Another Draft Miss: Rodney Hood

[hwangjini_1]

 Yes. It does. Young=Garbage

exactly the word used to describe bradley early on. again, why the rush to judgement? and even if young does not pan out, it was a swing for the fences by ainge. at that draft spot i glad ainge took a chance in stead of playing it safe.

[hwangjini_1]

How many times does Ainge have to blatantly miss on picks considering players taken afterwards for folks to admit it's a weakness and a concern? The whole "hindsight is 20 / 20" argument wears thin. It's part of the job, and a variety of lower quality NBA GMs seem to be out-scouting the Celtics.

Is it because it's painful to admit? Or because it's a helpless issue?

It's happened virtually every year since the Big 3 era started...

or maybe because you are wrong on ainge's drafts. this issue has been beaten to death so many times here. for the positions available to ainge, his track record is better than most GMs.

as for judging a GM solely on "misses", that approach has flaws. i once did an analysis of the "draft misses" by san antonio and it became clear immediately how the spurs are run by buffoons and know-nothings. each year i could point to a "missed" pick for them.

clearly san antonio is going nowhere with a GM like that! 

[manl_lui]

with our log jam of guards, had we picked Hood, would he be in the same situation as Young?

[ssspence]

How many times does Ainge have to blatantly miss on picks considering players taken afterwards for folks to admit it's a weakness and a concern? The whole "hindsight is 20 / 20" argument wears thin. It's part of the job, and a variety of lower quality NBA GMs seem to be out-scouting the Celtics.

Is it because it's painful to admit? Or because it's a helpless issue?

It's happened virtually every year since the Big 3 era started...

or maybe because you are wrong on ainge's drafts. this issue has been beaten to death so many times here. for the positions available to ainge, his track record is better than most GMs.

as for judging a GM solely on "misses", that approach has flaws. i once did an analysis of the "draft misses" by san antonio and it became clear immediately how the spurs are run by buffoons and know-nothings. each year i could point to a "missed" pick for them.

clearly san antonio is going nowhere with a GM like that! 

why don't you link to that analysis here. without it, you basically just said absolutely nothing above aside from "win some, lose some"....

when I look at the Spurs? I see 4 All-Stars they've drafted that are still on their roster, only one of which was taken before the 16th pick (Duncan). And one of them (Leonard) may very well win an MVP one day. This is not to mention Patty Mills (a very late pick) and Kyle Anderson, who has yet to get his chance.

[frosty33]

guess which one is 23 yrs old (24 in April) and which one is 20 yrs old. Mind you, when Young turns 24 he might be out of the league by then or producing the same as Hood is nowadays but i'll take my chances with the 17th pick in a crappy 2014 draft.

[ssspence]

Ainge drafted pretty well until 2006. Here are his draft picks since 2007:

2007: Gabe Pruitt (32nd pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Marc Gasol, Josh McRoberts and Ramon Sessions
2007: Glen Davis (35th pick) -- bench contributor, now out of the league
2008: JR Giddens (30th pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include DeAndre Jordan, Mario Chalmers, Goran Dragic, Omer Asik, The Fresh Prince, Sonny Weems, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Ante Tomic, and Sasha Kuan
2008: Bill Walker (47th pick) -- bust; out of the league
2008: Semih Erden (60th pick) -- bust, out of the league
2009: Lester Hudson (58th pick) -- bust, out of the league
2010: Avery Bradley (19th pick) -- NBA rotation player; pretty good value when looking at the whole of this draft. Arguably Ainge's best pick of this time period.
2010: Luke Harangody (52nd pick) -- bust, out of the league
2011: JaJuan Johnson (27th pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Norris Cole, Jimmy Butler, Cory Joseph, Shelvin Mack, Bojan Bogdanovic, Kyle Singler, Chandler Parsons, Jon Leuer, Lavoy Allen, and Isaiah Thomas
2011: E'Twaun Moore (55th pick) -- getting checks in the league for reasons that are unclear to me; Isaiah Thomas taken a few picks later.
2012: Jared Sullinger (21st pick) -- NBA rotation player; players selected after include Draymond Green, Miles Plumlee, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton, Festus Ezeli, Will Barton and Kyle O'Quinn
2012: Fab Melo (22nd pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Draymond Green, Miles Plumlee, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton, Festus Ezeli, Will Barton and Kyle O'Quinn
2012: Kris Joseph (52nd pick) -- bust, out of the league
2013: Kelly Olynyk (13th pick) -- NBA rotation player; players selected after include Rudy Gobert, The Greek Freak, Denis Schroder and Gorgui Dieng
2013: Colton Iverson (48th pick) -- bust, never going to play in the league. Selected two slots after: Joffrey Lauvergne
2014: Marcus Smart (6th pick) -- NBA rotation player. Jury still out.
2014: James Young (17th pick) -- Very shaky. Celtics went out of their way to hype his upside, but he's largely looked lost and unplayable. Players selected after include Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Clint Capela, Mitch McGary, Nikola Jokic, Jordan Clarkson and Dwight Powell
2015: Terry Rozier (16th pick) -- Considering by virtually everyone outside the Cs to be a reach at this pick. Essentially has not played. Players selected after include Rashad Vaughn, Jerian Grant, Delon Wright, Bobby Portis, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Larry Nance, Jr.
2015: RJ Hunter (28th pick) -- Has shown flashes, but has barely played.
2015: Jordan Mickey (33rd pick) -- Hype train central, but has yet to see his first meaningful minute in the NBA. High hopes.
2015: Marcus Thornton (45th pick) -- Struggling in Australia; Players selected after include a variety of European players, 1 or 2 of which will materialize into NBA players, like every other year.

Takeaways:

• two starters on a .500 team
• two bench players on a .500 team
• zero all-star appearances
• zero players selected from outside North America
• outside of rookies currently on the Cs + James Young, only one other guy in the league (who rides pine)
• 12 out of 21 guys out of the league, but this doesn't account for 3 Cs rookies + Young, who may or may not make it
• Over a dozen European players taken after the Cs picks who would have been better selections
• A long list of meaningful NBA players missed, including a good number of All-Stars, high impact players, and rising stars

This is not an above average draft history. If there was even one Rondo or Jefferson in this list, it might make the sting of fairly consistent misses -- and the Cs complete lack of European scouting -- look a little better.

[Ilikesports17]

Ainge drafted pretty well until 2006. Here are his draft picks since 2007:

2007: Gabe Pruitt (32nd pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Marc Gasol, Josh McRoberts and Ramon Sessions
2007: Glen Davis (35th pick) -- bench contributor, now out of the league
2008: JR Giddens (30th pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include DeAndre Jordan, Mario Chalmers, Goran Dragic, Omer Asik, The Fresh Prince, Sonny Weems, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Ante Tomic, and Sasha Kuan
2008: Bill Walker (47th pick) -- bust; out of the league
2008: Semih Erden (60th pick) -- bust, out of the league
2009: Lester Hudson (58th pick) -- bust, out of the league
2010: Avery Bradley (19th pick) -- NBA rotation player; pretty good value when looking at the whole of this draft. Arguably Ainge's best pick of this time period.
2010: Luke Harangody (52nd pick) -- bust, out of the league
2011: JaJuan Johnson (27th pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Norris Cole, Jimmy Butler, Cory Joseph, Shelvin Mack, Bojan Bogdanovic, Kyle Singler, Chandler Parsons, Jon Leuer, Lavoy Allen, and Isaiah Thomas
2011: E'Twaun Moore (55th pick) -- getting checks in the league for reasons that are unclear to me; Isaiah Thomas taken a few picks later.
2012: Jared Sullinger (21st pick) -- NBA rotation player; players selected after include Draymond Green, Miles Plumlee, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton, Festus Ezeli, Will Barton and Kyle O'Quinn
2012: Fab Melo (22nd pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Draymond Green, Miles Plumlee, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton, Festus Ezeli, Will Barton and Kyle O'Quinn
2012: Kris Joseph (52nd pick) -- bust, out of the league
2013: Kelly Olynyk (13th pick) -- NBA rotation player; players selected after include Rudy Gobert, The Greek Freak, Denis Schroder and Gorgui Dieng
2013: Colton Iverson (48th pick) -- bust, never going to play in the league. Selected two slots after: Joffrey Lauvergne
2014: Marcus Smart (6th pick) -- NBA rotation player. Jury still out.
2014: James Young (17th pick) -- Very shaky. Celtics went out of their way to hype his upside, but he's largely looked lost and unplayable. Players selected after include Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Clint Capela, Mitch McGary, Nikola Jokic, Jordan Clarkson and Dwight Powell
2015: Terry Rozier (16th pick) -- Considering by virtually everyone outside the Cs to be a reach at this pick. Essentially has not played. Players selected after include Rashad Vaughn, Jerian Grant, Delon Wright, Bobby Portis, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Larry Nance, Jr.
2015: RJ Hunter (28th pick) -- Has shown flashes, but has barely played.
2015: Jordan Mickey (33rd pick) -- Hype train central, but has yet to see his first meaningful minute in the NBA. High hopes.
2015: Marcus Thornton (45th pick) -- Struggling in Australia; Players selected after include a variety of European players, 1 or 2 of which will materialize into NBA players, like every other year.

Takeaways:

• two starters on a .500 team
• two bench players on a .500 team
• zero all-star appearances
• zero players selected from outside North America
• outside of rookies currently on the Cs + James Young, only one other guy in the league (who rides pine)
• 12 out of 21 guys out of the league, but this doesn't account for 3 Cs rookies + Young, who may or may not make it
• Over a dozen European players taken after the Cs picks who would have been better selections
• A long list of meaningful NBA players missed, including a good number of All-Stars, high impact players, and rising stars

This is not an above average draft history. If there was even one Rondo or Jefferson in this list, it might make the sting of fairly consistent misses -- and the Cs complete lack of European scouting -- look a little better.

Not a super draft record but he's only been in the lottery for two picks (Smart and Olynyk)

[fairweatherfan]

I don't think anyone picked after #50 can be called a bust for not being in the league.  A bust implies something unusually disappointing happened, and guys picked at 50+ are out of the league within a few years far more often than not.

[ssspence]

I don't think anyone picked after #50 can be called a bust for not being in the league.  A bust implies something unusually disappointing happened, and guys picked at 50+ are out of the league within a few years far more often than not.

Call it whatever you like. The NBA draft only has 2 rounds. There are many 2nd rounders and non-drafted players who play and play well in the league. None of the guys I called busts were ever worth virtually anything.

[PhoSita]

To be honest, the Young pick doesn't bother me because it showed a willingness to take a risk on a very young player who had great physical tools.

You've got to actually give a guy like that the opportunity to play through mistakes and figure things out, though.



My concern about Ainge's drafting is my feeling that he seems to focus mainly on identifying guys who can, at the very least, contribute in small ways to a team winning games.  I get the sense he looks at a prospect and asks, OK, if this guy doesn't turn into a really good player, what do I know he can do to help the team? 

Basically, I'm confident Ainge has an eye for finding role players, at pretty much any point in the draft.

What I'm not confident about is Ainge's ability to identify guys who have what it takes to turn into more than just really nice role players.  Ainge has never drafted a really great two-way player.  The best two examples you can think of, Rondo and Big Al, had glaring weaknesses in their games that prevented them from ever making it to the level of "franchise cornerstone."

[Ilikesports17]

To be honest, the Young pick doesn't bother me because it showed a willingness to take a risk on a very young player who had great physical tools.

You've got to actually give a guy like that the opportunity to play through mistakes and figure things out, though.



My concern about Ainge's drafting is my feeling that he seems to focus mainly on identifying guys who can, at the very least, contribute in small ways to a team winning games.  I get the sense he looks at a prospect and asks, OK, if this guy doesn't turn into a really good player, what do I know he can do to help the team? 

Basically, I'm confident Ainge has an eye for finding role players, at pretty much any point in the draft.

What I'm not confident about is Ainge's ability to identify guys who have what it takes to turn into more than just really nice role players.  Ainge has never drafted a really great two-way player.  The best two examples you can think of, Rondo and Big Al, had glaring weaknesses in their games that prevented them from ever making it to the level of "franchise cornerstone."

That's a very valid concern and is mine as well, but you have to look at where he's drafted. However finding a franchise guy outside the lottery is one of the hardest things to do in this league. I mean who in the league is a franchise guy drafted outside the lottery. Probably Kawhi jimmy and green?

That's 3 in the whole league and honestly I don't think green or Leonard would be nearly the players they are today if they weren't drafted into absolutely top tier organizations

[ssspence]

Agree with a pretty good amount of this....

To be honest, the Young pick doesn't bother me because it showed a willingness to take a risk on a very young player who had great physical tools.

You've got to actually give a guy like that the opportunity to play through mistakes and figure things out, though.

Ok, I'm with you. Per the below, I applaud looking for upside. Problem is, they've flailed when they have.

And as you know, I agree that the Cs should be force-feeding this kid before his confidence is shot. Patience is one thing, but Young must be hearing the whispers by now....

I'm still praying James he can turn into a good player. BUT, at the end of the day, the pick itself looks like a miss.

My concern about Ainge's drafting is my feeling that he seems to focus mainly on identifying guys who can, at the very least, contribute in small ways to a team winning games.  I get the sense he looks at a prospect and asks, OK, if this guy doesn't turn into a really good player, what do I know he can do to help the team?

This is arguably Ainge's strength, and the Cs roster seems pretty filled with them. But he's also had key busts with this mentality as well (Giddens, JJJ) and has just flat out whiffed on others. Didn't Draymond Green look precisely like that kind of player? What is Rozier's reliable skill (all they said during the draft is: "he's really fast", basically)?

What I'm not confident about is Ainge's ability to identify guys who have what it takes to turn into more than just really nice role players.  Ainge has never drafted a really great two-way player.  The best two examples you can think of, Rondo and Big Al, had glaring weaknesses in their games that prevented them from ever making it to the level of "franchise cornerstone."

Agreed.

Last key bit: the lack of any meaningful European pick is an absolute embarrassment. The Cs have sat on the international sidelines while impact players were taken after their picks over and over again. It's hard evidence that they've not a plus organization in the NBA draft.

[BitterJim]

Ainge drafted pretty well until 2006. Here are his draft picks since 2007:

2007: Gabe Pruitt (32nd pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Marc Gasol, Josh McRoberts and Ramon Sessions
2007: Glen Davis (35th pick) -- bench contributor, now out of the league
2008: JR Giddens (30th pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include DeAndre Jordan, Mario Chalmers, Goran Dragic, Omer Asik, The Fresh Prince, Sonny Weems, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Ante Tomic, and Sasha Kuan
2008: Bill Walker (47th pick) -- bust; out of the league
2008: Semih Erden (60th pick) -- bust, out of the league
2009: Lester Hudson (58th pick) -- bust, out of the league
2010: Avery Bradley (19th pick) -- NBA rotation player; pretty good value when looking at the whole of this draft. Arguably Ainge's best pick of this time period.
2010: Luke Harangody (52nd pick) -- bust, out of the league
2011: JaJuan Johnson (27th pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Norris Cole, Jimmy Butler, Cory Joseph, Shelvin Mack, Bojan Bogdanovic, Kyle Singler, Chandler Parsons, Jon Leuer, Lavoy Allen, and Isaiah Thomas
2011: E'Twaun Moore (55th pick) -- getting checks in the league for reasons that are unclear to me; Isaiah Thomas taken a few picks later.
2012: Jared Sullinger (21st pick) -- NBA rotation player; players selected after include Draymond Green, Miles Plumlee, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton, Festus Ezeli, Will Barton and Kyle O'Quinn
2012: Fab Melo (22nd pick) -- bust, out of the league; players selected after include Draymond Green, Miles Plumlee, Jae Crowder, Khris Middleton, Festus Ezeli, Will Barton and Kyle O'Quinn
2012: Kris Joseph (52nd pick) -- bust, out of the league
2013: Kelly Olynyk (13th pick) -- NBA rotation player; players selected after include Rudy Gobert, The Greek Freak, Denis Schroder and Gorgui Dieng
2013: Colton Iverson (48th pick) -- bust, never going to play in the league. Selected two slots after: Joffrey Lauvergne
2014: Marcus Smart (6th pick) -- NBA rotation player. Jury still out.
2014: James Young (17th pick) -- Very shaky. Celtics went out of their way to hype his upside, but he's largely looked lost and unplayable. Players selected after include Gary Harris, Rodney Hood, Clint Capela, Mitch McGary, Nikola Jokic, Jordan Clarkson and Dwight Powell
2015: Terry Rozier (16th pick) -- Considering by virtually everyone outside the Cs to be a reach at this pick. Essentially has not played. Players selected after include Rashad Vaughn, Jerian Grant, Delon Wright, Bobby Portis, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Larry Nance, Jr.
2015: RJ Hunter (28th pick) -- Has shown flashes, but has barely played.
2015: Jordan Mickey (33rd pick) -- Hype train central, but has yet to see his first meaningful minute in the NBA. High hopes.
2015: Marcus Thornton (45th pick) -- Struggling in Australia; Players selected after include a variety of European players, 1 or 2 of which will materialize into NBA players, like every other year.

Takeaways:

• two starters on a .500 team
• two bench players on a .500 team
• zero all-star appearances
• zero players selected from outside North America
• outside of rookies currently on the Cs + James Young, only one other guy in the league (who rides pine)
• 12 out of 21 guys out of the league, but this doesn't account for 3 Cs rookies + Young, who may or may not make it
• Over a dozen European players taken after the Cs picks who would have been better selections
• A long list of meaningful NBA players missed, including a good number of All-Stars, high impact players, and rising stars

This is not an above average draft history. If there was even one Rondo or Jefferson in this list, it might make the sting of fairly consistent misses -- and the Cs complete lack of European scouting -- look a little better.

Is Turkey now part of North America?

[loco_91]

Young was a miss, but it isn't Hood that Ainge missed. It was Clint Capela. Super-athletic 7-footers don't grow on trees, and I can't believe he slid all the way down to the Rockets.

Hood might be scoring buckets, but he's still bad on D (in college he was absolutely awful), and he's also 3 years older than Young. He just doesn't have much upside - at #16 you don't draft guys who whose upside is as a sparkplug off the bench.

[KG Living Legend]

 Yes. It does. Young=Garbage

exactly the word used to describe bradley early on. again, why the rush to judgement? and even if young does not pan out, it was a swing for the fences by ainge. at that draft spot i glad ainge took a chance in stead of playing it safe.

 I understand the swing for the fences argument.

 However Young can't dribble, can't drive, can't finish, looks lost on Defense all the time.

 He's a spot up shooter who's shooting has been ok to poor.

 Avery came in an animal on defense, and I would prefer we move Avery and upgrade with all his limitations.