The trade deadline and the standings

[slamtheking]

For all the fingernail biting and groans, the Celtics are now in fifth place only two games behind Chicago and Atlanta. We are only three games above .500. I think for now this makes sense. Cleveland is Cleveland. Atlanta and Chicago have pride built over a number of years. The true threat to LeBron is probably the Raptors.

Toronto is our older brother. Washington was too last year but have fallen off the winner map. We have owned the Wizards this year and tonight's game should be another barometer for where the Celtics lie in the Eastern Conference power rankings.

We are finding out in real time whether the Celtics are able or not to pile up wins. We are a proven .500 team. This has been a very quick rebuild. Fans should be very happy. I know I am.

Danny will do some tinkering, imho, if he is unable to acquire fireworks. The difference this year is he's finally wheeling and dealing from a position of strength, not always having to unload players.

All the question mark Celtics players have contracts running out. And all this is occurring while we are seeded #5. Last year we were 14 games under .500. If our current team can keep it together until the roster is set, I predict we will get that 50 win season as originally advertised.

not sure who advertised it but you're stating you think the C's will go 25-11 the rest of the season.  I don't see that happening.  They're only 4 games over .500.  I still think they'll break even this season but if they got to 45 I'd be pretty pleasantly surprised and happy to see some improvement over last year while collecting that nice, high Brooklyn pick

[Ilikesports17]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

If "rebuild" means "get back to competing for a playoff spot," then yes, by all means.

My criteria is a little more stringent though.  I won't consider the team "rebuilt" until they're relevant in any discussion of the post-season.  Which, to me, means that, though they might not be considered an actual contender, they are regarded as a team with a chance of knocking off a contender, i.e. the sort of team a contender would not like to face on their way to the Finals (example would be the Grizzlies of the last few years, the Pacers a couple years back, and those Chicago teams that unfortunately could never stay healthy).

When they do finally reach that point, I'll only be truly satisfied with it if there seems to be a plausible avenue for taking yet another step toward genuine contention, and sustaining that level of success for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I have high standards.  I'm OK with that.

I think the Celts are still a great distance from being "rebuilt," given all of that.  It's a scrappy team that's been up and down due to deficiencies in talent and size, but they're well coached and deep.  Nevertheless, I don't think they have a prayer in the post-season.  This team is not built for playoff basketball. 

All of which is fine.  This rebuild only just began a couple years ago.


Anyway, I think this will be a quiet deadline, and the names most likely to move -- Ryan Anderson and Markieff Morris top the list for me -- don't seem like they'd help the Celts all that much.

I agree and also share very high standards for this team. The Lakers are 1 title away from us and that is something we need to think about.

What bothers me are the people that think 2 championships in 30 years is pretty good. We are the Celtics and championships really only matter, especially since we have the most.

I get where you are coming from but in a salary cap era where every team can afford any player, every team is trying as hard to get championships.

2 in 30 is above average based purely on the fact that there are 30 teams and then you have to take into account the bad luck of Len Bias Reggie Lewis and even the 2009 KG injury, and the absurd refereeing of the 2010 finals and 2012 ECF.

That's a lot of things going wrong for 1 franchise which had historically had everything go just right for them.

Ultimately as fans we obviously should expect championships and not strive to be pretty good for a while, but all things considered 2 in 30 years isn't all that bad.

[Boris Badenov]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

If "rebuild" means "get back to competing for a playoff spot," then yes, by all means.

My criteria is a little more stringent though.  I won't consider the team "rebuilt" until they're relevant in any discussion of the post-season.  Which, to me, means that, though they might not be considered an actual contender, they are regarded as a team with a chance of knocking off a contender, i.e. the sort of team a contender would not like to face on their way to the Finals (example would be the Grizzlies of the last few years, the Pacers a couple years back, and those Chicago teams that unfortunately could never stay healthy).

When they do finally reach that point, I'll only be truly satisfied with it if there seems to be a plausible avenue for taking yet another step toward genuine contention, and sustaining that level of success for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I have high standards.  I'm OK with that.

I think the Celts are still a great distance from being "rebuilt," given all of that.  It's a scrappy team that's been up and down due to deficiencies in talent and size, but they're well coached and deep.  Nevertheless, I don't think they have a prayer in the post-season.  This team is not built for playoff basketball. 

All of which is fine.  This rebuild only just began a couple years ago.


Anyway, I think this will be a quiet deadline, and the names most likely to move -- Ryan Anderson and Markieff Morris top the list for me -- don't seem like they'd help the Celts all that much.

I agree and also share very high standards for this team. The Lakers are 1 title away from us and that is something we need to think about.

What bothers me are the people that think 2 championships in 30 years is pretty good. We are the Celtics and championships really only matter, especially since we have the most.

I get where you are coming from but in a salary cap era where every team can afford any player, every team is trying as hard to get championships.

2 in 30 is above average based purely on the fact that there are 30 teams and then you have to take into account the bad luck of Len Bias Reggie Lewis and even the 2009 KG injury, and the absurd refereeing of the 2010 finals and 2012 ECF.

That's a lot of things going wrong for 1 franchise which had historically had everything go just right for them.

Ultimately as fans we obviously should expect championships and not strive to be pretty good for a while, but all things considered 2 in 30 years isn't all that bad.

It's even better than that. There are only 6 other teams in the league (Spurs, Lakers, Bulls, Pistons, Heat and Rockets) to win 2 or more championships in the last 30 years. Other than us, only 8 teams have won a ring at all.

We're actually still in elite company, even during what by our standards is a "drought."
 

[BDeCosta26]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

If "rebuild" means "get back to competing for a playoff spot," then yes, by all means.

My criteria is a little more stringent though.  I won't consider the team "rebuilt" until they're relevant in any discussion of the post-season.  Which, to me, means that, though they might not be considered an actual contender, they are regarded as a team with a chance of knocking off a contender, i.e. the sort of team a contender would not like to face on their way to the Finals (example would be the Grizzlies of the last few years, the Pacers a couple years back, and those Chicago teams that unfortunately could never stay healthy).

When they do finally reach that point, I'll only be truly satisfied with it if there seems to be a plausible avenue for taking yet another step toward genuine contention, and sustaining that level of success for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I have high standards.  I'm OK with that.

I think the Celts are still a great distance from being "rebuilt," given all of that.  It's a scrappy team that's been up and down due to deficiencies in talent and size, but they're well coached and deep.  Nevertheless, I don't think they have a prayer in the post-season.  This team is not built for playoff basketball. 

All of which is fine.  This rebuild only just began a couple years ago.


Anyway, I think this will be a quiet deadline, and the names most likely to move -- Ryan Anderson and Markieff Morris top the list for me -- don't seem like they'd help the Celts all that much.

I don't think anyone thinks of this team as "rebuilt" Pho. It's certainly still re-building. Some of the players we have now won't be here when were a contender again. Some of them will, IMO. I think Danny Ainge would agree with you. We're not "rebuilt" until we have a team that is capable of winning a title.

That said, in year three of our rebuild, were the 5th youngest team in the entire NBA and were already an almost certain playoff team, one that could very well be a top 4 or 5 seed by the time it's all said and done. That's pretty dang good. Were obviously not done yet. But our young guys have showed some major improvement, and it's quite possible for us to go from a high lottery team, to a .500ish fringe playoff team, to a 45-49 win 4 or 5 seed in just three years (which shows marked continued improvement) while also having an almost guaranteed top 5 pick, with an excellent chance at the top pick.

You guys aren't the only people who have high expectations for the Celtics. But if your at all reasonable, you can see that this rebuild is going just about as well as we could possibly imagine. Just think about this: As of right now, it's very possible if not likely, that we ride a clearly improving team, one of the youngest teams in the NBA to a playoff run while we also receive one of the highest lottery picks in the draft (And a very good chance at one of Simmons/Ingram). In the 3rd year of our rebuild! Is that not more than you could've hoped for the day we traded Pierce and KG?

[Kuberski33]

This has been a very quick rebuild. Fans should be very happy. I know I am.

Well, Danny has landed one all star - whether IT actually makes it or not, he's playing at that level - any he's not done improving.  They're not there yet, but are definitely headed in right direction.  They'll be even closer if they hit on that Brooklyn pick in the spring.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd called this a quick rebuild. I'd say we're on track to have one, but nothing is a given, there's still a lot of luck at play here, and who knows if it'll fall on our side or not. But there's little to complaint about how Ainge has positioned us, time to cross our fingers that he'll manage to deliver the rest.

[PhoSita]

I don't think anyone thinks of this team as "rebuilt" Pho. It's certainly still re-building. Some of the players we have now won't be here when were a contender again. Some of them will, IMO. I think Danny Ainge would agree with you. We're not "rebuilt" until we have a team that is capable of winning a title.

That said, in year three of our rebuild, were the 5th youngest team in the entire NBA and were already an almost certain playoff team, one that could very well be a top 4 or 5 seed by the time it's all said and done. That's pretty dang good.

The OP seems to think this has been a "fast rebuild," so the sentiment is out there in some form, apparently.


Brad deserves a lot of credit for getting the most out of this fairly mismatched and undervalued bunch, more often than not.

Danny deserves credit for (mostly) making really good decisions going after buy-low candidates and generally underappreciated bench players who have done good things here in Boston.

All of that said, Danny's rebuild process has involved diversifying assets and squeezing marginal value out of every transaction.  Which is fine, but to some extent it makes the rebuild seem "faster" than it has been because the pile of assets he's collected exists in part in the form of guys who are more "win now" than "win later."


In all likelihood, the Celts will be rebuilding for at least another 3-4 years, and when the process is more or less finished I think we'll look back and it won't seem quite so linear.  There's a lot to feel good about with the way things have gone so far.  Certainly it's better than watching a team with no apparent clue of what it wants to do finish in the bottom 10 multiple years in the row and fail to draft a single stand-out talent.

I'm just saying, well, there is still a long way to go, and it may be the case that almost none of these guys who are so likable right now are actually on the team when Danny's finally put together the 2-3 top level talents who will take us where we want to go. 

If I sound unreasonably adamant about this point, I guess it's because, while I like this team, I'm worried about Danny and Co. doubling down on a group that is nice but isn't really more than a likable curiousity, to the detriment of the long term process.  Maybe that's silly.  Maybe we'll get a superstar thanks to the Nets this summer and it won't matter.  I hope so.  Praise God hallelujah.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I don't think anyone thinks of this team as "rebuilt" Pho. It's certainly still re-building. Some of the players we have now won't be here when were a contender again. Some of them will, IMO. I think Danny Ainge would agree with you. We're not "rebuilt" until we have a team that is capable of winning a title.

That said, in year three of our rebuild, were the 5th youngest team in the entire NBA and were already an almost certain playoff team, one that could very well be a top 4 or 5 seed by the time it's all said and done. That's pretty dang good.

The OP seems to think this has been a "fast rebuild," so the sentiment is out there in some form, apparently.


Brad deserves a lot of credit for getting the most out of this fairly mismatched and undervalued bunch, more often than not.

Danny deserves credit for (mostly) making really good decisions going after buy-low candidates and generally underappreciated bench players who have done good things here in Boston.

All of that said, Danny's rebuild process has involved diversifying assets and squeezing marginal value out of every transaction.  Which is fine, but to some extent it makes the rebuild seem "faster" than it has been because the pile of assets he's collected exists in part in the form of guys who are more "win now" than "win later."


In all likelihood, the Celts will be rebuilding for at least another 3-4 years, and when the process is more or less finished I think we'll look back and it won't seem quite so linear.  There's a lot to feel good about with the way things have gone so far.  Certainly it's better than watching a team with no apparent clue of what it wants to do finish in the bottom 10 multiple years in the row and fail to draft a single stand-out talent.

I'm just saying, well, there is still a long way to go, and it may be the case that almost none of these guys who are so likable right now are actually on the team when Danny's finally put together the 2-3 top level talents who will take us where we want to go. 

If I sound unreasonably adamant about this point, I guess it's because, while I like this team, I'm worried about Danny and Co. doubling down on a group that is nice but isn't really more than a likable curiousity, to the detriment of the long term process.  Maybe that's silly.  Maybe we'll get a superstar thanks to the Nets this summer and it won't matter.  I hope so.  Praise God hallelujah.

You're just saying that because Jordan Mickey hasn't played all that much this season, just you wait!!

[Csfan1984]

I am hoping for an upgrade but most GMs won't dare make a move till offseason. C's will just have to do deals on draft night. I expect no deals for C's in season.

[BDeCosta26]

I don't think anyone thinks of this team as "rebuilt" Pho. It's certainly still re-building. Some of the players we have now won't be here when were a contender again. Some of them will, IMO. I think Danny Ainge would agree with you. We're not "rebuilt" until we have a team that is capable of winning a title.

That said, in year three of our rebuild, were the 5th youngest team in the entire NBA and were already an almost certain playoff team, one that could very well be a top 4 or 5 seed by the time it's all said and done. That's pretty dang good.

The OP seems to think this has been a "fast rebuild," so the sentiment is out there in some form, apparently.


Brad deserves a lot of credit for getting the most out of this fairly mismatched and undervalued bunch, more often than not.

Danny deserves credit for (mostly) making really good decisions going after buy-low candidates and generally underappreciated bench players who have done good things here in Boston.

All of that said, Danny's rebuild process has involved diversifying assets and squeezing marginal value out of every transaction.  Which is fine, but to some extent it makes the rebuild seem "faster" than it has been because the pile of assets he's collected exists in part in the form of guys who are more "win now" than "win later."


In all likelihood, the Celts will be rebuilding for at least another 3-4 years, and when the process is more or less finished I think we'll look back and it won't seem quite so linear.  There's a lot to feel good about with the way things have gone so far.  Certainly it's better than watching a team with no apparent clue of what it wants to do finish in the bottom 10 multiple years in the row and fail to draft a single stand-out talent.

I'm just saying, well, there is still a long way to go, and it may be the case that almost none of these guys who are so likable right now are actually on the team when Danny's finally put together the 2-3 top level talents who will take us where we want to go. 

If I sound unreasonably adamant about this point, I guess it's because, while I like this team, I'm worried about Danny and Co. doubling down on a group that is nice but isn't really more than a likable curiousity, to the detriment of the long term process.  Maybe that's silly.  Maybe we'll get a superstar thanks to the Nets this summer and it won't matter.  I hope so.  Praise God hallelujah.

I can understand the sentiment but I just don't see a lot of where Ainge is trading "win now for win later".

I guess the Thomas trade qualifies, but when your at the start of a rebuild part of the game is acquiring assets. Trading what's gonna become the 28th pick in the draft for Isaiah Thomas as 7.5 Million a year is a trade you just can't turn down. He's obviously, as we've seen this year, an all-star caliber player. If we traded him right now he'd fetch a whole lot more than what we paid for him, which is something Ainge knew would be true going into it. Still, Thomas is a 26 year old AS caliber PG. It's not like he couldn't have a place on the next great Celtic contender, but even if he didn't you could easily move him for a substantial profit. Asset collection. Making deals that turn into bigger deals.

Same for the Lee trade. Gerald Wallace was worth literally nothing. GS will take him for David Lee, a guy who just played big minutes in the finals and a former all star. He's a FA at the end of the year. You take that deal because your still collecting assets, and if Lee can provide some good play he can get you something (or be a contract involved) in a trade. If he doesn't, you glue him to the end of the bench until you dump him, which is exactly what we did.

Everyone else fits the idea around this team. Crowder is 25, Thomas is 26, Bradley is 24, Olynyk is 24, Sully is 23, Smart is 22 and we have a wave of even younger guys developing behind them. Heck, even Turner, Amir and JJ are 28 or under. Considering the flexibility we have on the draft, trade and FA markets, having a team that will be reaching it's peak in 2-4 years is probably a good thing. 

I guess I'd agree more with that line of thinking if we were sacrificing the development of our young guys for over-the-hill veterans, but I don't think our team of guys in their early to mid 20's qualifies.

When you add in the Brooklyn picks coming up and the flexibility that allows us in trades, the team we have now is a great foundation to work with. Do you think it would be best if we traded Thomas/Bradley/Crowder for future assets?

[GC003332]

If a roster spot opens up via trade at the deadline, the Celts should look into adding this guy for some added depth, he could be this season's JaVale McGee pickup.
He has managed to stay healthy after an early season hand injury , getting 27 mins a game putting up 12 & 12.
When the Chinese season ends he will have plenty of time to get acclimated back to speed on the NBA.
He could provide an inside presence in the playoffs for 5-10 minutes a night.
If it doesn't work out what is the harm.

[iadera]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

If "rebuild" means "get back to competing for a playoff spot," then yes, by all means.

My criteria is a little more stringent though.  I won't consider the team "rebuilt" until they're relevant in any discussion of the post-season.  Which, to me, means that, though they might not be considered an actual contender, they are regarded as a team with a chance of knocking off a contender, i.e. the sort of team a contender would not like to face on their way to the Finals (example would be the Grizzlies of the last few years, the Pacers a couple years back, and those Chicago teams that unfortunately could never stay healthy).

When they do finally reach that point, I'll only be truly satisfied with it if there seems to be a plausible avenue for taking yet another step toward genuine contention, and sustaining that level of success for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I have high standards.  I'm OK with that.

I think the Celts are still a great distance from being "rebuilt," given all of that.  It's a scrappy team that's been up and down due to deficiencies in talent and size, but they're well coached and deep.  Nevertheless, I don't think they have a prayer in the post-season.  This team is not built for playoff basketball. 

All of which is fine.  This rebuild only just began a couple years ago.


Anyway, I think this will be a quiet deadline, and the names most likely to move -- Ryan Anderson and Markieff Morris top the list for me -- don't seem like they'd help the Celts all that much.

I agree and also share very high standards for this team. The Lakers are 1 title away from us and that is something we need to think about.

What bothers me are the people that think 2 championships in 30 years is pretty good. We are the Celtics and championships really only matter, especially since we have the most.

Absolutely!

[LilRip]

Can't see the Celtics making any moves this trade deadline, or many teams for that matter. As for all this talk about us being #5 (pre-Wizards win, at least), don't get carried away just yet. We were like 24-21 or something. Meanwhile, the 6th to I think the 8th seed were all sitting at 23-21. That means a loss against the Wiz earlier would have thrown us all the way back to 9th.

[spikelovetheCelts]

If a roster spot opens up via trade at the deadline, the Celts should look into adding this guy for some added depth, he could be this season's JaVale McGee pickup.
He has managed to stay healthy after an early season hand injury , getting 27 mins a game putting up 12 & 12.
When the Chinese season ends he will have plenty of time to get acclimated back to speed on the NBA.
He could provide an inside presence in the playoffs for 5-10 minutes a night.
If it doesn't work out what is the harm.

Oden would be a good one. I would not mind taking a flyer on Hibbert by sending Lee to Laker and 2nd round pick as well.  Crawford may want a round two with his fav coach as well.

[CelticPride2016]

I take issue with this "it's been a quick rebuild" thing.

I like to start my own threads, so that I feel less obligated to engage with people who write a bit too much, condescend a bit too much, and who are primarily negative fans who one may wonder if they ever even lived in the Boston area.

This was the roster in 2013:

Joel Anthony   C
Chris Babb    SG   
Brandon Bass   PF
Jerryd Bayless   PG
Vander Blue   SG
Keith Bogans   SG
Avery Bradley   PG
MarShon Brooks   SG   
Jordan Crawford   SG   
Vitor Faverani   C   
Jeff Green     SF   
Kris Humphries   PF
Chris Johnson   SF   
Courtney Lee   SG   
Kelly Olynyk   C   
Phil Pressey   PG   
Rajon Rondo   PG   
Jared Sullinger   PF   
Gerald Wallace   SF

Three players remain and probably two after Sullinger goes away. Sully was selected pre-Stevens while we still had Pierce and KG. He doesn't fit in. The rebuild is basically over. Now it's a matter of playing out the chips.

We had absolutely nothing going for us in Stevens' first year. It has taken a lot of little Ainge moves to get this team into a semblance of where it's headed.

Some people on this forum think everyone else is here for them and expect us to read every word they post. No one is obligated to read one word of anyone. They can drop their comments. I don't own this thread. It doesn't mean I am obligated to let them dictate what I think and write.

The heavy lifting has been done. A rebuild implies that something has been broken down and is being reconstructed. That's been done.

The main parts of the rebuild have been completed. We don't know what Ainge will do, but he will be dealing from this new position which is now neither a rebuild nor tanking. It is the playing of what cards we have. It only took two and a half years to reach this new level.

And I will also point out that many of these wordsmiths have been very focused on tanking, Philadelphia, treadmills, negativity towards our young players, and with a general know-it-all attitude that tends to be proven wrong time and time again.