from 3.

[Evantime34]

Tony Allen when he got minutes...

At age 24. Smart is 21.

[wiley]

I honestly think Smart is already a TA type player at 21.

TAs best statistical season was 06/07 when he was 25. Now this year was the season he only played 33 games then suffered a season ending knee injury.

Min 24 ppg 11.5 FGA 11.4 FG% 51% 3PA 1 3PT% 24% RB 3.8 AST 1.7 STL 1.5 TO 2.3

This season Smart is only 21 and has currently play 26 games

Min 27 ppg 9.0 FGA 9 FG% 34% 3PA 3.8 3PT% 22% RB 4.4 AST 3.2 STL 1.7 TO 1.2

Now just giving the stats a quick look its obvious Smart really needs to improve his shot and shot selection. Simply reverting back to his Rookie seasons 33% from three would be fine for me. Aside from the shooting Smart is a much better passer and less turn over prone then TA was. They are both good rebounders and post the same stats per 40.


At 21 Marcus is still a few years away from being in his prime as a pro basketball player. If he can make a natural progression as a shooter and PG I think its safe to envision a day where Smart is averaging 14pt 5rb 5 ast and playing all Defensive 1st team D.

I can definitely envision that day. Smart's floor is Tony Allen, and Smart is clearly a better passer and simply a smarter dude than Tony Allen. 14/5/5 sounds about right, that's a bit like how TA was in the last month of 05-06, but better. Definitely seeing multiple All-Defensive years in Smart's future.

But let's not forget how good Tony Allen was in 06-07 before he ruined his knee. There's the November of 06-07 TA who was fighting for minutes off the bench. And then there's the December/January of 06-07 TA who was starting every game, improving rapidly, and beasting like All Star games were in his near future. That's the best TA has ever been. Using that Allen, the starter from December and half of January, the statline for him in your comparison looks a little different:

32.8 min, 16.4 pts (51.9 fg% on 11.4 attempts, 79.3% on 5.1 free throws, 28.6% on 1.5 threes), 5.5 reb, 2.6 ast, 2.3 stl, 0.6 blk, 3.1 to.

Don't even look at his last two weeks or especially his last 5 games that season, unless you want to remember how crappy it felt as a fan to see all that wild promise crumple into squat on a stupid dunk.

I don't think Marcus Smart is as good as that Tony Allen, yet. That TA was a wild but efficient beast. Smart's shot is not clunky as TA's, but he still misses way too many shots. He's not as sloppy with the ball, but he's not not-sloppy, either. There are some differences differences in Smart's favor, yeah. Smart is way more natural in the role of misfit point guard. But it's a rough analogy, supposed to capture the gist of a player's presence on the court. Smart and TA are not actually doppelgangers. Smart sometimes looks more like a poor man's Wade when he has the ball. He looks like a mini-Artest on defense at times, too. Analogies are an inexact non-science.

I remember it well.  Tony took over the league for a couple weeks right before he went down.  And of course, never could be that good again...

[Lucky17]

Marcus Smart is the new Lyndsay Hunter...almost exactly like eachother. Actually the highlight video almost seems like Im watching Marcus Smart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzO1NRoKjLg

I remember Lindsey Hunter. He was slighter and shorter than Smart -- much less a physical specimen -- and a much more talented passer and shooter.

Beyond defensive acumen, the comparison seems off to me.