Woj: No one wants Love more than Ainge

[MJohnnyboy]

Been saying it a while Crowder, AB and JJ + Dallas 1st for Love. Cavs would better match up with Warriors. C's finish off year with Tuner, Hunter and Young playing SF.
IT, Smart, Turner, Love, AJ

Offseason
-Nets pick take Ingram.
-Trade C's 2016 1st, Philly 2nd, and Nets 2017 for Noel.
IT, Smart, Ingram, Love, Noel

Correct me if I'm wrong but technically speaking I don't think that works under the CBA because the Celtics don't have the Nets pick in 2017. They can swap picks with the Nets but they don't own it so it's still technically the Celtics pick, and the Celtics can't trade consecutive picks. This works if you make it the 2018 Nets pick though!

We can trade consecutive picks because we have other 1st rounders to make up for it. Correct me if wrong.

But we can't trade our own consecutive picks. He's proposing we trade the 2017 Nets pick which we technically don't have. We can swap picks with the Nets but we don't have their pick that year along with ours. That technically is the Celtics 2017 pick. Since the proposed trade involves the 2016 Celtics pick, the Celtics can't make the deal involving consecutive picks.

[jpotter33]

Been saying it a while Crowder, AB and JJ + Dallas 1st for Love. Cavs would better match up with Warriors. C's finish off year with Tuner, Hunter and Young playing SF.
IT, Smart, Turner, Love, AJ

Offseason
-Nets pick take Ingram.
-Trade C's 2016 1st, Philly 2nd, and Nets 2017 for Noel.
IT, Smart, Ingram, Love, Noel

Correct me if I'm wrong but technically speaking I don't think that works under the CBA because the Celtics don't have the Nets pick in 2017. They can swap picks with the Nets but they don't own it so it's still technically the Celtics pick, and the Celtics can't trade consecutive picks. This works if you make it the 2018 Nets pick though!

We can trade consecutive picks because we have other 1st rounders to make up for it. Correct me if wrong.

But we can't trade our own consecutive picks. He's proposing we trade the 2017 Nets pick which we technically don't have. We can swap picks with the Nets but we don't have their pick that year along with ours. That technically is the Celtics 2017 pick. Since the proposed trade involves the 2016 Celtics pick, the Celtics can't make the deal involving consecutive picks.

I'm fairly certain we can trade our own consecutive picks as long as we have a confirmed pick in every other year. We just can't go two straight years without having any first round pick at all. That's how I thought it was anyways.

[Dino Pitino]

Isn't it crazy that a year ago it'd be ridiculous to think that Crowder would net Love in a trade. Now I'm almost not sure I'd want to give Crowder up for him... Crowder is tough and he's a winner, Love isn't. Crowder has become the backbone of this team

It's truly nuts. Crowder was almost a non-entity, decent filler, an afterthought in a generally disappointing Rondo trade. Love was worth the #1 overall pick. How the lowly have risen, how the mighty have stumbled down.

Crowder really is the backbone now. Barring the acquisition of a first-tier go-to superstar, the way these Celtics are going to become a contender is through a defensive identity that unexpectedly disrupts the offensive identity of the Warriors, Spurs, and/or Cavs. Defense equalizes. It's futile to try to out-offense that kind of offensive firepower.

The Celtics have a team defense that's nearly good enough on its own already to stay in games with the league's elite. Any move where defense is sacrificed for offense is going to be lateral, no matter how good the offense.

Love as an overall asset is worth more than Crowder in a vacuum, yes. But sacrificing Crowder's defense to get Love would, for this particular team, be taking one step forward and one step back. If there weren't a surplus of picks then it might be different, C's might be forced to give up a core player to gamble on getting extra production. But the picks let Ainge wait for the ideal opportunity of using just picks + filler inserting a star into a fully-formed supporting cast, preferably a defensive star, which Love is not. Love would obviously help turn the C's from bad to good on the glass. But the other team has to miss the shots first. Love is a negative there, he needs a player like Crowder next to him, plus a center to protect the rim. Crowder for Love, one year later, is not worth it, will backfire.

If the Cavs would take Sullinger, plus the best non-Brooklyn picks, plus filler, then great. But they won't. If Ainge can find a three-team situation, great. Otherwise just wait to cash in a combination of lower-impact assets and non-core players to get a defense-minded big who can rebound about as well as Love. A rental of Whiteside for relative scraps, a better package of assets for a long-term answer with upside like Noel, something like that. Or cash in the very best assets for a legit superstar-caliber two-way player like Cousins. Love just isn't good enough now to give up that kind of max trade offer, not good enough overall. C's just can't afford to be any kind of team that doesn't compete to be the best in the league on defense. Crowder for Love, let alone adding picks, Bradley, etc. would a case of winner's curse we'd regret for years.

[MJohnnyboy]

Been saying it a while Crowder, AB and JJ + Dallas 1st for Love. Cavs would better match up with Warriors. C's finish off year with Tuner, Hunter and Young playing SF.
IT, Smart, Turner, Love, AJ

Offseason
-Nets pick take Ingram.
-Trade C's 2016 1st, Philly 2nd, and Nets 2017 for Noel.
IT, Smart, Ingram, Love, Noel

Correct me if I'm wrong but technically speaking I don't think that works under the CBA because the Celtics don't have the Nets pick in 2017. They can swap picks with the Nets but they don't own it so it's still technically the Celtics pick, and the Celtics can't trade consecutive picks. This works if you make it the 2018 Nets pick though!

We can trade consecutive picks because we have other 1st rounders to make up for it. Correct me if wrong.

But we can't trade our own consecutive picks. He's proposing we trade the 2017 Nets pick which we technically don't have. We can swap picks with the Nets but we don't have their pick that year along with ours. That technically is the Celtics 2017 pick. Since the proposed trade involves the 2016 Celtics pick, the Celtics can't make the deal involving consecutive picks.

I'm fairly certain we can trade our own consecutive picks as long as we have a confirmed pick in every other year. We just can't go two straight years without having any first round pick at all. That's how I thought it was anyways.

Ah! My b!

[slamtheking]

Been saying it a while Crowder, AB and JJ + Dallas 1st for Love. Cavs would better match up with Warriors. C's finish off year with Tuner, Hunter and Young playing SF.
IT, Smart, Turner, Love, AJ

Offseason
-Nets pick take Ingram.
-Trade C's 2016 1st, Philly 2nd, and Nets 2017 for Noel.
IT, Smart, Ingram, Love, Noel

Correct me if I'm wrong but technically speaking I don't think that works under the CBA because the Celtics don't have the Nets pick in 2017. They can swap picks with the Nets but they don't own it so it's still technically the Celtics pick, and the Celtics can't trade consecutive picks. This works if you make it the 2018 Nets pick though!

We can trade consecutive picks because we have other 1st rounders to make up for it. Correct me if wrong.

But we can't trade our own consecutive picks. He's proposing we trade the 2017 Nets pick which we technically don't have. We can swap picks with the Nets but we don't have their pick that year along with ours. That technically is the Celtics 2017 pick. Since the proposed trade involves the 2016 Celtics pick, the Celtics can't make the deal involving consecutive picks.

I'm fairly certain we can trade our own consecutive picks as long as we have a confirmed pick in every other year. We just can't go two straight years without having any first round pick at all. That's how I thought it was anyways.

that's my understanding as well.  a team can't go without a first rounder for 2 consecutive years.  it doesn't matter who's pick they use but they have to have one every other year.  of course, it doesn't mean that the team can't trade the pick after it's made on draft night

[Big333223]

The problem with trading Crowder in a deal that brings back Love is that Love needs a versatile defender on the team to cover his inadequacies. Crowder could be that guy. I certainly think Love is a more valuable player than Crowder but I think Love's value drops without someone ilke Crowder around. So maybe that means I wouldn't want to trade Crowder away to get Love.

The other thing is, dealing a wing for a PF would be silly for this team right now.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I think that the Cavs would absolutely need Bradley if we're not throwing in Smart. 

They'd want like 3 firsts, so our pick this year, the Dallas pick and our 2018 pick would hopefully work.

They'd need matching salary, so Amir would be good as he can actually play and he's waivable.

So right now it's Amir, Bradley and 3 firsts.  Is that really going to be enough?  What if we threw in Rozier, Zeller or Sully?  What if we took on Mozgov, Varejao or JR Smith (ugh I don't want JR, though)?  We could match Vareajao with Lee perhaps and get them out a year early, as neither player is even playing now anyways.

I'm hoping that it becomes really toxic and he demands a trade to Boston.  We could give them a B- package like above and not give up anything too valuable. 

[chambers]

Really wouldn't want to see Jae Crowder on the same team as LeBron. Jae is such a Celtic thru and thru and want him on the team to beat LeBron. The only other guys i wouldn't want to go in a deal for Love is Marcus and IT. Other than that they cant take whatever player and OUR pick not BKN's.

So in other words, you're willing to give up all our bums/scrubs/scraps and nothing that would actually get Kwvin Love here? 

[CelticSooner]

Crowder is the one guy I'd hate to lose most on the team. In today's NBA you need that wing that can guard multiple positions well. Those are few and far between. Guy feels like a cornerstone of the future for the organization.

[chambers]

I would bet my house that Danny is offering the following:
Avery Bradley+
Amir Johnson+
Kelly Olynyk+
Dallas pick+
+2nd round picks.

Griffin is demanding Jae Crowder+Amir and is probably asking for Avery Bradley as well, with them sending us back Jarred Cunningham.

Danny won't want to let both Jae and Bradley go because we need at least one of them next to Smart on the perimeter, especially with Love coming back. The beauty of the Nets pick though is that getting Jaylen Brown, Kris Dunn, Buddy Hield etc is that they are all pitbull defenders that can fill that void next year.

I actually would speculate that Danny would rather send out:
Bradley+IT and keep Crowder above all else.

Something like:
Bradley+
IT+
Turner+
Zeller+
Dallas pick

For

Love +
Cunningham+
Mo Williams

unlikely anything happens til next season though.

[Kuberski33]

Remove one of the top defenders on the 3rd ranked defensive team in league (and one who's on a team friendly contract) for Love?  Pass.  You weaken your team defensively for a slight improvement on the boards and a few more points.

And that's assuming Love plays to his potential, which he hasn't done in a long time.

[MBunge]

1.  The Cavs don't want picks.  They are totally in win now mode.  They wouldn't even trade Love for all 3 Nets picks.

2.  Given that, a trade for Love would be something like Bradley, Crowder, KO and filler for Love, Shumpert and filler.

3.  Love is the best player is the deal but is he good enough to be the best player on a title contender?

4.  The best deal for Boston is a multi-team deal.  Nets send Thaddeus Young and Brooke Lopez to Cleveland.  Love goes to Boston.  KO, Varejo and Mozgov go the Nets and we give them back their 2017 and 2018 picks.

Mike

[Ogaju]

I read a rumor the sixers are not completely happy with Okafor.

I mean, they've got 3 center prospects and I think this year has shown pretty clearly they can't expect to have any success playing Noel and Okafor together.

They're probably not happy about that.

Do I believe they dislike Okafor as a player and will try to trade him sooner rather than later?  No.

I don't see how Philly can keep Noel, Okafor, and Embiid for too much longer, though, so I suspect one or more of them will become available.  They'll most assuredly demand quite a haul, though.

they can demand whatever they want, but a shrewd negotiator will not pay much knowing they certainly have to deal one of them.

[jpotter33]

I would bet my house that Danny is offering the following:
Avery Bradley+
Amir Johnson+
Kelly Olynyk+
Dallas pick+
+2nd round picks.

Griffin is demanding Jae Crowder+Amir and is probably asking for Avery Bradley as well, with them sending us back Jarred Cunningham.

Danny won't want to let both Jae and Bradley go because we need at least one of them next to Smart on the perimeter, especially with Love coming back. The beauty of the Nets pick though is that getting Jaylen Brown, Kris Dunn, Buddy Hield etc is that they are all pitbull defenders that can fill that void next year.

I actually would speculate that Danny would rather send out:
Bradley+IT and keep Crowder above all else.

Something like:
Bradley+
IT+
Turner+
Zeller+
Dallas pick

For

Love +
Cunningham+
Mo Williams

unlikely anything happens til next season though.

Honestly, I'd rather give up another pick than give up Amir, especially if we're giving up Bradley AND Olynyk. We're going to need Amir's defense with Love. Lee could be the salary filler, and he'd actually still probably play a minor back-up role on their team in small-ball lineups. Something like:

Bradley, Olynyk, Lee, Dallas pick, our 2016 pick for Love and Mozgov (not sure if they'd part with him, but he's not needed as much with Varejao healthy and them going small). That'd give us a pretty dang solid lineup of this:

PG: IT, Turner
SG: Smart, Hunter/Young
SF: Crowder, JJ
PF: Love, Sully
C: Amir, Mozgov

Though I'd really hate to give up KO in any trade, though he'd be redundant with Love here anyways.

[Corey]

1.  The Cavs don't want picks.  They are totally in win now mode.  They wouldn't even trade Love for all 3 Nets picks.

Stopped reading right here.